Can anyone help? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Woogie Man · 02-19-2009, 05:29 PM

My Scarlett had her first litter late Tuesday night, 2 boys and 3 girls. It was a scary whelp as the first baby came out feet first with no sac. I grabbed the feet and tried to pull but she relaxed her contractions and the baby went back up. I called the emergency vet and told them we were coming. I knew that baby was lost but didn't want to lose the whole litter or possibly even Scarlett. I rushed to get dressed and my wife stayed with her. While I was getting dressed, she had another contraction and the feet were presented again. My wife grabbed the feet but couldn't get the baby out. Then Scarlett contracted again and this time the baby's hips came out and my wife was able to pull him on out. We were amazed but the baby was alive! Whew! So we called the vet and let him know we would be staying home to finish the whelping. O.K., now on to the problem. The third baby born, a little girl, has mis-aligned rear legs. Her feet point inward about 30 degrees and her toes are curling under some. I took her to the vet today, an orthopedic specialist. We discussed wrapping the legs to straighten them but he was afraid of the joint setting crooked. He recommended instead to do physical therapy on her. I can easily align her legs and feet with no distress from her but am unsure that this will really fix the problem. I know we have a small window of opportunity before the bones set so I want to make sure we don't blow it. The vet explained that this joint (from the hock down to the foot) is more tendon and cartelidge than bone and feels therapy is the way to go for now. He did tell me, however, that in his 40 years of practice he's never seen this particular problem. I have another appointment in 2 weeks. He said he would do more research in the meantime to see if he can find out more. So my question is: does anyone here have any experience with this specific problem? If so, I would greatly appreciate any insight you may have. I haven't researched this yet and will be looking around tonight but any first-hand experience would be wonderful. Thanks in advance....Jim

Wylie's Mom · 02-19-2009, 05:46 PM

Oh Jim...as I was reading the first part of the post, I was so worried you lost a pup. I'm so relieved you didn't

. I don't any advice whatsoever (except, maybe calling a vet hospital for a consult w/ an animal physical therapist?), but just wanted to post that I'll be keeping this little girl in my thoughts. Keep us posted on her and hang in there.

clm56 · 02-19-2009, 05:49 PM

~I have not had any experience in anything like this and hope everything works out for the little puppy. I'll be saying a prayer. Please keep us posted as to the outcome.

morgan111 · 02-19-2009, 05:54 PM

hi not sure if my problem is the same but we had a litter 3 years ago and our darling little gracie was born with what they called flipper back legs they were backwards ,the vet wasnt sure what ro do either so because she was only 1oz at birth we decided to weight till she was a bit older 2-3 weeks and look then as she needed care around the clock .surprisin the one leg turned around but the right one never has ,i will take a picture of her today and see if i have any from when she was born .she is now going to be 4 soon and 3lbs of pure dynomite she only uses three legs but boy the others have a hard time catchin her .the only think she can not due is go down the stairs she climbs up d

Woogie Man · 02-19-2009, 05:59 PM

Thanks, Ann. We surely dodged a bullet with the first boy. Let me tell you, that'll get your adrenaline going! As for the little girl, she is very healthy and doing fine except for her obvious problem. The vet I saw isn't my regular vet. He is THE guy to see in this area for orthopedics. I had to get a referral just to see him. I am hopeful though, as her left foot has straightened out some since birth. Even if I can't get her to 100%, I at least want her to have a good quality of life. I've told you about my Bijou so you can imagine my dread when I first saw this little girl. I can't find anything online about this specific problem so for now will just go with the PT. There is a great clinic in Mandeville, LA that I may check with but am unsure if they have any experience with this either. I'm hoping there's a YT'er out there that can help. I will post updates as it may be helpful to someone else if they have the same misfortune.

my2boyz · 02-19-2009, 06:04 PM

Hi Jim...I'm sorry to hear about the baby girl's foot and I hope she will be o.k. with some therapy.

Let me tell you our story...not a Yorkie but a baby duck. We used to take the duck eggs from the river bank and hatch them out so they were safe, they we would return the babies to the water once they were big enough to make it on their own.

So, one of the baby ducks was born with a foot much like you described...crooked leg, foot turned under and to the inside. My husband decided to make a splint for his leg so he made it out of a straw...just split it down the side and slide it over the leg...it's enough support to keep the leg straigt, or at least it was on the duck. He also made a little sandal of sorts...he made it the shape of the duck's foot, it was heavy cardboard so it had a little weight to it. We would straighten out foot, lay the sandal under his toes and tape it in place. We had to change it once a day so we would stretch his little foot and work it a bit each time we took the cardboard off...then we would replace his sandal. We did this for a couple of weeks and it really helped him...he was able to live and swim normally.

