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-   -   Short or Long Bodied Brood Bitches (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/132058-short-long-bodied-brood-bitches.html)

TeddyandTiffy 05-30-2008 05:21 AM
Short or Long Bodied Brood Bitches
 
Breeders I have Sage she is a longer bodied Brood Bitch and then we have Sofie and Weezie who is short bodied Brood Bitches. Which in each of you Breeders OPO think is better for Whelping Yorkie Puppies Longer or Shorter Brood Bitches.

Tiffanie was a longer bodied Brood Bitch and didn't have any whelping problems what so ever.

What qualities do you look for when choosing a Brood Bitch to Breed for Show Quality?

Sage will be bred next Spring, Weezie and Sofie is still on the waiting list as we have NO other males to breed them too & still learning if they are of a good quality Brood Bitch to use in our Breeding Program. Just wanting to learn more on this subject. Thanks ahead for any wisdom you can give on this. :) Lee

Sugar's Mom 05-30-2008 05:57 AM
lee all I can tell you is my own eperience. Everyone I know says that long bodied bitches are better . I have had one long body and two very short compact bitches.
y experience is this. The long bodied one had only two babies and each one of the short squatty ones had two litterss each for me and each time had five babies and free whelped until the last time. They had two litters of five each before i bought them so they didn't have any problems at all until their last breeding before retirement. My long bodied bitch had to have a section and one of her two puppies was dead. Now, after saying that, I have a long bodied young bitch bred right now and due in a few days. Her first time. She is only having two babies. so for what it's worth, I just don't see that it matters altho everyone says go with the longer brood bitches.

bjh 05-30-2008 06:52 AM
I would have to agree with Dee that is probably does not make too much difference. You can have whelping problems with either. I feel that the problem with short bodied bitches is that if they are carrying a large litter then I would be much more concerned with over crowding in the womb and a ruptured uterus. I have noticed in the show ring that many of the bitches are slightly longer in body. Of course in breeding you want to achieve balance so in selecting a mate for a longer bodied bitch you would want to go with a male that is more balanced.

JaLaYorkieGirl 05-30-2008 07:48 AM
I do not think the length has anything to do with how well they will whelp. I have known several people who have thought long meant they could carry more puppies. I do not think their body length has anything to do with the number of eggs they ovulate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyandTiffy (Post 2020244)


What qualities do you look for when choosing a Brood Bitch to Breed for Show Quality?
If I want to produce show quality puppies then I am going to look for a female and a male that are either show quality or VERY close. Breeding dogs that are longer than they should be will only cause that to continue in the line, especially if it is used consistently. If you have one girl that you think is very nice, but is a little long in body/short in leg...then you may be able to breed that out. In yorkies I prefer a compact dog, shorter backs and nice length of leg to allow for coat growth and elegant movement.

JaLaYorkieGirl 05-30-2008 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2020403)
I feel that the problem with short bodied bitches is that if they are carrying a large litter then I would be much more concerned with over crowding in the womb and a ruptured uterus.
I agree. I think if they are too compact while being a smaller dog then you also risk them not being able to carry a larger litter to full term, as they run out of space. If the dog has a good spring of ribs though I do not think this is as much of a problem. The females that are compact and narrow I think would have more difficulty.

YorkieRose 05-31-2008 04:03 AM
body
 
Neither long or short...I, perfer square.

TeddyandTiffy 06-01-2008 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 2021938)
Neither long or short...I, perfer square.
Thanks for your answer but could you please explain in more detail what you mean by Square. Is this the body shape? Or ??? Sorry if I seem so dumb but I'm learning. Thanks so much in advance, :) Lee

kelkiss5 06-02-2008 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeddyandTiffy (Post 2024818)
Thanks for your answer but could you please explain in more detail what you mean by Square. Is this the body shape? Or ??? Sorry if I seem so dumb but I'm learning. Thanks so much in advance, :) Lee
I think what Yorkierose is saying that the standard for a yorkie shape is square:D:DNow I just said I think. :rolleyes::thumbup:

YorkieRose 06-02-2008 01:49 AM
body
 
Exactly....I do not want a body that is too long, nor too short..but square. When you look at the bitch, her outline forms a square from shoulders to hump and down the leg...she is as long as she is tall...

