I think Anne is right. You do see it too many times here where one time there is complete compassion and the next it is ridiculing or just making off comments.

I think it is fair to say that these "situations" upset us all but unfortunately it is what it is. It isn't going to get anyone anywhere by talking about how angry it makes us. This is a person who actually came on here seeking advice and help from our members with experience.

We talk about how shameful it is to see so many dogs in the pound, auctions or at rescues.. here is our chance to help one yorkie owner. To help educate her and if we do well she may be able to educate her brother, who may in turn educate the next person down the line. Again, its too late to talk about the what ifs and how angry we are.. We can either chose to help guide her or we can move along to another post.

ON the Attack with Christianity?? Really? Re Read my post!! I did Not Attack in the name of Christ... I simply believe that You all As Breeders need to "walk the walk" as you say....ALLLLLL ya'lls posts talk about prayer and God, but then turn and Attacked ME!
All I asked for was Help!! WOW....
Ok I get it, I am out Ladies... Jesus Did not defend himself when fasely accussed, nor will I. This Woman, will exit as Gracefully as I can...

I do think there is more compassion in some cases, I think it is the way you come across with your wording. The op was lashing out at Addicted in her 2nd post, I personally think she/he probably started this thread to start a ruckus, happens all the time:thumbdown If she/he is for real I just hope that that baby will be ok. With the weights being what they are, it should be fine. :animal-pa

Ok this is long.. but from my heart...
 

Mary I know you have been.. I also know your a respected breeder.. I love respected breeders...

But I just googled the population of the United States of America and I got what was posted for the year 2007 and it says.. 301,139,950 people..

Now I did not do Canada.. although we all know Canada has a much larger area of land, but much much less population.. that is North America..
Not counting the rest of the world..

So to see one of these posts a week on the largest yorkie forum I know of.. I do not think that is really that many.. looking at it in this manner..
If every single person that came here was treated the same.. one way or the other it would not be bad.. but we raise our yorkies with more consistancy then we do on this fourm I guess it what I am really trying to say here..

I had a litter last spring as many know.. by day 20 I lost three of a litter of 4, I was heartbroken and spent a fortune trying to save those babies.. I have tube fed before and did it.. I again had a litter in December and out of a litter of 4, I lost two, the first one I could not get out, she was alive and I failed.. she died on the way to the vet, two girls were born right away, and taking a vets advice I just waited but refused to go home.. I did not come here for good advice.. I could not take being put down and I stayed at the vets another 4 hours waiting until the vet finally decided to do another xray.. she found that my girl had to have a c section right away.. baby came down on horn and began going up the other horn.. baby was dead..
I was yet again devestated.. I cried and cried.. I blamed myself for not knowing enough of what to do.. It was my fault I could not get that baby out..
I did not come here.. maybe some one would have said anne get that baby out by c section right away.. others may have said different.. But my loss was just as upsetting as a show breeding having a tough time.. non the less my experiences worrying about my yorkies are no smaller then another breeders.. my girl was given subq fluids starting on day three as we almost lost her.. for almost three weeks my husband and myself worked shift work not leaving her and the babies alone for a minute..
But this does not give me the right to come on this forum and hurt some one else due to my own hurts and losing babies.. I lost 5 babies out of 8 a half a year apart..does that make me rude.. or to post that I do not want to post for I have had enough of my own stuff..
Then I ask why come on here.. why go to those threads.. Mary I am only asking.. for I never come here much asking for help.. in fact I am not sure how much I would even get.. so I just do not..
That is a pure shame.. for I am not going to stop breeding because I am afraid to ask a good breeder some questions.. what I know I have learned alone.. yes alone and am proud of what I have learned..
So I do hope you and others understand why I get so upset when people hurt others.. do I get angry sometimes.. for sure I do.. I am human.. am I afraid to ask many breeders and post much about a whelping.. you bet I am.. for if I am overwhelmed with stress of my yorkie, or babies.. I sure do not want or need to be belittled..



anne

I understand the reluctance of some people asking questions, being afraid of being attacked. And I can't explain what one person says that may trigger my impatience and why another doesn't. I usually don't answer someone's post until I check how long they've been a member and their past posts. It usually gives me insight as to where they are coming from. Are they a lurker and all of a sudden an oops happened and they only speak up when they're in trouble. Maybe I'm a bit rigid in my way of thinking; but if they've been on awhile they've been reading and should have learned something from their reading and should be asking questions. If they are brand new and in trouble my only concern is for the yorkie.

