question on pick of the litter
 

hello everyone, I'm sherry in Oklahoma with a little problem and would like to see what you all think I should do. I have a little female Sophie, she just had her first litter. About a week ago I had an xray on her to see how many pups were coming. it showed two. In the beginning we really didn't have any agreement other than he would have pick of the litter. he wanted a female. Sophie had her first puppy at 11:30am and by 4pm she hadn't had the second. we were in constant contact to the vet. We ended up bringing Sophie to the vet where she got some injections to make her contract. I haven't got the vet bill yet. anyways she did finally deliver a dead puppy so we have the one. He wasn't sucking so I had to stay up all night of course and take care of this baby. Finally he started sucking and Sophie was feeding him. today he is only 1 day old but my question is, am I out of place to say I want this puppy? My little female has been through a lot and I can't imagine somone taking her only puppy and its not that I don't want to pay him for the service but he just said he wanted pick of the litter for a runt female. we aren't out of the woods yet either so I may be premature on this. Tell me what you think. this is a family pet, not for show.

Welcome to Yorkie Talk. I'm sorry to hear about the loss of the one little baby. In my opinion, you call the shots....you own the mommy and have 1 surviving baby. I would tell him that you will pay a stud fee but will not give up your only puppy. Don't feel obligated to give the puppy away and don't let him try to convince you otherwise. Good Luck with the new baby and let me know what happens.

Cheryl
:aimeeyork:aimeeyork:aimeeyork:aimeeyork:aimeeyork

Congratulations on your new baby. First of all it is always best to have a written contract between the bitch and sire owners so all options are covered. I feel that the sire owner should allow you to pay a stud fee instead of taking a puppy. I have had the same situation before and that is what I allowed the owner of the bitch to do. I do hope you get it resolved. I pray the momma and her new baby do well.

I like your answer. I'm in charge. I really don't think the guy will be unfair, I just wish we would of discussed it before now. thank you so much for your time and I will let you know the out come. Sherry

I hope it all works out for you! I never do pick of the litter anymore, but when I did I had it in the contract that in the event something just like this happened than they could choose to pay for the stud service - I certainly wouldn't want to take someone's only pup!!

I see it a bit differently. You entered a verbal contract that the stud's owner would get pick of the litter. The male now falls into that category and the stud's owner has rights to him. Because this was the agreement, I don't think, just because you own the mom, you can call the shots. That is what I'd see as fair and maybe even the only way to avoid legal action by the stud owner? However, that said, you can always ask the stud owner if you can just pay for the stud service instead of giving him that pup. He may take your circumstances to heart and agree to that. I don't think he will want to take away your only pup.

My concern is, why did he want a runt female? For a pet or to breed?

One puppy does not make a litter so there is no "pick of the litter". See if he will let you pay a stud fee and be done with it. And after this NEVER enter into a verbal contract again.

Dee, actually if you look at the definition of litter it says:
Plus she had two puppies and one died. That fact is irrelevant. If she had an agreement for pick of the litter then she should keep her word if the sire owner wants the puppy. Personally I would never do that to anyone. I had a verbal agreement with someone for pick of the litter and her female had only one female puppy but I did not have the heart to take her so I just told her I would take a stud fee of $300 instead. I could have taken the puppy and sold her and made a lot more money but to me that was not the right thing to do.

I think he has the right to the puppy. I could never take a single but I would expect to get paid.

Legally you entered into a verbal contract which is just as binding as a written contract , so he does have the right to "pick of the litter" . But that being said , he seemed to want a small/runt female and may not even want the male surviving puppy. Talk to him and find out if he will take a stud fee and let you keep the pup. Chances are he wont want the male and it wont be an issue. Oh , If you plan on doing it again I recommend a written contract that doesn't include Pick of the litter.

Good luck ! :)

I think he has the right to the puppy--that was the agreement, pick of the litter. Now if he offers to let you pay a stud fee, that's his choice. IMO, that would be the nice thing to do, but if he wants the only puppy, IMO he is entitled to it.
Yes, you should have had a written contract carefully outlining the details of your agreement, but you didn't. All you had was your verbal agreement and what is done is done. You will have nothing to show for it, and it is truly a bad situation, but it is what it is. Hindsight is 20/20 and this is a hard lesson learned about what are often the hardships of breeding and making sure you have all your bases covered. This is why, if I ever needed to seek outside stud service, I think I would only enter the agreement if I could pay a stud fee.

I don't do anything without a contract...I have a contract for everything ! LOL BUT thats just the way I am.

I did a stud and gave her a choice...pick of litter, or fee. She chose pick. So I drew up the contract BUT I always state that if the breeding ends up with 1 pup that then the bitch owner has her choice to give up the pup or to pay my stud fee.

In this instance....she decided she wanted to give me the pup. I kept telling her no...I feel bad taking your pup, but she insisted. So I also threw in a FREE breeding her girls next heat :)

I just like to be fair.

Let us know what happens. I'm sorry you lost one.

The only surviving pup is a male and the stud owner wanted a pick of a litter but he wanted a runt female. So I think both of them has to talk to each other and maybe the next litter will be better. This is just my opinion.

What if it had been a litter of 5 with no females. Does that mean that he still wouldn't have been entitled to it because he ideally wanted a female and there wasn't one?