Maybe something like that would help your little girl as long as the mother didn't bother it.

Woogie Man · 02-19-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgan111

hi not sure if my problem is the same but we had a litter 3 years ago and our darling little gracie was born with what they called flipper back legs they were backwards ,the vet wasnt sure what ro do either so because she was only 1oz at birth we decided to weight till she was a bit older 2-3 weeks and look then as she needed care around the clock .surprisin the one leg turned around but the right one never has ,i will take a picture of her today and see if i have any from when she was born .she is now going to be 4 soon and 3lbs of pure dynomite she only uses three legs but boy the others have a hard time catchin her .the only think she can not due is go down the stairs she climbs up d

Thank you. That would be great to see a photo and compare with my pup. To give a kind of visual, she looks to be 'pigeon-toed' and her feet up near the toes curl under some. The vet is sure it's only the hock joint and there's no problem farther up around the stifle. She is small (3.8 ounces) but not ultra-tiny and has good vigor and is nursing well. For now, I'll be doing the PT several times a day and watching her progress closely.

Woogie Man · 02-19-2009, 06:12 PM

Great story about the duck. I've considered trying a taping method, possibly with some wire as a re-enforcement but will try the PT for a little bit. If I don't see some positive result fairly quickly, I'll have to try something else. The vet wasn't able to give me a firm time for when the bones really begin to set, but I'm sure we have no more than maybe 3 weeks to get this resolved.

Woogie Man · 02-19-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clm56

~I have not had any experience in anything like this and hope everything works out for the little puppy. I'll be saying a prayer. Please keep us posted as to the outcome.

Thank you very much. I'm saying my prayers for her, too. It would be heartbreaking to have her go through life in this condition.

Wylie's Mom · 02-19-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Thanks, Ann. We surely dodged a bullet with the first boy. Let me tell you, that'll get your adrenaline going! As for the little girl, she is very healthy and doing fine except for her obvious problem. The vet I saw isn't my regular vet. He is THE guy to see in this area for orthopedics. I had to get a referral just to see him. I am hopeful though, as her left foot has straightened out some since birth. Even if I can't get her to 100%, I at least want her to have a good quality of life. I've told you about my Bijou so you can imagine my dread when I first saw this little girl. I can't find anything online about this specific problem so for now will just go with the PT. There is a great clinic in Mandeville, LA that I may check with but am unsure if they have any experience with this either. I'm hoping there's a YT'er out there that can help. I will post updates as it may be helpful to someone else if they have the same misfortune.

It got my adrenaline going (my heart sped up!) just reading it bc I was thinking "oh no!" as I was reading it and was worried about the outcome. Funny you mentioned Bijou bc the second I read about the pup's legs, I thought of your Bijou and her turned legs. While I'm just heartbroken for your pup, the fact that you have Bijou leaves me hopeful that you already have the background to help this baby. That is so wonderful that you've already seen a bit of improvement too!

Woogie Man · 02-19-2009, 06:34 PM

It's because of Bijou that I'm not wasting any time jumping on this. With her, the vet saw her at 3 days old but wanted to wait since they couldn't get a good x-ray on such a young pup. Not knowing any better at the time, I went along with this. Well, they x-rayed her at 6 weeks and told me there was nothing that could be done since the bones had set. Needless to say, she is my EX vet. These days, I don't have a lot of trust in vets but do feel that this guy is very competent. Still, I won't blindly follow his recommendations since this case is time sensitive.

chattiesmom · 02-19-2009, 06:54 PM

I don't have any "yorkie experience", but I do have Miniature Horse expreience. Crooked legs is quite common in new born miniatures. Many times they need to be splinted -- but the risk is damage to soft tissue. We only had to splint one mini - my precious little Quincy. The splints worked, but we did have minor soft tissue damage which healed once the splints were off.