I avoid a body that is long with shorter legs...they produce rather odd looking puppies.

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom (Post 2020295)
lee all I can tell you is my own eperience. Everyone I know says that long bodied bitches are better . I have had one long body and two very short compact bitches.
y experience is this. The long bodied one had only two babies and each one of the short squatty ones had two litterss each for me and each time had five babies and free whelped until the last time. They had two litters of five each before i bought them so they didn't have any problems at all until their last breeding before retirement. My long bodied bitch had to have a section and one of her two puppies was dead. Now, after saying that, I have a long bodied young bitch bred right now and due in a few days. Her first time. She is only having two babies. so for what it's worth, I just don't see that it matters altho everyone says go with the longer brood bitches.
Thanks for your answers I'm starting to understand a little more :) Lee

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2020403)
I would have to agree with Dee that is probably does not make too much difference. You can have whelping problems with either. I feel that the problem with short bodied bitches is that if they are carrying a large litter then I would be much more concerned with over crowding in the womb and a ruptured uterus. I have noticed in the show ring that many of the bitches are slightly longer in body. Of course in breeding you want to achieve balance so in selecting a mate for a longer bodied bitch you would want to go with a male that is more balanced.
Thanks so much Barbara I would be concerned with a short bodied too as I don't think my Weezie or sofie could ever carry the 6 puppies her mother did. As far as the balance then I hopefully have that male with the balance for Sage??? Still learning tho Hugs :) Lee

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 04:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaLaYorkieGirl (Post 2020494)
I agree. I think if they are too compact while being a smaller dog then you also risk them not being able to carry a larger litter to full term, as they run out of space. If the dog has a good spring of ribs though I do not think this is as much of a problem. The females that are compact and narrow I think would have more difficulty.
Jackie see I would be concerned then for Sofie and Weezie, as they both run on the smaller compact size. This is good I'm trying to learn more about this for their sakes...I have no male to breed them with so they won't be bred yet if ever until I learn more on this subject.

Can I ask you what you mean by "Spring of Ribs" mean? How can you tell this on your Bitch? Thanks for you help in learning. Hugs :) Lee

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelkiss5 (Post 2025132)
I think what Yorkierose is saying that the standard for a yorkie shape is square:D:DNow I just said I think. :rolleyes::thumbup:
Thank you for your reply...Now I'm trying to learn what "Square" means in a Yorkie :) Lee

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 2025147)
Exactly....I do not want a body that is too long, nor too short..but square. When you look at the bitch, her outline forms a square from shoulders to hump and down the leg...she is as long as she is tall...

I avoid a body that is long with shorter legs...they produce rather odd looking puppies.
Thanks so much for your Wisdom on this subject. Can I ask you what you mean by "hump" and where it is located on the Yorkie? Thanks so much :) Lee

txshopper73 06-02-2008 04:08 AM
I choose bitches that more fit the standard. I know of a woman that uses both long bodied and short body bitches. Sometime her pups grow up to look more like weiner dogs with long hair. I prefer the shorter, more compact look. Also, neither dogs have had problems whelping.

bjh 06-02-2008 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by txshopper73 (Post 2025193)
I choose bitches that more fit the standard. I know of a woman that uses both long bodied and short body bitches. Sometime her pups grow up to look more like weiner dogs with long hair. I prefer the shorter, more compact look. Also, neither dogs have had problems whelping.
I agree, I prefer a bitch close to standard. I have seen some like you describe and I don't like them that long. I prefer them balanced or just slightly longer in body.