There's a young lady on YT came on here a couple of years ago, planned to breed, read everything and studied everything she could get her hands on. She just had a litter, she was prepared, but knew she might get in trouble and would not recognize the signs and asked for # if she should get in trouble. My gosh she'd call me and already knew the answers but needed reassurance.

You all should check out Yahoo Answers, the dog section to be exact, there are TONS of questions about irresponsible breeding questions every 5 minutes, it seems. It's a lot worse, that's why I don't bother to open my big mouth on there, because the "trolls" get mad and will report all your answers & our questions too...kinda pissed about it!!!

Thank you mary, I really think what it is in many cases is the difference in how the first post on a certain thread is said. How it is said and what they are asking for.. Is all I can see..

But if a person is for real.. and yes sometimes we never know this.. but thinking they are real.. first we must think.. they are nervous, upset, scared, and they just blurt out things they might not even be thinking is logical or not.

I know I had a hard time getting papers from a breeder.. wanting more money for the papers after I had my girl.. when she popped on my msn chat to tell me this.. my typing was oh so bad.. I was replying to her and believe me.. when I look at what I saved today.. I looked like an idiot.. but I was shocked.. I was angry, I was so totally shaking at that moment, I was thinking but was not even typing the whole words..just as an example..

I am saying this girl for an example, although she loves her brother, feels the need to take care of this yorkie and is scared to death of the what if's.. and we all say, even you said your here for the yorkie.. but if the yorkie dies giving birth due to a person coming to the largest yorkie forum around and gets no help.. then who looses here.. not the human.. but the yorkie..if that makes sense..

I also know that trolls makes it harder for a good breeder to trust then..but this person was just asking for help.. she could have been given a link like ladymom gave her..

Ya know you and others think there is so so much of this kind of irresponsible people, and there really is, and sometimes I get upset also.. but seeing others hurt or attacked for lack of a better word but it is the word used all the time.. so will use it now also..

Like the first post.. I never care who makes the post.. it is how it is said.. there is a way of asking a person questions.. like this person saying the dog weas bred 50 times.. well I do not know but I have yet to find a stud that over those vital days a female will accept the male do they want to do it 50 times.. so right away I did not take that as a serious point.. I thought this is what her brother said to her.. and since she does not breed.. she innocently put that down in print.. but then the first poster jumps in.. once a first poster comes in.. from what I see is .,.. if it is a good post.. it gets followed.. if it is a sarcastic or nasty post then again others follow..
like dee coming on.. I know she is devestated at what she was through with her girl.. but at the same time.. why even post.. If I were that upset over my girl I would not come to yt to look for a thread that would P*ss me off..

I understand how Dee is feeling.. but does this new person that comes here and asks for help know what she has been through.. maybe she should have taken the time to post what happened.. maybe she could have helped this person so the female she is caring for does not go through this.. and what signs to look for.. what not to do.. I know Dee made a thread.. does this person know a thread was made by Dee and to look for it.. or could she just be a person that now has a pregnant yorkie to look after and really just wanted to know where to look for help..or to have some one coach her through this time. that knows more then she does right now..

I do appreciate that fact that you did not get upset with me.. I hear your frustrations.. nothing worse then helping some one to find out it is a troll.. how sad is this.. but it is not always easy right away to know a troll or a person really needing help..Good idea tho I will check to see how long they have been a member also..again how do we really know..

anne

Another tome, sorry for the length!
 

I am seeing this thread in an entirely different light. I see the original post where the situation is spelled out -- brother allowed his year old dogs to mate "not less than 50 times over 3-4 days" and she herself calls his actions “innocent ignorance.” Then the first reply only asks a question? How did he not know his male would "know how" if he watched them tie over 50 times? Then the OP rants and calls that person rude. Others voice their concerns POLITELY, if a little frustrated, but no name calling and she rants and raves while throwing in some "religion." That is not a person looking for help -- it is someone looking for an easy penance.

It is really not in anyone's best interest to come "pat people on the poopoo" when they screw up. You very politely tell them what they should have done and then offer some ideas to help. Looks like that was what was done in this thread. It would be irresponsible to be too nice about the "accidents happen" mentality -- that just gives others the idea that it is really not such a bad thing after all. She says "we tried to keep them separate but the male was howling and such." What responsible pet owner has not had to endure sleepless nights as a male and female tried valiantly to get together or at least make their wishes known? How many have had to put their life on hold to make SURE the male and female were not allowed to tie? That is what you do when you truly care about them not breeding.

She asked if the female was going to be okay? Well, who knows? She has been abused or at the very least neglected, so I am guessing her health is in peril. She needs medical attention sooner rather than later. She says this happened “around 6/18-6/21.” Yet she says, “I Assume she is pregnant, I will take her to the vet in the Very near future.” Wondering why vet opinion was not sought previously or at least the question asked here but maybe the brother just ‘fessed up recently?

