Behaviorist tells me to neuter my boy...
 

Last night I called a Behaviorist in my area to get a consult on Ceasar as he has been very territorial towards my youngest girl. I told him I was going to be showing him, etc., but he just bluntly told me to have him neutered without even seeing him or anything. What do you guys all make of that? Is he really beyond help? I already have him separated from my two girls. During the day he is in the little bathroom with his bed and water, etc. and at night he has to stay in a crate in the bedroom because if she moves toward me or he perceives anything he just attacks. He is not that way with my other female.

I am at my wits end and hate to see my dreams go down the tubes because of one blunt Behaviorist, but if that is the consensus I will have to.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this situation?

I promise my feelings won't be hurt. They were already dashed last night.

Thanks in advance!:sad:

Gosh, it doesn't sound like he has much of a life in the bathroom and crate all the time (I'm sure you get him out for play and such). I understand why, you're protecting the others. I don't think a dog with a bad temperment should be bred. It might be best if you had him neutered and see if his behavior changes. If not you may need to rehome him and get another male. I haven't had any males act in aggressively. So I don't have any advice on whether or not he'll change. There may be a heat cycle factor coming up in one of the girls that he's favoring, I don't know. I'll let other who've experienced that help you there.

I hope it is a phase or something. And than it's not his nature. Do you think it's just how he is?

Can you find another behaviorist in your area? It seems strange to me that he/she would just write the case off and recommend what to do without even seeing the dog in person??

I would try someone else, and if they recommend having him fixed, then maybe you can consider it. Dont' let this one person determine what you do — to me their opinion just is not valid without having seen the dog.

My only concern is that it sounds like he spends a lot of time alone — either in the bathroom during the day or his crate at night. That would piss me off too, lol.

Did you have Cesar before your new little girl? If she came into the picture and you started doting on her and your attention toward him became less (which is natural to happen with a new puppy in the house), then that could be why he is becoming more aggressive towards her. He sees her as a threat and is literally fighting for your attention/love. If all the sudden she comes in the house and now he's having to live in the bathroom and his crate all day, I think that might be why he's having behavior problems. This is just a guess though, because I don't know your whole story. I don't think any dog is a 'lost cause', I'm sure something can be done.

Good luck! :)

Here's some more info. Cleo the 5 month old (the subject of the aggression) came first, then Ceasar (the 6 month old male), then Princess (18 month old female and recently had a heat). I have not favored any of them over the other. It is when I pay attention to him that he gets awful with Cleo. He never gets that way with Princess.

Up to yesterday, they were all together except when Princess was in heat. I literally have to stay in the kitchen when they are all together. I don't get involved unless it gets ugly. In fact they were all tearing around the house playing great last night and then in the middle of the night when Cleo made a move toward me on the bed he attacked her. He started out on the bed and then went in the crate. Then he whined and I put him back up until it happened again and then he spent the rest of the night in the crate.

I work full time and I could not get anything done at work worrying about them if they were all together when I was not home. I go home for lunch to let them out and play with them. I am home every night with them as well.

He was a little shy when I got him, but got along with Cleo from the start.

I refuse to give up on him...He is part of my family. If I have to neuter him, then I will, but then that's not even a guarantee he will chill if it's in his nature.

This is all so disconcerting....thanks guys for your input!

Nancy, when he attacks her is he actually biting her or his he just trying to dominate her? I have one male that likes to jump on female puppies to show his dominance when they get too rowdy but he would never hurt one. I have never had a male that would hurt a female. Now I have had females that would fight each other and males that would fight each other. It there anywhere around you where you can get them out together and take them for walks? It sounds like he has some jealousy going on and maybe some buildup frustrations due to lack of exercise. I really feel that as the puppy get older he will be more willing to accept her. If he is attacking her and he is out for blood then that is an entirely different story. I know a lady that had a very aggressive male and on several different occasions he killed some young female pups that were around 4 or 5 months old. They finally wised up and rehomed him. You must use caution and if you think he will harm the little girl then please do not put them together.

Thanks for the input.

I take them for a 15-20 minute walk each night down to the ocean to tire them out. They run around the living room in the evening like banshees and get along too. I do training with them in the evening, i.e. sit, down, etc.

It seems to me he is out to hurt her. He gets her on the floor and just goes to town and she cries. She has always been outgoing, but now seems to be very wary when he is around and when he attacked her last night she went on the back step and shivered. I can see him posturing and getting this still, but sneaky look about him and then all at once he charges.