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 04:30 AM
4 Attachment(s)
Girls I found some standing photos of my bitches and one Dam (Tiffanie) now maybe you can tell me what each of them you think are in size as far as long, short, square bodies. Or maybe none of them are any??? I'm just trying to get a visual idea of what you each are explaining. Sorry for Weezie and Sofies standing photos those was taken for others to view their coats.

Thanks in advance for each of your OPO on this subject. And you don't have to worry about me getting upset or mad at your answers if I didn't want to know the truth I would not ask for your OPO and I'm wanting to learn so therefor I don't mind you giving me your honest OPOs as this is to me how I learn. Hugs to all :) Lee

In order they are:

#1. Tiffanie (Sorry that pose of her is all I could find fast of her standing)

#2. Sage

#3. Sofie

#4. Weezie

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by txshopper73 (Post 2025193)
I choose bitches that more fit the standard. I know of a woman that uses both long bodied and short body bitches. Sometime her pups grow up to look more like weiner dogs with long hair. I prefer the shorter, more compact look. Also, neither dogs have had problems whelping.
Thanks for your OPO on this subject. I just posted photos of my 4 girls, Tiffanie is no longer whelping as we had her spaded due to her being over sized and throwing out 1 large over the AKC weight limit puppy in each of her litters...Sofe, Sage and Weezie have yet to be bred. Could you give me your OPO on my dolls as far as size. Thanks so much :) Lee

YorkieRose 06-02-2008 05:23 AM
Oops
 
Sorry, I meant to say from shoulders to RUMP..not HUMP, it was too early!!!

I would breed bitch 2 and 3, not 4...

topknot 06-02-2008 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 2025273)
Sorry, I meant to say from shoulders to RUMP..not HUMP, it was too early!!!

I would breed bitch 2 and 3, not 4...
Now see I prefer #4 - I think it is the way she is standing that makes her tail area go down. But over all topline looks okay.
#3 is somewhat arched - but could be the way she is standing. #1 is out - good thing you had her spayed due to her being oversized.
I would also like to see faces.
Size - they look to be about the same size.

I prefer a bitch that is to standard - not too long and not too compact.
T.

JaLaYorkieGirl 06-02-2008 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by topknot (Post 2025304)
Now see I prefer #4 - I think it is the way she is standing that makes her tail area go down.
#3 is somewhat arched and #2 yorkie looks like a red legged. I could be wrong thought. #1 is out - good thing you had her spayed due to her being oversized.
T.
I agree with you, #4 seems to have the nicest topline/tailset and does look pretty square to me in the picture. She looks young and like she does need to fill out. It can be hard to judge this from pictures.

YorkieRose 06-02-2008 06:10 AM
bitches
 
I think if bitch two and three were stacked correctly, hand under tail and and neck lead taunt, they would even out...but as you say it is difficult from photo's...bitch 4 is too long in body for me and her muzzle is too long...

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 06:33 AM
Oh girls God bless you each for your OPO you are truly helping me learn and I have no regrets posting my photo of my gals as I am still new to breeding and I'm trying to get to toward the AKC Standards and this is why I VALUE your OPOs as you all unlike me KNOWs what is needed to get toward the AKC Standards. I know I have a long way to go before I ever ever if I ever that is get to where all of you are at in your Breeding programs.

And I know seeing them in person and feeling them in person would be better for each of you but I can't do that and I have NO ONE around me that can evaluate them for me to let me know anything.

Now how do I take the photos of them standing right so you can view them better I'm by far NO expert in ANY of this so help me to do what you need as far as photos to help you evaluate them. I can and will get you front photos of each so you can view their faces is there in special way I should do this for you all??? Topknot how do I pose # 4 Weezie to make her tail go up better for you to view her better.

I truly want to thank you for your Wisdom it means so much to me and don't any of you be afraid to tell me straight out I don't like this bitch and the whys or I like this in this bitch and the whys, this is how I learn you won't hurt my feelings any whatsoever!!!! And maybe this will help others here on YT as well.

