Thank You...this makes sense to me. I am a little slow sometimes...LOL

I have just been playing this over and over in my head and I am thankful for all the advice.

:thumbup: ...I totally agree with Pat on this one!...Liver shunt is so prevelant in our breed that inbreeding is just going to make it more prevelant!...I am praying that someday there will be a genetic test to help rid the Yorkshire Terrier of this and other health problems!...I would not use this stud!

Hi there,
Be patient, and keep researching even when you think you've got a good grasp on your questions because there always seems to be more out there. I wouldn't take it so personally about the 'yelling'. I doubt she was 'screaming' at you. More likely screaming at the act of inbreeding. Cheer up, and take things a little more light hearted. If you don't let yourself get run off by a few CAPS, then you're bound to find some great mentors and information here!!
Good Luck!:animal36

I have years of experience too - and would never, never do an in-breeding. I am totally responsible for each pup I bring into the world. I do not want to hurt any pup, by knowing that I might cause a problem. No way!
I would leave this only to the breeders that have had a life time in producing champions and know the true science of breeding.

I personally think it was a good question by the op!...Because she asked the question many others will learn what not to do!...Hopefully it will help!

This is exactly why I asked the question....I wanted to know what happens with his offspring!!! I do not want to hurt the pup or the new parents!:animal-pa:animal-pa;)

Personally, when I inbred two yorkies 10 years ago, it was because I did not know any better and I had been told it was fine to do. These were not show dogs but they had some champion bloodline. Luckily I did not have any problems from the breeding. Knowing what I know today I would not inbred again but I do feel that line breeding is sometimes better than out crossing. There are many risks in any breeding that you do and sometimes no matter how careful you plan your breedings you can have bad results. Just for learning purposes I have attached a picture of my Little Man, pictured on the left. He is the product of a father to daughter breeding. Pictured on the right is Shorty, he is the son of Little Man. The bitch I bred Little Man to was totally unrelated to him, an outcross breeding. Little Man is ten years old and Shorty is 8 years old. I love them to pieces even if they aren't show dogs. Now just speaking from my heart. If I had had a mentor, YT and all the wonderful advise that I am seeing on here now, I would be much further ahead in my breeding program. We all make mistakes but we just have to learn from them and more forward.

Yay! Another nerd like me on this thread! And I say it in the nicest way possible :)

This subject has been discussed in previous threads but this one has been especially good. Thanks to the OP for the thread and to all of the good opinions, well founded and well stated. :thumbup::thumbup:

Thank you Pat!!!
Excellent post :)

:thumbup::thumbup:

What is the difference between "inbreeding" and "linebreeding"? How closely bred is inbreeding vs. linebreeding? I know alot of show dogs come from lines that are linebred and it was my understanding that as long as you are doubling up on dogs in a pedigree that have the qualities you want to see in your puppies or qualities that one of the parents are lacking that is a good thing? Is this wrong?

Here is an article that explains the different types of breeding:
Types of Breeding: Inbreeding, Line-breeding, outcrossing, outbreeding

While inbreeding is not recommended for the inexperienced, I must add that if it were not for inbreeding and close line breeding, we would not have most of the breeds we have today. Most people have a great misunderstanding about inbreeding and think that all inbred dogs are nuts or have something terribly wrong with them. I found this to be very untrue.

Line breeding is breeding more distantly related dogs, grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles. Even line breeding has to be monitored closely because your gene pool can still get too small. Even the best breeders that line breed will bring in different bloodlines ever so often.

I agree..there was a time when very close breedings were useful and needed to set type etc..but most agree it is not wise today. There was an excelllent article a few years ago in the "The Yorkshire Terrier" Mag..regarding this subject and no longer the need to do so.
I am old enough to remember when most did not outcross..I was discouraged from outcrossing when I started...but breeding type to type is a good breeding today I find..really produced some nice potentials in Canada for a friend.


To the OP...I was reading this thread to my husband and he said I should tell you an experince I had early on...
There was no Internet, of course, no breed forums, no where to learn anything, books on Yorkie breeding still do not exist..

I decided to go where "they" gathered..a dog show. I went up to Johnny Robinson (Trivar, a foundation breeder) I said..."I would like to buy a female to breed to my male, she must be very nice and produce nice puppies"...Johnny asked where I got my male? I told him Gus came from a good breeder (he had a pedigree) and I got him from a pet shop...actually, I got him from someone who bought him from a pet shop.

Johnny's partner, Morris, all but went into cardiac arrest, his eyes glazed over and he had to walk away...Johnny, simply shook his head and did not reply...I guess he figured there was no use, I was hopeless. We later became friends and I bought a nice bitch from him and used stud service quite often to help me improve. My first champion goes back to Trivar.

