California Wild's Kennel - Argentina???
 

that is a thread i want to follow....
I have seen his ads for puppies and dogs many times, i do admire his dogs a lot... i have not taken the time to "drop a fone cal" or anything but would love to see what kind of responses this thread will get... Just by reading the pedigrees and information on his dogs the blood lines he mention are excellent and his dogs are beautifull.. although i have seen some "off satandards" advertised as "special features" , i actually am very familiar with most blood lines he mentioned.... Well... i will keep reading it...

I am not aware of this breeder.. but will watch this thead...anne

That's good to know Dena...I had considered at one time purchasing from them and I will certainly do extensive research about the particular dog I'm interested in before I do it. Thanks! :)

California Wild
 

I have purchased a total of 4 yorkies from Javier and They always arrived as he said they would in very well cared for. I did have to do dental and this is to be expected. Javier has always been very kind and helpful with my experience. this is my dealing with Javier

Do you show these dogs? I just noticed how many you have.

I've seen this dog in person...
 

This is very surprising. I saw California Wild's Lion D'Or in Buenos Aires last year. He's very beautiful little dog, outstanding for the price. Was Javier totally unwilling to discuss health issues with you? Are you saying that you have decided not to purhcase him based on a report of a puppy from that kennel possibly having a grade 2 luxating patella? I should check my funds and see if I can buy him myself as he is very very nice for 7K.

For someone not bashing
 

you made a jolly good job of it. I just re-read everything and it looks like maybe Javier is being careful not to sell his dogs to trouble causers. I've met him and seen his dogs and this thread is truly amazing. It looks like he did offer to replace the puppy with the alleged bad knees. Do you think he should offer more? Also, patellas are a touchy subject anyway, and really can't be evaluated fully in puppies under 1 year of age. Most vets can't tell grade 1 from 2, and I've read where it's the grade 4 cases that are considered genetically defective.

:thumbup::thumbup:

I am not "bashing" Javier in the least.... he was very cordial to me and perfectly curteous until I told him that I decided to back out of our agreement to bring Lion home... At that time, he really became quite nasty.

I will say though, that he tells me that he has been harassed by several different people from "breeder groups" and when I started asking questions about the health of his animals, he thought I was attacking him as well. He has apologized for being rude and says that he can "somtimes make like a child".... which is fine, we all can.... all is well with Javier.

I made the decision not to follow through with the purchase of Lion - - yes, mainly based on the information brought to my attention about Lion's son with LP... (not just from a "report of a puppy from that kennle with LP" -Lion is this pup's sire) but also due to his coat being so light.... I was told by a couple of different show breeders to "just have him tinted and put him in there"..... frankly, this is - to me - a question of ethics... and not something I'm willing to get involved in.

I did ask Javier if he thought that Lion's coat would darken... or if some of the photos just made him "look light".... he said he really didn't know and that he would never be a "Make Trouble" but he is a lovely dog.

I just didn't feel 100% comfortable with the purchase. Whether my concerns are justified is really not the issue...

No, I wouldn't HAVE to have him shown... and yes... I'm certain he woud produce a lovely line.... but he also MAY produce puppies with LP and puppies with a lighter than standard coat..... which might be something I would be willing to risk with a 3000.00 dog that I wasn't interested in showing... but at 7k, (plus an additional 15k for a handler) I'm not interested in taking chances.

I am aware that ANY dog - even a World Ch - MAY produce undesirable offspring.... and there are NO guarantees.... but my feelings of indecisiveness regarding the purchase of Lion since the beginning, have been validated IN MY EYES - - whether you agree, is neither here nor there. And if you decide to purchase Lion - I wish you nothing but good experiences. :)

I'm not angry or bitter about the decision I've made....

I did ask Javier about genetic testing for LP, LS, etc on his breeding dogs... which he evidently doesn't do (from what I understand from him) - and I did ask him that IF I decided to proceed with the purchase of Lion as agreed ... and IF my veterinarian found him to have ANY severe medical problems, would Javier be willing to take the dog back in exchange for another dog. He replied "No", that he "didn't want to put his little Lion through that much stress"..... and that he "knows the quality of his dogs"..... which is great, but not much validation for me, personally....

I asked him about the warrantee of his animals... DNA testing, etc. and he avoided the subject... which is fine.... that's his right I suppose....

He seems to be a lovely man... very personable.... and a large part of the whole thing is very likely, my inexperience... and having no knowledge of the international import process (which in and of itself scares me)... and my fear of bringing in a stud, who I hope to base my entire breeding program on... who may have health issues and my having no recourse in the event that he does.