#3 Sofie and #4 Weeize are my own home bred from Teddy and Tiffanie. Hugs and many thanks to each of you, your making my day here!!! I'm off to take photos lol :) Lee

YorkieRose 06-02-2008 06:46 AM
breeding
 
I am sure to anyone reading this thread who are non-breeders it sounds mean to pick a dog a part..but only the foolish breeder sticks their head in the sand. I do perfer the coat of your girl 4 to the coat of girl 2, but coat is just about the easiest negative to correct..sturcture faults are murder to correct.
Use a cobby stud of excellent ped, top line and you will see a nice puppy IMO...

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieRose (Post 2025442)
I am sure to anyone reading this thread who are non-breeders it sounds mean to pick a dog a part..but only the foolish breeder sticks their head in the sand. I do perfer the coat of your girl 4 to the coat of girl 2, but coat is just about the easiest negative to correct..sturcture faults are murder to correct.
Use a cobby stud of excellent ped, top line and you will see a nice puppy IMO...
Well I'm not taking any of your girls advice as mean as I've ask for your honest OPOs and this is what I hope to get. But I can see what you mean about being a non-breeder and it sounding mean. As far as sticking my head in the sand well that could be it too lol. Hopefully if I stick my head in the sand I can pull it back out lol. Going to try to run take photos as you describe in your other post lol. You must of been reading my mind. Thanks for all your honest thoughts and help. Hugs :) Lee

topknot 06-02-2008 07:56 AM
I have found out that you get your better dogs - usually if done right - from your own breeding. Why?? Because you get to pick the best of the litter. You know by watching them - which one is the best. When yo buy a pup - you can only get what they are selling. A good breeder will always keep their best for themself.
Also - JMO - It is very wise to have keep only the best of the best females. It is worth its weight in gold - sort of speaking - to have a superb bitch.
Of course you still want your male and female used for breeding to be as close to our standard as possible! Always do the testing - to make sure they are also healthy examples. The eyes can only see so far.

*********************
Here is a photo of how I hold for a stance. I hold with one hand the tail up and fingers underneath between the legs. The other hand is on the lead, making sure the legs are squared - to show good placement.
T.

topknot 06-02-2008 08:01 AM
4 Attachment(s)
Oops - forget to click download photos. Here they are again -
To show hand placements for stances.
T.

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 10:58 AM
4 Attachment(s)
Girls I'll answer everyone replies later I wanted to get these photo up for you. Sorry it has taken me forever but I had to feed my girls and wait on Hubby to come home and help me take the photos, and as you can see we are by NO means EXPERTs on STACKING or anything when it come to how you Experienced Show Breeders do it all.

I look up to each of you for doing all you do to teach your babies how to perform in a show ring...Anyone who thinks this is easy has another thing coming...Take it from me and my Hubby. LOL And we don't even know all you Show Breeders go through. As you can see from the photos I have SO MUCH to learn!!!! And please don't laugh at us, laugh with us on how we tried to stack them :D

My grooming counter top is really high as you can see and I couldn't do it how it needed to be, I tried to dunk my head but as you can see my arms aren't very long to allow me to do this lol.

I hope these photos will be okay for you to view them with. Let me know your thoughts. :) Lee

These Photos are of Sofie

#3. Sofie (I used their same #s as I did in the very 1st photos I posted)

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 11:01 AM
2 Attachment(s)
These Photos are of Sofie

#3. Sofie (I used their same #s as I did in the very 1st photos I posted)


I love the last photo of Sofie she looks like she was so tired of taking photo and God love her rested her little head on my arm. I do love all my babies. Hugs :) Lee

TeddyandTiffy 06-02-2008 11:05 AM
4 Attachment(s)
Here is Weezie for you all. Let me know what you each think. Hugs :) Lee

All these photos are of Weezie:

#4. Weezie (Her # as in the 1st photos I posted)


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