This morning when he did it, when I lifted him up away from her he had ahold of her and when I lifted they both came 6 inches off the ground so he had pretty good hold of her. He has to stay in the bathroom with the gate across while I am at work, I would worry so...He has a nice soft bed and water, so he is quite comfortable and the two girls are in the kitchen in their enclosure.

My poor little babies. There will be no casualties in my house. I am very involved with them, but I don't like to isolate him if it causes more problems.

Wow, I'm really sorry about this. I would be so worried.

When you break up the fight do you do anything to him? Or do you just put him in a crate/bathroom/etc? When my mini schnauzer would play a little too rough or be dominating to my yorkie, we would not only break it up, but we would dominate HER. We would put her on her back, grab her beard, and look her in the eyes with our face really close to her face. We would look at her very sternly and would not look away until she did first. We wanted it to be very clear that she was NOT a boss in the house. We were the only bosses and she had no business dominating anyone. Probably until she was 1 yr old we would have what my husband calls RAD's (random acts of domination) where would would do this randomly as a way to show OUR dominance. A Petco trainer told us to do this. It worked.

OH, and definitely get a second opinion!! She may just be some anti-breeding person.

I did "put him down" on the floor a few times yesterday, but haven't tried the "glaring". That sounds like something to try. I tell him a stern "no", and separate him from the pack, but would never get physical. Maybe I don't sound convincing enough to him?

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: You give such good advise Barbara!! You teach me something new everyday! Hugs :) Lee

I love you guys!

Ceasar is putting Cleo on the floor, but not Princess as she is the one who just went out of heat. He has really become taken with Princess. Cleo is a month younger than Ceasar.

I love Cesar Milan...just had one of his books from the library when all this began. I always have Animal Planet on and watch anything on dog behavior I can.

Now, I do remember Ceasar's breeder saying that his father was very dominant over him and fought with him constantly. When I met Ceasar he was very timid as were his two sisters. I should have seen the red flag then, but I fell in love with him.

I do believe the way Cesar Milan works is the way to go with "the Pack". I am going to try to be the leader in a more decisive way. I must say that lunch time was quiet when they were all out together. When Ceasar was around Cleo I could see his wheels turning, but then he got a little shivery all over like he was trying to behave himself and it was killing him, so maybe he is getting the message. I only have the one male and two females and I hate him having to be by himself.

Cleo is non AKC, so I am thinking of spaying her. I don't want her to go into heat either, or do I. I know his attention will change once she does. The only trick will be keeping him off of her as it will be her first heat.

oh and I forgot to say that I have never played rough with them, but my fiance has and also played them one against the other....kissing one and letting the other see him gush over them. This started actually when he would get them in high gear playing rough now that I think of it. Good thing he is away for a few weeks, maybe I can turn things around. I already told him back then that it was inappropriate, but he is as stubborn as a yorkie sometimes...LOL
:p

Actually it is not funny because I have to deal with the repurcussions :mad:

Cleo is 5 months and I am planning to get her fixed sooner rather than later. I wasn't planning on getting another male initially unless Ceasar is determined to be unsuitable for breeding. I was planning to put Princess and he together, but I want to make sure he doesn't have a screw loose or I will have to find a suitable stud for Princess before fall. Princess has champions in her first three generations.

Ceasar spent the night in the crate...Cleo in the kitchen
 

Everything went well last night til bedtime..Ceasar was the only one on the bed and Princess and Cleo were playing. I thought I would know when Cleo came up on the bed and could grab Ceasar before he lunged at her, but no luck. I grabbed him up off of her and put him in the crate on the floor next to my bed. Cleo ran off crying and Princess followed. I spent the night alone in the bed. Cleo would not come back, so she and Princess (little mother that Princess is she stayed with her) slept in their doggie bed under the kitchen table. I am afraid the girls are losing faith with me because he keeps terrorizing Cleo.

I guess he is going to have to sleep in the crate from now on. I think I am going to get him neutered....this is just too much for me. I hate to admit defeat, but I don't know what else to do. He is such a pretty boy too.

I am so disheartened. I am a good Mommy, but I just can't get a handle on this one.

I am so sorry your boy is being so bad. I think you would be doing right in getting him neutered. I am not sure that will correct his bad behavior though. Do you have any place in the house you can setup a big exercise pen for him? You could take turns between the male and the female puppy, putting them in the x-pen at different times. That way he would not be as confined and when you do let him out the puppy could then go in the x-pen where she would be safe.