I haven't been raising Yorkies for 20, 30 years like many of you... I DON'T know "all there is to know"... not even close.... but I have raised other breeds over the years, and I do know that no matter what breed you raise, the goal is the same.... quality, well balanced animals of exceptional lines, giving you the best chance at producing offspring who most closely adhere to the standard of the breed.

I have SO MUCH TO LEARN.... and I'm enjoying the journey.... I'd hate for it to fall short prematurely because I put my whole heart, soul (and finances) into a dog who may be very lovely, but who I may have to "replace" in a year because of a few "bad traits".

I feel like I made the right decision not to purchase Lion.

Is this entertainment?
 

Some people have very unreasonable guarantee demands. It's hateful to come on here and bash a respected breeder just because he won't meet somebody's unreasonable expectations. I don't sell to breeders at all, ever, never will and this thread represents one of the reasons why.

Just wanted to say that I had never heard of California Wild, and a few weeks ago, I got Delilah's AKC papers and noticed a couple dogs in her pedigree that have the name "California Wild" in them. Delilah is a beautiful dog, and am proud that she is an offspring to one of the California Wild Yorkies.

That may be true but not very many pet owners are gonna buy a dog for 7k. I know if i was paying that and no matter if I were a pet owner or a breeder I would want an impecable health quarantee. If LP was something they wouldnt quarantee against I wouldnt buy

Say it Chachi - good post !

If I paid 7k for a dog it better have a gold A$#hole!!!!!!:p

LOL...my sentiments exactly. Is that the going for a showable ch sired pup? Yowza....

Huh?
 

You think $7k is too much for a champion? Please point me to a nicer one for that money and I'll buy it myself.

I think it depends on the area where you live. I know someone now that has a nice champion for sale for 3,000. I also saw one for 10,000. neither has sold. Also know where a champion sired litter is now with excellant pedigrees on both sides. Males are 1,000.limited. So apparently it must be the region.

No I dont think thats too much for a champion but I would still expect it to have a full health guarantee. And the breeder should be open to discussions about the guarantee

I do not know this breeder, but

going rate that I have heard for a finished champion is:
10,000 for a good age. You get all health exam before the deal is done to know about the legs, heart, etc... You might get one cheaper if the champion is older.
T.

California Wild's Tiziano
 

[/B]Hi, I want to apologize for bringing up this thread again but I feel I need to fix some misunderstandings. First off, I just now found this topic as I am not a hard core Yorkie Talk person but I am the person who was mentioned on this site.

I'm not sure where the misunderstandings have come from and I only want to speak on my behalf and not on behalf of anyone else.

I am the person in Iowa that purchased one of the son's of CH California Wild's Lion D'or from Javier Coronel in Argentina. What I wanted to say is that my opinion on Dena's decision not to go thru with her purchase of Lion D'or is that she missed out on a great opportunity. I think it was greatly my fault too (from reading her post below). And this is what I am sorry about.

The information Dena had based her decision on was information (bad information) that I had at that time from a couple of Vets as Dena said. Here is what I have learned (the hard way) since 5/08.

First and foremost, [B][U]Vet's ARE NOT perfect people. In fact, the ones I thought at that time were the "best" near my home, aren't so good at all. In fact, sometimes I feel that I know more about dog basics then them and that is seriously frightening!

Yes, CH Lion D'or's son (my dog from California Wild's Kennel) was said to have laxtating patella but it was very very minor and two "best in my area" Vets had completely different opnions. As Dena said, it can come from the momma's side. But what I'm finding, and even in CH dogs, is that NO DOG is 100% perfect, at all. I've heard of dogs withone testical making it far in the ring before it was discovered, earned points, etc. I've heard of dogs with laxtating patella's making it clear thru the points, becomeing "WORLD" champions, and because of that dogs other outstanding qualities, the patella's weren't an issue. How many Judges has anyone watched on TV, wiggles the knees of the CH's being judged? NONE? And please, I'm not knocking anyone and I'm especially not judging Dena or Javier. I'm just giving my opinions and ideas here. And heck, who am I? Nobody! Please just take everything I say with a grain of sale and just form your own opnions.

