I do not breed.. I do not give advise on breeding, but I do read the breeders forum. It has been my dream since I was a kid to breed dogs, and I have finally found the breed who has stole my heart. I still have many years before I will be in a position to breed, but I figure it's never too early to research and read about breeding. I do feel that posts that have good intentions can easily be taken the wrong way and come across as rude, especially to someone who is new. BakersDozen gave a perfect example of what I was thinking of posting. Response 1 attacked the OP whereas Response 2 did not. I many times see Response 1 type answers and I feel sorry for the OP. I have read a few of these types of responses to my husband and he said it sounds elitist. I don't think this is how anyone intends to sound or even feels... but I really think everyone should sit back and read their post before hitting submit. Make sure there are no personal attacks.

I agree to a point. It is usually the same people who first mention the rudeness....but on many threads, once it is mentioned there are several people who then post that they agree. It's like the lurkers are afraid to post until someone else does. And I don't blame them. It is only recently that I have had the courage to speak up. I lurked for a long time, and read lots of past threads. And just from reading the past threads, I could easily see who is consistently being rude. And I am not in any "group" at all. I rarely pm, and don't know anyone personally on this board. (Now that I think about it, I guess I could be called a bit anti-social :p) Also, I rarely look at how long a person has been here when reading the posts. It doesn't matter to me how much 'seniority' someone has, rude is rude. I truly do appreciate those who show up and give good advice. I only wish it to be given in a kind and tactful manner. I don't think anyone object to the majority of the advice given--only the way it is given. I will say that after the last discussion on this subject, and the thread was closed, there were some people who did not post for a while. And the board was peaceful but informative. That, to me, is very telling.

Tami you sure know how to word things good. Can U give me some lessons? As you already know I'm not good at wording thing lol. What you said in your reply is so true. And thanks for another lesson. Your such a good teacher. Thanks so much for sharing. :) Lee

I understand what you are saying, and don't think anyone object to telling the truth. What is hard to swallow is when breeders and others (not meaning you) post responses like Response #1 above. When they could just as easily post one like Response #2. Now, if after several nice tries the OP just doesn't get it, I can understand being more blunt. But in the long run, like one person here said, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Just because it is the truth, doesn't mean it is good to be blunt and rude. I view it like this: If your child is in line with you at the grocery store, behind a rather large person, and your child says very loudly, "You are so fat!" Do you say, "Oh well, they're just being honest. Nothing wrong with that." I would hope not. What they say may be true, but it is rude to state it that way.

Really, I suppose, the bottom line is that we ALL should try to be more tolerant. And empathetic--put ourselves in the shoes of the poster--whether it be the OP who is getting "bashed" or the passionate breeder who is trying to educate.

Since I've been reading this thread I'll throw my :twocents: in :)

I first don't really go to the Breeder Section, I see the posts when I click "New Posts", but these threads (the educational ones) really do interest me even though I'm not a breeder. I find breeding interesting to learn about, and learning from other peoples experiences. I won't answer any questions on what to do with a litter, or during whelping, or the actual breeding or pregnancy, but I might answer a question that I know the answer too, like if someone was asking if it's o.k to breed a 2lb yorkie...almost all of us here know the answer to that! Sometimes when your reading through, it's a natural reaction to respond, especially if you know the answer. Why people would respond though when they don't know an answer, I have no idea.

As for the "rudeness"..I know it's hard to not be rude when your passionate about something, I'm sure I'm probably guilty of it too, But like others already posted, people need to be tactful. I know if someone attacked me when I asked a question, no matter what it was about, I wouldn't take there answer as serious as I would if they were polite about it. We all love yorkies here, and even if we have to bite our tongue or constantly retype what we say before we click "Submit Reply", I think if people are more tactful then others will take them more seriously, and that can have many positive results. And I know there are those people who will get mad just because you tell them the truth and they don't want to hear it, no matter how nice about it you are, and if they refuse to listen, well we can't force them to listen to us, unfortunately. When people come in wanting to breed a dog that shouldn't be bred, that dogs life could be at risk, or their puppies lives, and it's definitely not good for the yorkie that there owner left here because people were rude to them, their missing out on a lot of good advice from some very knowledgeable breeders, advice that could save a yorkie.