Any question, any poster has asked about breeding, showing etc..on YT, I have actually asked in person to an exhibitor at a show and I am still alive to tell it...but if you are serious about the breed, nothing will stop you...and I am a declawed pussy cat, compared to what you will come up against, beleive me.

:bravo:

very nicely said

Pat....thank you for sharing your story. I always value your input. I wish that more breeders would be open and honest about their breeding programs, the good and the bad. We all learn from mistakes and believe me, anyone who breeds long enough will end up with some breeding that just don't click. While I have been involved in breeding different breeds for over 35 years, it seems to me that breeding yorkies is in a league of its own and many more problems do exist. I have spoken with other show breeders that do continue to inbreed but I have to agree with you that it can be very risky.

You know I am VERY glad that I asked....It has been a while since there was a good informative thread in the Breeder section. I really think that everyone should put all the hostility to the side and get some more info out there!!!

You can't learn without the info being passed around.:D

I have a question relating to this. I think someone earlier in the thread said that breeders won't tell you about the defects in their lines. If this is so, what is the best way to research a line?

I knew when I asked the original question that there might be flaming....I was not really offended by your reply but I did not want this to end up like many other threads-hostility-I truly wanted an answer and some advice. This thread has been very informative!

Thank YOU again.

Good question....any one???

Wild guess, but I think it has to do with their image and respect. If you knew there was something wrong with the line, wouldn't you blame the breeder? Just a thought.

I do know of one lady that has been accumulating data on all the yorkie lines and she is documenting different health issues as she learns of them, through rescue groups and dog owners. Unfortunately, many breeders will not talk openly about health problems they have encountered. I would hope that if they sold someone a dog for breeding purposes that they would then discuss any health issues they have had in their lines.

Thanks for the article. That is exactly what I have read and been taught but I was reading something into what they were saying about inbreeding that was not there. I have linebred one of my females and got some really nice puppies and some I am just not happy with. It is a breeding I would not repeat. Not because either of the dogs involved were not beautiful just because the outcome was not what I was looking for. I think one of the biggest mistakes that breeders make trying to breed is using the same stud for all their females. Now I am not saying that one day I may find a stud who works for my few gals but you need to be willing to go out and find the right stud match for each of your females. What may be a perfect match for one is not for another. Breeding 2 beautiful yorkies together does not always produce nice puppies. I have a male I bought for stud and never used. I just had him neutered with some heartache as I thought he would originally make a nice stud. He was an adorable male, still is. I just did some research on him and didn't like where he came from or what they were producing and decided it was not for me. He now lives happily with my daughter as a pet as he always has. I could have turned a blind eye to that but I want something nicer than that. Something to be proud of. My husband doesn't get it but is willing to let me "do my thing" as he call it.

I have been blessed to meet a few wonderful breeders and friends through breeding yorkies and learn something new every day. I now have 2 nice yorkies that I believe will be the start of a very solid foundation for my breeding and hopefully showing. I am trying to do all the right things and learning as I go. I appreciate the knowledge those of you who have "been there" share in an informative manner. Please know that it is appreciated and used by those of us willing to learn from those who have had much more experience!

lines
 

The best place to learn about Yorkies and lines is at dog shows from long time Yorkie people...please so not say you are not interested in showing..that has nothing to do with it. For the most part, long time breeders/exhibitors can not be where they are and stay where they are if the line is riddle with problems..

Never believe all you hear, just listen and learn.

shows
 

You might try UKC also...I think that is a bit of an easier route to meet people...

This was a very informative post I am glad I've read it. I am rescuing a puppy who was a product of inbreeding and was eager to read this. I have been grasping at straws looking for as much info as I can get my hands on with dogs who have been closely bred. I am NOT and NEVER EVER planon breeding any type of dog, I am not a breeder but I am a person who has a big heart for animals that need a home and that need care. When he is of the right age he is going to get neutered as all the pets I've had in my life time have. I don't even know why I'm posting here, lol. I guess I am just anxious to see what road lies ahead of me I'll take it as it comes.

pup
 

An inbred rescue is very different then an inbred stud potential..the rescue is already here...and I would take one (free) with no hestiation and take my chances..I would not buy one for breeding...best wishes

Thank you, yeah he's not going to be bred in any shape or form.

I really am thankful to all that have replied to this tread...I had bad feeling from the begining...BUT let me tell you he is a beautiful Male. And I do mean BEAUTIFUL!

I also want to do this the right way. I want to raise healthy, happy pups. I do also want them to be beautiful!!!!:D But I would never want anyone to feel the pain that comes from loosing their furbabies!

Thanks again....:rolleyes:

:aimeeyork

That's great! I hope more people that would like to get into breeding do what you did first, RESEARCH! The whole point of breeding is to be done with the best interest of the breed in mind. At least I think that's what I've learned here.
*asking the more experienced breeders* Am I right?