I truly believe that physical therapy will be successful IF you are diligent and continue the therapy/massage as directed by the vet or as frequently as possible. I am a firm believer in giving the body the tools to heal itself, in this case therapy/massage.

chattiesmom · 02-19-2009, 06:55 PM

I entirely forgot to congratulate you on your new litter. Can't wait to see pics

Woogie Man · 02-19-2009, 07:10 PM

I started working her legs within hours after she was born. I surely hope the PT works as there just isn't much to work with on a newborn Yorkie's legs. And, as the vet said, it's mostly cartilage, tendon and muscle. She does show some good strength, though. You should see her when I apply upward pressure from her foot. She REALLY pushes back LOL. I was surprised she even had the pups when she did. She was only on day 59 from her only tie but all the babies seem full term. I'll try to get some pics soon but have been too caught up in dealing with the little girl to get any pics yet. The pups all look generic at this point, but Scarlett and Roger, the Dad, are both gorgeous and are the same type so I'm hopeful for some very nice pups.

piptickle · 02-20-2009, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I started working her legs within hours after she was born. I surely hope the PT works as there just isn't much to work with on a newborn Yorkie's legs. And, as the vet said, it's mostly cartilage, tendon and muscle. She does show some good strength, though. You should see her when I apply upward pressure from her foot. She REALLY pushes back LOL. I was surprised she even had the pups when she did. She was only on day 59 from her only tie but all the babies seem full term. I'll try to get some pics soon but have been too caught up in dealing with the little girl to get any pics yet. The pups all look generic at this point, but Scarlett and Roger, the Dad, are both gorgeous and are the same type so I'm hopeful for some very nice pups.

My first skin daughter was born with her feet pointing up-almost touching her legs

I was so shocked and thought for sure she would need surgery but the dox told me not to worry and showed me how to do physio on them. It took a good few weeks but they straightened out. They said it was because she had such long legs she had been lying funny in the womb and had her feet tucked under my ribs! The little stinker

I'm sure your girl will be fine with you working so hard on her!

02-19-2009, 05:29 PM	#1
Woogie Man Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,564	Can anyone help? My Scarlett had her first litter late Tuesday night, 2 boys and 3 girls. It was a scary whelp as the first baby came out feet first with no sac. I grabbed the feet and tried to pull but she relaxed her contractions and the baby went back up. I called the emergency vet and told them we were coming. I knew that baby was lost but didn't want to lose the whole litter or possibly even Scarlett. I rushed to get dressed and my wife stayed with her. While I was getting dressed, she had another contraction and the feet were presented again. My wife grabbed the feet but couldn't get the baby out. Then Scarlett contracted again and this time the baby's hips came out and my wife was able to pull him on out. We were amazed but the baby was alive! Whew! So we called the vet and let him know we would be staying home to finish the whelping. O.K., now on to the problem. The third baby born, a little girl, has mis-aligned rear legs. Her feet point inward about 30 degrees and her toes are curling under some. I took her to the vet today, an orthopedic specialist. We discussed wrapping the legs to straighten them but he was afraid of the joint setting crooked. He recommended instead to do physical therapy on her. I can easily align her legs and feet with no distress from her but am unsure that this will really fix the problem. I know we have a small window of opportunity before the bones set so I want to make sure we don't blow it. The vet explained that this joint (from the hock down to the foot) is more tendon and cartelidge than bone and feels therapy is the way to go for now. He did tell me, however, that in his 40 years of practice he's never seen this particular problem. I have another appointment in 2 weeks. He said he would do more research in the meantime to see if he can find out more. So my question is: does anyone here have any experience with this specific problem? If so, I would greatly appreciate any insight you may have. I haven't researched this yet and will be looking around tonight but any first-hand experience would be wonderful. Thanks in advance....Jim

02-19-2009, 05:46 PM	#2
Wylie's Mom Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 35,889 Blog Entries: 2	Oh Jim...as I was reading the first part of the post, I was so worried you lost a pup. I'm so relieved you didn't . I don't any advice whatsoever (except, maybe calling a vet hospital for a consult w/ an animal physical therapist?), but just wanted to post that I'll be keeping this little girl in my thoughts. Keep us posted on her and hang in there. __________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann \| Pfeiffer \| Marcel Verdel Purcell \| Wylie \| Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨°

02-19-2009, 05:54 PM	#4
morgan111 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: parksville Posts: 201	hi not sure if my problem is the same but we had a litter 3 years ago and our darling little gracie was born with what they called flipper back legs they were backwards ,the vet wasnt sure what ro do either so because she was only 1oz at birth we decided to weight till she was a bit older 2-3 weeks and look then as she needed care around the clock .surprisin the one leg turned around but the right one never has ,i will take a picture of her today and see if i have any from when she was born .she is now going to be 4 soon and 3lbs of pure dynomite she only uses three legs but boy the others have a hard time catchin her .the only think she can not due is go down the stairs she climbs up d __________________