Lee, I love your Yorkie room. May I ask if you used any kind of sealer on the tile? I have heard that the tile can soak up urine from "accidents" without it, but would appreciate your experience with it. What a great idea to run it up the wall! Perfect for those guys who just can't resist marking everything.

Couple quick comments from a non-breeder who enjoys learning why I am not a breeder. ;)

In forums, there is always a bandwagon presence. If someone is rude (duly noted that the definition of rude is subjective), then suddenly there are others who chime in simply repeating what has already been said with the same "tone". The same thing happens as BakersDozen points out, when one person cries foul, other lurkers jump to their defense as well.

The other thing I keep in mind is that crying foul works both ways. Just as those being answered may need to have thicker skin and tough it out through the cold hard facts, should those giving the advice also tough it out without becoming defensive when people question the tone of their responses if they don't agree?

Bottom line - Neither the people getting information they don't like nor those giving advice that is questioned need to leave. I wish there was room for all........

Hello, we welcome all breeders here at YorkieTalk, experienced or new. We are happy to see YT breeders share their knowledge and experiences. If you have personal experience breeding, we suggest you mention that in your posts in the breeder forum. This may give the original poster a better understanding of you and your experience with breeding.

We strongly suggest all members ignore members that they may not get along with. All members should feel free to post their opinions on breeding or breeding topics, if you do not agree with it, you may reply or you may choose to ignore it. You may also add a member to your ignore list and thus will not see any of that member's posts. Arguing over and over about the same topic really won't help either party, it is highly unlikely that you will change the other person's opinons, and vice versa.

Sharing your experiences is what YorkieTalk is all about, and we feel all members should feel they can discuss any issues without fear of being attacked. If you see a question that may be controversial or problematic, there are positive ways to respond and there are negative ways to respond. For example, if someone asks about breeding their 3 pound Yorkie, which is of course dangerous and not recommended, a positive response would be to mention how it is dangerous for the Yorkie and how ethical breeders only breed Yorkies over 5 pounds. A negative response would be to call the poster a name and tell them they are stupid for wanting to do so. If a person wants to breed their 3 pound Yorkie, unfortunately, there is no way for anyone on YT to stop them, however, we hope that by educating them as much as we can, that they will see why it isn't a good idea. Calling them a name will not dissuade them from breeding.

No one should be afraid of posting questions or giving their opinion on YorkieTalk. Complaining about a particular member or a group of members is also unfair. As our community has grown, it simply is not possible for everyone to agree on each and every subject. We're here to learn and share about this wonderful breed. Many actual Yorkie LIVES have been saved as a result of the Breeder forum here, as well as many Yorkie babies. This is what our community is all about, please remember that. This forum is not about you or any problems you may have with another member, it's about Yorkies, the Yorkie moms and babies which may need your help.

Good points. Now that I think about it, in "real life" I hardly ever pay any real attention to rude people....I realize they may have a few good tidbits to offer, but I also figure that if they are that close-minded about one thing then they really have not considered all points of view on many things--which is what a true learner does. If I wanted to hear only one opinion I would certainly stick with them, but that's not what learning is all about. And I have a real aversion to a dogmatic person, on any subject. (I'm not thinking of anyone on this forum as I type this, I'm talking about people I meet on a day-to-day basis.)

^^That^^ is the bottom line for me. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

<grrr> I wish my page updated in real-time. I am forever making posts only to see that by the time I get done with it someone else has posted the same or similar thing. lol

I just wanted to clarify that I have no problem with anyone in particular. There are two or three people on here who I feel are often rude, but for the most part I ignore their comments. And I imagine my posts rub them the wrong way as well, as we disagree on many things. So I figure if they can ignore what they don't like about my opinions, I will do the same. :) Otherwise, I don't take note of the username, there are so many I can't keep them all straight anyway.

OMG, Wylie's Mom, I just read your blog....I LOVE it. It reminds me a bit of my diary--the one I burned to a crisp 17 years ago, petrified of the idea someone would read it after my demise. (Of course, it contained countless mortifying secrets, none of which are now of any importance.)

Edited: Oh yeah, and I would never have had the whole "wedding" thing either. Everyone said, "It's what every little girl dreams of!" I said, "Every little girl but me." At the last minute my husband-to-be decided he wanted one. Imagine my irritation when 6 months later he said, 'you know, looking back, it really wasn't that important.'