The OP seems more intent on telling us what a “Good Christian Woman” she is and that she is “an intelligent woman” than truly finding answers and all of this after casting aspersions on the breeders of YT. She brought up BYB and puppy mills, insinuated the breeders here were no better using the “call a spade a spade” slam. Why is no one outraged by the accusations flung at the breeders -- the very breeders that took time to help me when I lost the mother of my last litter; the very breeders that are helping others in the same boat now? I think these breeders held their tongues well and mostly offered help even though they were rightly frustrated with the circumstances of the thread.

The OP said, “Things Happen Ladies, it does NOT make us irresponsible and dumb.” No one called them dumb but how can anyone say it was not irresponsible? She herself called her brother’s actions “innocent ignorance!” You can’t clean that all up and say, “it’s okay, you tried but daggone it, you just could not prevent “no less than 50 ties” after all, who likes hearing howling and such?” You have to, in the words of this OP – “call a spade a spade.” When you (or the person you are speaking for) screw up, sometimes you have to suck it up, act like you have a little regret for what was done, and then take the advice to try to fix what was wrong. Doesn’t help anyone to say, “you all are screwed up yourself and I am going home!” Better to take a lump or two with the good experience offered and try to make the best of a bad situation.

I studied for 2 years and thought I was doing everything right and responsible when I bred my two. I still lost my girl. I was told there was one thing I could have done to prevent it. Give her the oxy shot after her births to ENSURE every last bit of placenta was expelled. It hurt like crazy to hear that I had missed something that could have saved her life. I could have ranted and called the breeder rude for laying some of the blame on me. But the truth is, if there was a way to prevent it – then the blame is with me. From the minute you do not spay or neuter them at an appropriate age, you take the blame for anything that goes wrong that could have been prevented. I will NEVER forget that lesson. If I ever breed again, it will be with more study and more preparation. I may still make a mistake and it will still be my fault if something goes wrong as a result of it. Being a Christian also means taking responsibility, being a good steward for our pets as Mardelin said, and working diligently on their behalf as a good pet owner/citizen.

OP -- Since you run a Ministry, maybe this will help make a point that you will take onboard. Think of the experienced breeders like the Watchman of Ezekiel 33. The watchman was to give warning, and if he did not, the wicked will die but the watchman will be held accountable for his blood. But, if the watchman warns the wicked to turn from his wicked ways and he doesn’t do it, he will still die for his sin, but the watchman will be saved. That is the way I look at it. If you know someone is doing wrong, or belittling the wrong that another has done, and you know better, you need to address it, warn of the consequences. It is your duty. To stand by, say nothing is to tacitly approve and you will be just as wrong. So, the breeders let you, and every other reader that might need to hear it, know this was irresponsible (maybe not an unforgivable sin but a wrong that needs to be warned against). They did their Christian duty. That parable can be used in so many situations in life. It is never right to stand by and ignore a wrong or worse yet, help to justify it.

I also agree with the poster that said – it is not just “how we say what we say,” but also “how we interpret what we read.” I think everyone’s heart is in the right place and the main focus is on what is best for the two one-year-old Yorkies that undoubtedly will soon be parents. If pride can be laid aside long enough to take onboard some of the advice offered, the outcome may be improved. Best of luck on that count! Seek a vet opinion as soon as possible. There are many health varibles that should be taken into account before breeding and maybe those can be reviewed now. At least if a dangerous condition is identified, you could prepare for potential problems. Wish the best for the young parents-to-be. Hope you will stay and learn all you can about whelping and raising a litter!

Well said Anne

Amazing, and you are no longer a Newbie breeder...you now understand it all.

"pat people on the poopoo" :D I enjoyed reading that post but that quote really got me giggling like a little schoolgirl! I am going to have to use that one!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Do we smell a hint of defensiveness here??!
 

I saw this post the other day when it had 0 responses...I dared not post anything for fear of getting :banned:!! Poor addicted got attacked from the op for trying to help.:whatraise

All I can say to the op is this fm YT Rules & Guidelines:

14. If you post a thread or post stating you will leave YorkieTalk, your post or thread will be deleted and your account will be permanently disabled. We do not feel it benefits anyone to have these kind of threads here on YorkieTalk. Discussion of other Yorkie forums may also lead to suspension or banning of your YorkieTalk account.

The main priority here at YorkieTalk is our Yorkshire Terrier community. Posts that do not better this community are unwelcome. Before you make a "controversial" post or a post you know that may cause problems, think about what you are writing. Is your post going to be helpful to anyone and is it bettering this communty? If not, then don't post it!