They did pretty good most of the evening until bedtime. I wish I didn't have to neuter him as he was going to go into the ring in the fall. I emailed my mentor to see what to do about this. I also emailed another behaviorist who works with police dogs and aggression. I want to make an educated decision, darn it!

I let him out of the bathroom at lunch time and was sitting in my usual spot when Cleo got around him. He attempted to pin her, but I was right there and picked him up. She, of course went out the doggie door to get away from him again.

He also chewed the cabinet in the bathroom so I brought the crate out of the bedroom and put it within the circle where I put the two girls and shut him in it when I went back to work. Maybe he needs to be near them, but not able to bite if he had the inclination. I am trying it all. Haven't heard from the other behaviorist yet, but I will call him tonight.

My boyfriend called me from where he is and said don't do anything until I get back. Do anything! I can't even bear the thought that I might have to give him up to another home!

Thank goodness I talked to my mentor. I am not going to give up on him. He's just a frustrated little boy.

I am, however going to crate him by my bed at night and keep him crated when I have to be out of the house and keep taking him for walks with the girls.

Thanks for all the input. I hate being new at all this stuff. It takes help from all of you who have gone through it before. Sometimes I can read something in a book and not "get it" until I deal with the experience.

Good luck with him. I really hope he works through it. I have rehomed girls that were too aggressive. I realize that they're establishing pack order, yada yada yada...And alpha female stuff. But when it comes to one tormenting another constantly, that doesn't go over here. I had a girl that would bow down everytime the aggressive girl walk near (irks me because the girl was losing confidence, couldn't be herself and that was plain mean lol). I know that's why breeders have runs, but I don't have that yet. Anyways, best of luck with your girl.

It sounds like you have the situation under control while you are away from home by separating him from the females. He might mellow as she becomes older and is able to stand her ground....then he might back down as it would be a non-issue. You can't show your male unless he's intact can you? If so, I'd definitely try to keep them separate until your female gets another six or so months older and see what happens.

dominance is definitely the issue here...
 

Thanks for all your good thoughts and suggestions. He spent the night on the bed last night and the girls stayed in their bed in the kitchen. Princess tried to get on the bed this morning and he started on her. I filled a soda can with coins and shook it every time he even postured last night and this morning and it worked. I even slept with it....LOL

I took them on a long walk by the ocean last night and they were good. On the way back he was nipping at the girls happily and I used my shhhht sound and he stopped. Of course he started right up again, but all in all it was a good night.

Not giving up on the little varmint....

No you can't show them unless they are intact, which is why the behaviorist comment to neuter him p***** me off so much. He didn't even see Ceasar face to face or do an evaluation. $125 is alot to pay, but I was willing to pay it. What a jerk.

Really good advice!

They will all be in crates tonight. Starting back at the beginning. Daddy allowed Ceasar on the bed when he got home and started all this over again. He is one confused little boy. He wants to be the boss and he can't be.

Once they progress, I may allow them a bed on the floor. They do sleep in the doggie bed together when we are all in the kitchen.

Put the doggie stairs right in the basement.

They used to all do so good on the bed. I am going to miss my little furballs at night :pout: This is going to be so hard. I hope it's not forever.

They slept on the bed Friday night as they had their shots and two out of the three were really affected, Ceasar was one of them. Poor little thing, he got so stiff and everytime I touched him he yelped.

Things improving with Ceasar...
 

All of the dogs have been banned from the bedroom...boohoo, but they all sleep on a doggie bed in the kitchen. Just the fact that Mr. attitude is not allowed on the bed has changed him dramatically. He is back to his old self. He still tries to boss the girls around, but we can deal with that.

So, see I was ready to throw in the towel and all the support I received here on YT has helped me through a difficult moment.

Thanks you all! :bravo:

I am so glad to hear things are going better. I think as the puppy gets older things will get even better. Keep up the good work!:thumbup:

update on Ceasar's behavior
 

Ceasar has done an about face and has calmed down alot. On the other hand, Princess has started arguing with Cleo. Cleo is now spayed. When they get locked in a fight, they are totally serious. Now I am keeping the two girls separate. I have learned alot from reading all of the posts on here and am very happy to have so much good input.

I thought I would give an update so everyone doesn't think I disappeared off the face of the earth!