I have to admit when i first read the closed thread I read it to fast and got offended then I went back and reread it and saw what the OP was trying to say and was no longer offended. I am not a donating member either but I have no problems with those who do that being said I am not a breeder either. I sincerely wish I had found YT earlier but would not take a show dog price for Laddy now. And Lolita is a rescue but I feel the same about her. If in the future, and I hope its years down the road I lose one of my precious babies, I definately will be doing my very best to talk to a reputable show breeder in hopes of getting my next baby. I also have been called rude but honestly didn't mean to offend anyone. I am new at Yorkie ownership but in the short time we have had ours have fallen totally and completely in love with not only them but the breed itself. They are magnificent show dogs and pets. (the breed I mean about the show dog part) to clarify lol. Mine are pets but beautiful to me.

People are always commenting about why all the reputable breeders are leaving, and I think Donna was just giving her answer as to why. It doesn't seem like the breeders are ever allowed to "vent". The rest of us seem to be able to have threads on what makes us frustrated, and other members are usually so supportive, but when a breeder does it, so many of the non-breeders really give them a hard time.

Well, since I'm the one doing most of the posting, I guess I'm doing the "attacking." Apparently "attacking" means "not in 100% agreement."

I love learning from other people and I love the idea that knowledgable people will stick around YT. I know that not all forums are for everyone. While this is not exactly the same, I can't stand forums where people don't use good grammar, for instance. I just accept that some places aren't for me, and some places are happy not to have me. I certainly hope that people who know a lot about yorkies would stay here, but I am not sure what's missing. Obviously some people agree and some people disagree. Isn't that what happens in a public forum?

Honestly? The topics I would love to discuss would have me banned so you see I do have tact and do say things politically correct.
Whether or not I asked to stop the selling of puppies on this forum would be a most unpopular request so therefore I will leave it alone but I do disagree with it but I respect YT and how they run their forum.
I'm just a blunt person but use tact in being blunt and really it's not my intentions for it to come off rude it's just the passion I have for this breed :)
Find threads that I've posted or posts I've posted and you will get a feel for the type of person and the passion I have for this breed. I will admit I was rude once but most of the time I'm tactful.
Donna

JoshieBoy has managed that magical tact thing I am working on. This is what I meant to say. :thumbup:

how does the saying go? with great power comes great responsibility?

breeders have power over people(people who want to purchase yorkies). like they can tell me they will not sell me a dog because they don't think i am right/capable of owning a dog.

it is the same with rescues. they have the power to deny something people want. (the adoption of animals)

so i think it is important for them to be careful the way they say things. i think MORE people are listening when a breeder has something to say.

gosh, i post here all the time and get ignored most of the time :D you think i would have given up by now!!!!!!

I think people have to understand that differing with someone's opinion is not bashing them. Saying what you feel is ethical and safe breeding, even if it is opposite of what someone else is doing, is not bashing them. So many times in threads where alternative opinions are offered, many jump to the defense and say, "don't be rude,don't jump on that person, don't degrade, etc....."

People need to be able to offer differing opinions. Why would anyone want information to stand unchallenged? Sometimes a post may not be all saccharine and sweet because the poster feels strongly about correcting a perception before too many others think the practices are appropriate.

We have to be able to debate some issues. Otherwise, what is the use of such an informative source? Threads that are closed, are usually closed, not because the experienced breeder breeched protocol, but because others jump on the bandwagon to defend the right of the controversial breeder to continue with their practices in ways that are inflammatory, insulting, or accusatory.

I continue to learn daily. I see others contemplating breeding coming to YT daily too. If some of these threads are allowed to go unchallenged, what are the new breeders to think? What are they going to learn? I want to hear from as many sources as possible. We are all mature enough to decide who we want to choose for an information resource. But if only one opinion is allowed to stand, what choices will be available?

I thank the experienced breeders that care enough about the Yorkshire Terrier, to keep coming back and offering advice, correcting misperceptions, and sometimes enduring insults to protect the future of the breed. It is a dedication to purpose that I respect and appreciate. So to Brooklyn, Mardelin, Lorraine, Nancy, and I know I am missing several others.... but thanks to all of you! Please keep doing what you do -- there are a lot of us soaking it up like a sponge!