That part bothers me. What kind of guy was this? Was he running a puppy mill or something? Who asks for the "runt female" as pick of the litter? Most people, if they were looking for a female, would want the most healthy and suitable for breeding if that is what he wants it for. Often times runts can have health issues. Sounds fishy to me.
With toy breeds, you always need to take into consideration when entiring into a contract, that there is always a possibility of one puppy being born.
I hope he is fair and just accepts a stud fee. From the sounds of it, he is just looking for a teeny tiny girl to breed, and may not be interested in a male at all, since he has one already.
If you breed again, I would personally look elsewhere for a stud.

Well he did say he wanted pick of the litter" runt Female" this is a male... so there you have it that is what he said pay him the money and keep your baby boy... Life is to short to cause a fight over this..

So then in your opinion, the factor that determines that he is not entitled to this pup is the fact that he ideally wanted a girl? So what if it had been a litter of all males? Would that mean he wasn't entitled to one then either?

The original poster never said that she was going to refuse the man the puppy....she was just asking if it would be ok to ask him if she could keep the puppy.

Geesh....no need for all the drama!:eek:

Where did you find that definition? When hubby goes to stud his beagles out, he counts two living births as a litter. he would never take a persons only puppy. maybe that is just him tho. You know me, I always take his opinion as the gospel!!!!!!:D nevermind, I googled it and you are right. I stand corrected.

You're right, no need for drama and as my posts was not intended to start any....I'll blame any resulting drama on the power of suggestion.
I am perfectly aware of what the OP was asking. However, I was not responding to the OP, I was responding to the post that I quoted. Just trying to clarify/understand her reasoning.

Dee, no problem. You husband sounds like he is a good caring person. Someone that is uncaring and only thinking of money would probably take the only puppy. Hopefully the OP will get it resolved.

One time I got pick of the litter, there was a male and a female and I felt guilty taking the female so I gave the person another stud service at no cost. Generally I don't like studding out my dogs unless it is someone I know.

Agreed! :thumbup: I think the ball is in his court, but surely he would see reason. Even if he's entitled to it, it would be really cruel to demand the only surviving pup. :(

I am sure it will probably work out for you. I would just give him a call and talk to him about it. Just tell him exactly what you would like to see happen and see what he says. He may have his heart set on a girl. He may offer to try again at some later time or something. I like to remind myself that 'everything is as it should be'. Just make sure next time (if you want to again) you just print up a contract defining the details that make sure everyone is going to know what to expect for each of the scenerio's that can arise. It will all work out.:)

I would ask him if you could pay the stud fee, bottom line he probably doesn't want the male anyway,always have a contract on anything you do with breeding. Good Luck, hopefully the man has a heart and will just let you pay a stud fee:)

This is where really knowing someone's character and as a person before getting into business with them could come into play...hopefully he is considerate & compassionate to you providing the situation and let you keep the singleton and allow you to pay a stud fee this time. Some of these possible scenarios are not thought about when breeding....but it's a learning experience.... Good Luck

I think he has the right to choose. I doubt if he'll want it being that it's a male. Just try talking with him. Most experienced breeders would understand.

As everyone has said already, unfortunately he does have rights to that pup if that was the agreement, but if all she has is a male and he wanted a female, I see no reason why he wouldn't just accept the stud fee instead and let it go.

I have yet to stud my males because it scares me and just hasn't been something I want to deal with as of yet. However, I do have a contract drawn up in case it ever does happen, and I state that if the female has a no pups a repeat breeding can be done at no extra charge, and if she has one puppy I will not take it and the stud fee will be cut in half. So instead of paying $500 or me getting the pup, they just pay $250 and keep their only baby.

I have had to use a stud before and one of mine only had one pup. I had a stud fee contract and she did not make me pay it, but she had told me beforehand that she wouldn't if that happened.

I think everything should be in writing before the studding even takes place. Otherwise you don't have a leg to stand on. You will just have to hope that he will let you pay the fee instead.

yes he is caring Barbara. he has been breeding his beagles, plus training and showing for about forty years now and the way he built it up was to treat people right. he is the one I learn from. Altho, the breed is different, the concepts are the same. i always tell him that when I grow up, i want to be the kind of breeder he is.:)

Since there is only one puppy surviving...

I was told by professional breeders(they show their yorkies), that if there is one puppy the owner of the mother gets to keep it regardless. Then you use the stud again and the owner of the stud gets to keep pick of the litter again even if their is only one puppy that time also.


Don't want ANY arguments, just stating what I was told.

Sophie
 

you all are just awsome for giving me so much information. I guess you can tell I am not in the breeding business. Sophie lost her second puppy yesterday and we are all just heartbroken. I can't stress enough how she looks at me like a child and asks me where is my baby? She stays in my lap now and just wants to be close to me so I am doing just that. It started out that I was taking maternity leave and everyone at work just laughed but they knew I was excited about the puppies and shared my excitement. The stud came here to my house, her puppy was conceived here, born here, died here and buried here. I hope after today it gets better because not only was it heartbreaking to loose the puppy but its a real heartbreak to see her look all over for this puppy. We are going to stay busy and everything will be better. I may try again but haven't decided yet.
I want thank everyone that has replied and i feel I should pay him a stud service and will do just that. Sophie weighs 4.9lbs she only gained 5ounces in the pregnancy so something tells me she should gain more than that.
I will be much clearer next time but I think I will just pay the service and keep all puppies next time if we decide to do this again. I think that is the best way.
answering the question about the runt/female. This person that breeds the yorkies has all real small dogs . I don't remember for sure if he said runt or not but female he wanted. I will call him today and settle with him and thank you all very much for your information. I don't know why I didn't find this site sooner. Sherry