I think the Breeders' Forum is here to share experiences and learn from each other. This thread, however, is starting to resemble the one that was closed earlier. Surely there is a problem, either real or perceived, or it wouldn't keep getting brought up. I suggested on the earlier thread that the moderator PM anyone that posts comments that would generally be considered unduly rude, sarcastic etc. and offer a gentle reminder. I realize this is a big site that keep the mods busy, but this is an ongoing thing that needs some attention. I don't expect that they would catch every post as it happened, but while moderating, if something caught their eye, maybe a PM would be in order. I think if we all felt that Admin. had an eye out to maintain a level of civility, we could all relax and use this forum as intended. :aimeeyork :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :)

I guess it is my turn.. I do NOT consider myself and "experienced" breeder, although I grew up in a family that bred Scotties, so I have been around it all of my life. That being said, I, myself, have experienced whelping two litters now. As most of you know, I lost the entire litter the first time.... some may say they were just too small... some may say it was my fault... either way, it just tore me apart. I have since whelped another litter and they have grown to be beautiful 1 year olds as of now. Does that make me experienced?? I don't think so, but I DO know about all of the things that can and DO go wrong. And maybe that doesn't qualify me to post here, but if I can help someone else by letting them know my experience, then I will do so.. and I try to do it in a civil manner. In this thread http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...-breeding.html I just went back and re-read my 1st post to the OP. I said what I said in what I thought was an informative manner, but now see it could be misunderstood. I posted later and told her about losing my babies.., and was happy to see that she actually said it made sense. In my opinion, this OP was very young and stubborn and did not have an open mind to start with. As soon as she mentioned that my post to her actually made sense I felt that it was my duty to develope some kind of friendly rapport with her and hope some of it got thru. I won't take credit for changing her mind.. but I am glad she did come back on and say that she is getting her girl spayed. If she comes back again and asks questions, I will be there to offer help and guidance if that is what she needs. Was I frustrated?? YES... Did I feel like I was talking to a wall?? YES... Did I feel like some of the posters were beating a dead horse?? YES.... Did the end justify the means?? YES... Could it have been accomplished without hard feelings? YES Does the OP have hard feelings?? YES!! Is she less likely to ask questions anymore?? YES....

Sad to say, but a little bit of tact can go a long way... we love our breed.... our hearts hurt to hear of one of our breed in pain or hurt in any way... But NO ONE learns by being beat down... remember when your mom said , "NO, you cannot go out with that boy!" It just made you want to do it even more, didn't it??

I agree, Dee. When you have people that have never whelped a pup but yet has talked to 1,000 vets on the subject, has read every book out there...and they think they know more than those that have actually experienced it...you just shake your head and walk away.

Those breeders are still out there...just pm them.

I agree with this and sugars mom post .I think that is when some of the controversey starts when breeders post and then others come on and put in their book knowledge or hear say when they have never even whelped or raised a litter.

If you see something of concern - all you have to do is hit the ! symbol with the triangle around it - that's the report post icon. If/when a post is reported, I view it the second I am first available to view it - and I know the others do the same. :)

I did not know that thanks for the info.

I hear you. I also have been hearing this THEME over and over and over and over.

SO, there are going to be folks here who are street smart (have whelped a litter) AND there are going to be folks here who are book smart (and may be future breeders, or are just interested):

1) We're all here at the party
2) We're all allowed to post here
3) We need to buck-up, accept it, and find a way to respect the differences instead of continuing to bicker about it

Is it frustrating? OBVIOUSLY. But, what's the right thing to focus on, where should we put our energy? Bashing here and in other places? Bickering and trying to find a solution that won't satisfy everyone, ever? Or, get down to the business of helping breeders and puppies - and working on ourselves to accept all those who are here and committed to the breed?

The truth is that some times the book knowledge can come in handy. Even the most seasoned breeders can learn from new informational sources. After you're at it for a while you can get stuck on old wives tales and info that was once thought to be true but has now become obsolete or even proven to be false. New research is being done all of the time and one should never stop learning. I am happy to hear from someone who is studying genetics and other avenues of health and breeding research whether they breed, are vet students or are studying for some other health related field.

:thumbup:I still read all I can you can never have enough knowledge or experiance

Amber, I agree with you and fit into the fear factor you mentioned!

Why judge? Can't we just help each other and NOT JUDGE?