From the beginning, I got a bad feeling about your post...well, all your posts just proves it. Thanks. I pray that the baby girl has a safe & easy whelping.

I totally agree, but was afraid to say anything that the op totally attacked the first respondant who was trying to help her! That put a bad taste in my mouth from the get go. From there on seemed very defensive...

I came to the same conclusion when I saw her reply to the first poster who responded. She jumped all over her and that was just not right and I can see where it would automatically make other breeders defensive.

I just want to add a few things and it is not nice... I am a Christian myself and I am embarassed that you have used the Lord to justify and explain your actions. Stand up for what has happened and accept the blame.
And the other thing is... how can an intelligent person be surprised when two unaltered dogs breed? Seriously, that is just common sense. An accident is something that is out of your control, or out of your brother's control. This was no accident, it was negligence. Sorry, but I am just being honest.

Yes, I was attacked for no reason at all. I honestly wanted to say something back, but didn't want it to get out of control and I didn't want to get banned, so I bit my tongue. I just found it weird how she said her brother didn't know his male knew how to do it when he knew his male tied that many times with the female. Shouldn't he have stopped it once he knew of the first tie?

Also, I honestly thought it wasn't right that she used the Lord's name in this situation. Kind of reminds me of the television show, "Operation Repo", when a man's car was getting repo'd and he was using the Lord's name, saying it was the Lord's car... and calling the repoman the devil. He was the one who defaulted on his car payments!

Anyways, I'm going to stay out of this from now on. Goodluck to the OP!

I said I wanted to stay out of this, but now when I think of it, there's someone in need of help here and even if we don't like the situation, we gotta help the poor yorkie girl in need. I don't want this thread to go off topic.... so... Anyone out there that is willing to help her, please do. Things has happened already, all we can do is go forward.

To the OP: have you taken her to the vet yet?

I don't have anything to add to the situation, but I wanted to say that you handled a difficult situation with class and self-control. :thumbup:

So, for what it's worth coming from me: :cheer: ( I just love this little cheerleader! LOL)

Thank you. I try.

Since the OP is no longer a member of YT I just want to say that I don't think anyone said anything that the OP should have considered so offensive that she had to leave. Sometimes no matter how we word things people will take offense. Personally I found her opening message pretty shocking myself and many of you echoed my thoughts.

In case the OP can still read this thread. I hope your girl will be fine. Please do lots of research on whelping. There are many people on YT that are willing to help you with the whelping. Please come back if you need to. Just think of the welfare of the little momma and please put your hard feelings behind you. We really do care what happens to these precious little ones. I pray everything works out.

Oh my, I didn't know she wasn't a member anymore. Yes, she was very defensive from the get-go, but it's unfortunate that we lose a member that was in need of help. I will pray for her and the female.

Mardelin -- Thank you, that means a lot coming from you.
P.S. I just adopted a little 1 day old cleft palate baby girl Yorkie. Learned to tube feed today. Keep her in your prayers!

Justlucas1 -- Sorry you felt the need to "take your football and go home" but by chance that you are still reading, please take that girl to the vet as soon as you can. Read through the breeding section and see what information might help you over the next few months. Believe me, there is more information here than a dozen books I have bought. Don't hesitate to reach out to any of the breeders if you run into a situation that you are unsure of. I will be glad to help you. If I don't know the answer and don't know where to find it, I will refer you to one of the more experienced breeders. Mardelin, Sugar's mom (Dee), Amazing Yorkies, Breny, Topknot, Brooklyn, and others that I know I should also list ... are always ready to help!

So, you enjoyed hand raising a litter, huh?;)

With what you've endured over the recent past, you are a braver woman than I. Have you been communicating with Breny, she's done this with success.

Will keep that new baby in my prayers, she's in good hands.

I am glad I was out of town for the majority of this thread. :shocked7q All a bit over the top, if you ask me. The way situation was presented and the manner in which the OP responded is so outlandish that I find it VERY hard to take any of it seriously. :scratchhe And then to throw Christianity into the mix...c'mon, get real! Then of course, the ever present ongoing lectures trying to dictate how other people should have responded to her are even MORE ridiculous...and given all else, that, my friends, is saying something! :tongue:

Threads like this make me just shake my head in amazement and wonder how priorities got so reversed and mixed up! :confuse2:

It was a crazy post. Oh well, she's no longer on the board, evidently her feelings were more important than the lil girl's health.

Also if she's reading this she still can have the bitch taken in and spayed it's not too late :)

Donna Bird