02-19-2009, 06:54 PM	#12
chattiesmom Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Alabama Posts: 17,674	I don't have any "yorkie experience", but I do have Miniature Horse expreience. Crooked legs is quite common in new born miniatures. Many times they need to be splinted -- but the risk is damage to soft tissue. We only had to splint one mini - my precious little Quincy. The splints worked, but we did have minor soft tissue damage which healed once the splints were off. I truly believe that physical therapy will be successful IF you are diligent and continue the therapy/massage as directed by the vet or as frequently as possible. I am a firm believer in giving the body the tools to heal itself, in this case therapy/massage. __________________ Silk Step-In Harnesses www.foxypups.etsy.com

02-19-2009, 06:55 PM	#13
chattiesmom Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Alabama Posts: 17,674	I entirely forgot to congratulate you on your new litter. Can't wait to see pics __________________ Silk Step-In Harnesses www.foxypups.etsy.com

02-19-2009, 05:49 PM	#3
clm56 YT Addict Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: in the beautiful USA Posts: 259	~I have not had any experience in anything like this and hope everything works out for the little puppy. I'll be saying a prayer. Please keep us posted as to the outcome.

02-19-2009, 05:59 PM	#5
Woogie Man Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,564	Thanks, Ann. We surely dodged a bullet with the first boy. Let me tell you, that'll get your adrenaline going! As for the little girl, she is very healthy and doing fine except for her obvious problem. The vet I saw isn't my regular vet. He is THE guy to see in this area for orthopedics. I had to get a referral just to see him. I am hopeful though, as her left foot has straightened out some since birth. Even if I can't get her to 100%, I at least want her to have a good quality of life. I've told you about my Bijou so you can imagine my dread when I first saw this little girl. I can't find anything online about this specific problem so for now will just go with the PT. There is a great clinic in Mandeville, LA that I may check with but am unsure if they have any experience with this either. I'm hoping there's a YT'er out there that can help. I will post updates as it may be helpful to someone else if they have the same misfortune.

02-19-2009, 06:04 PM	#6
my2boyz Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my house :) Posts: 5,219	Hi Jim...I'm sorry to hear about the baby girl's foot and I hope she will be o.k. with some therapy. Let me tell you our story...not a Yorkie but a baby duck. We used to take the duck eggs from the river bank and hatch them out so they were safe, they we would return the babies to the water once they were big enough to make it on their own. So, one of the baby ducks was born with a foot much like you described...crooked leg, foot turned under and to the inside. My husband decided to make a splint for his leg so he made it out of a straw...just split it down the side and slide it over the leg...it's enough support to keep the leg straigt, or at least it was on the duck. He also made a little sandal of sorts...he made it the shape of the duck's foot, it was heavy cardboard so it had a little weight to it. We would straighten out foot, lay the sandal under his toes and tape it in place. We had to change it once a day so we would stretch his little foot and work it a bit each time we took the cardboard off...then we would replace his sandal. We did this for a couple of weeks and it really helped him...he was able to live and swim normally. Maybe something like that would help your little girl as long as the mother didn't bother it.

02-19-2009, 06:12 PM	#8
Woogie Man Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,564	Great story about the duck. I've considered trying a taping method, possibly with some wire as a re-enforcement but will try the PT for a little bit. If I don't see some positive result fairly quickly, I'll have to try something else. The vet wasn't able to give me a firm time for when the bones really begin to set, but I'm sure we have no more than maybe 3 weeks to get this resolved.

02-19-2009, 06:34 PM	#11
Woogie Man Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,564	It's because of Bijou that I'm not wasting any time jumping on this. With her, the vet saw her at 3 days old but wanted to wait since they couldn't get a good x-ray on such a young pup. Not knowing any better at the time, I went along with this. Well, they x-rayed her at 6 weeks and told me there was nothing that could be done since the bones had set. Needless to say, she is my EX vet. These days, I don't have a lot of trust in vets but do feel that this guy is very competent. Still, I won't blindly follow his recommendations since this case is time sensitive.

02-19-2009, 07:10 PM	#14
Woogie Man Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,564	I started working her legs within hours after she was born. I surely hope the PT works as there just isn't much to work with on a newborn Yorkie's legs. And, as the vet said, it's mostly cartilage, tendon and muscle. She does show some good strength, though. You should see her when I apply upward pressure from her foot. She REALLY pushes back LOL. I was surprised she even had the pups when she did. She was only on day 59 from her only tie but all the babies seem full term. I'll try to get some pics soon but have been too caught up in dealing with the little girl to get any pics yet. The pups all look generic at this point, but Scarlett and Roger, the Dad, are both gorgeous and are the same type so I'm hopeful for some very nice pups.