About my dog (Tiziano) and the teeth. Here's the real butt kicker. The "Stupid" Vet that told me he had 15 baby teeth that needed to come out. I held off on scheduling that surgery (after I talked to Javier about the 1st opinion) and I immediately sought out a 2nd opinion on the teeth and the knees. As I said about the knees.........the Vet opinions didn't match up. About the teeth, the 2nd Vet counted 12 teeth. MY COUNT was only a few. "AND" I don't know my dogs. I admit that. But, I went ahead and went by these two Vet's opinions. I went back to Vet #1, scheduled the appointment for removal, cleaning, and a floride treatment (I think it was). I recall shelling out like $500 or some such amount. And just last month (2/09), I took him back for his annual cleaning. ***(here is where I get pissed) This same Vet, marks on his chart............"Tiziano" is (freaking) MISSING "10" blasted teeth! What the "heck" happened? I was so tempted to go back there and rip some ...you know what. But I haven't. What I've learned, from this experience and from others (involving English Bulldog pups) is that these Vets really don't know it all, AT ALL! I'm sorry, but it's the truth. I need to add to that by saying that this Vet is a small animal Vet and does mostly dogs and cats. Their clinic is in the city and does only cats and dogs. The 2nd Vet I spoke about, they do horses, cattle, and the likes. So, since that experience........I've started attending conventions and lectures that address dogs specifically and all the issues and problems that relate to dogs. And, I've managed to collect some references from breeders that know their stuff (48 year exp. breeder) and I plan to be much more cautious when it comes to Vet advice. If I get Vet advice that is suspicious (from this day forward), I'll call me 48 yr. exp. breeder before I do anything the Vet tells me. These exp. breeders usually have better advice (IMO).

IN CONCLUSION the newest news regarding my relationship with California Wild's Kennel is this. #1) Javier "DID" offer me my money back on Tiziano (5/08) and I am so grateful that I didn't do it. I am currently in the process of buying another female from Javier and she should be here soon (April 2009). I plan to breed this little gal to Tiziano, Javier has assured me that her legs are good, her teeth are fine, he checked her over very very good because of the things with Tiziano. Javier does not want me to have problems, I believe and trust him, otherwise I wouldn't be buying again from him. Again, my biggest apology to Dena for messing her up on buying Lion and to Javier for accusing him of selling bad dogs. I honestly don't think Javier is doing that at all. And my HUGE explaination (I hope) has explained where I believe all the problems have stemed from.

Thanks for listening to my rambeling.
Peggy in Iowa
peggynitro@aol.com:animal36

Thanks Peggy, for reopening this---
 

The 2 California Wild dogs I have are first rate and have been HUGE assets to my breeding.

California Wild in Aregentina
 

I purchased California Wild's Lion D'or from Javier in November '08 and had a very nice experience. I have purchased internationally several times so that aspect did not frighten me. I co-own Lion and he resides with me. He is a wonderful boy. He had been well cared for, obvious by his manners. After reading this thread I am happy to see that Lion's son does not have a bad patella. I checked with several people in the US that had purchased from Havier and they were very happy with their dogs. I hope to be able to make another purchase from Javier in the furture and am looking forward to Lion's babies.

Bad Luck (6/09)?
 

I just want to remain clear on what I said about Lion's son (Tiziano) and his knee issue. I believe I said that he has issues but that they are minor. They've been graded between a 1 and a 3 depending on which Vet you choose to listen to and which knee it is.

Now, I don't want to beat up on any Yorkie Breeders and I love Javiers lines it's just that I had aweful luck with this last purchase with him. I bought "2" CH sired females from Javier back in March. One was estimated to be a 5# adult for breeding, (Kormic Light), and the other one was a smaller girl (to show since she was to small for breeding) and her name was Cabriolet.

Emails went back and forth for several weeks and then suddenly something is mentioned about the small female and her "NEW OWNER". WHAT (I'm thinking). And I write him back (politely) and asked him why he sold my dog. His answer back was that she was to small for me. Even though that was never mentioned before, that was his reason. Later he tells me how sick that dog is for the new owners (supposedly sold locally), etc. And I did manage to keep my cool over that but I was upset with him and I stopped my emails after that. Suddenly (weeks later), I get an email from Javier.... stating that he needs to ship the other dog. (5 pound, CH sired female breeder called Kormic Light)

Great, I can't wait. She arrives finally in June. But WHO arrives?!

Who came in the carrier was some scrubby little female, 18 weeks old and only 2 lbs called Kiss of Live. NO CH lines. To small for breeding, etc.

So I write him and ask him "who the heck is Kiss of Live"? And what he tells me is that Kormic Light dies suddenly and he thinks it was from Hypoglycemia (6 months old). He also tells me that this scrubby little Yorkie was one he held back for him. Sooooo...........would one "assume" that Javier typically breeds 2# females then??

Anyway, I just paid $2600 for a scrubby little female from him and is NOT Champion Sired! Wonderful huh?

NEVER AGAIN!
Peggy