I don't plan on leaving YT as I do enjoy the showing section alot and the grooming section! Trust me I'm the same in person as I am here...I give the same opinions in person as I would here. And to be honest I can be judgemental especially when it comes to breeding unethically but I guess that is a character flaw I'll just have to live with LOL...there is another thing I always tell people, you will either like me or you won't and if you don't it doesn't hurt my feelings because we can't like everyone LOL...I do try and say things politically correct because I work with the public and well you gotta have it sometimes ;) AND I do really sit on my hands and bite my tongue A LOT LOL

Donna

I appreciate the reputable breeders on here and there opinions. I can understand why the thread got closed. If anyone on the forum did a thread about why they didnt donate it would be closed so why should it be any different if the breeder was a reputable breeder or just a pet owner? I think the mods here do a very good job and that its not easy

Well, that was a great post, but I've got to tell you it was strange seeing my name posted with the others. A couple of years ago, I was just like you, and was one of those sponges!

I've always thought of you as being very diplomatic and fair-minded in your responses concerning controversial subjects here and never in an attacking manner.

Aaaaah, there's that tact working again! ;)

By no means do I think she was attacking me in the least...she was giving her opinions as I was and actually done tactfully and a healthy debate :) I never once thought she was attacking me :)

Again, I don't plan on going anywhere unless YT has other plans which I don't think they do because I do respect this forum not always agree but respect it. :)

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

I wanted to say one more thing and its just MO I think professionals of all kinds sometimes come off as arrogant and rude when giving advice. I am a retired cosmetologist and I have told people how they are hurting their hair with colors, perms and shampoos that they by in local chains and been called a snob by some saying they cannot afford to by professional products. I was like the breeders trying to give advice about what they have studied, learned, and know, was only trying to help my clients by giving them my professional advice. If we all put ourselves in one anothers shoes I think we would do less fighting.:rolleyes: JMO. Now I will shut up.

I guess I see it a little differently because part of the ethics of breeding involves not advertising. So if they are donating to a site that allows advertising, it might conflict with their ethics.

Thanks. Your experience may not be in as many years as some (I could not tell), but I have appreciated the content of your posts just the same.

I don't think giving your professional opinion is rude or arrogant it's the profession you are in and you are just trying to help :) I guess sometimes they just can't take honest advice...I'd rather be truthful than sugar coat it :)

Donna

And I can't go against my ethics and honestly why would anyone want me too and I don't think anyone would want me to ask them to go against theirs :)

Great post!!! Thank you!

I see your point exactly

Lol, a couple of major differences are I've never owned a female dog, and I've never seen a puppy being born. :D

If someone said that was the reason they didn't donate, I would understand. There were several reasons listed, none of them flattering, and none of them mentioned advertising ethics.

Personally, I feel that if you go to a site regularly, as a rule of thumb, you should donate. If the board really bothers you, then don't go. I'm not saying this applies to everyone 100% of the time. Different people have different financial situations, etc. But I think it's nice to try.

Also, there's always the saying, Love It, Leave It, or Change It. If someone loves YT but has a very serious problem with some aspect of it, I think it would be worth it to suggest changes. This is just off the top of my head, but couldn't people lobby to only make puppy sales allowable from YTCA members? Or perhaps that wouldn't work if advertising is not allowed.

Given that there have been some very ugly threads involving disputes over yorkies sold here, I would see that as a legitimate possibility.

I have to admit I'm really curious about what these super controversial topics are... any chance you'd PM me? :D

I agree with you but even if she gave a reason why she didnt donate it still would have been closed because its negative towards the site. I can see the dilema on all sides

I hope it's ok to paste a post from a closed thread, but her first sentence was:
I think these are all valid ethical concerns.

I think it's pretty easy.

"I would love to donate to YT, but unfortunately, the ethics code of YTCA does not permit me to donate to any type of organization, website or otherwise, that advertises yorkies. The End."

We have talked to admin about it and they have decided to stay with the advertising. YTCA members would never advertise here or elsewhere, it's forbidden, but you have to remember they are not in the puppy selling business. There really is a difference between selling a dog and placing a dog. I would like to see the "featured breeders" section done a way with too. I thought that that meant they came highly recomended and had passed certain tests and requirements.