Responsible Breeders

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by dudley1984

-----------------------------
Doesn't this look like Sandy thinks breeding should be banned? Who else is left? Yes, I know someone is going to come back and say "only responsible breeders should be allowed to breed." Lovely, now who is going to police that? Shutting down puppy mills is probably possible, at least the worst ones. Too much intervention beyond that will only drive the business underground where it will get really sleazy.

ALSO, stop yapping about shelters full of dogs. When is the last time any of you saw a Yorkshire Terrier in a shelter?

Dudley, first of all I want to tell you to PLEASE learn how to use the QUOTE function correctly..I'm not being rude here but anytime you post, it messes up all the quotes people use following you..it makes the thread very confusing.

Okay...no I didn't take from her post that all breeding should be banned. She said she didn't want the government to have to control WHO could breed (think of the mandatory spay/neuter laws popping up everywhere) but she said that if that's what it takes to stop puppymills then so be it. She didn't say she wanted all breeding stopped...she wants all bad breeding stopped. She and many others only want to see REPUTABLE breeders breeding. yes, that would be hard for the government to police...which is why their laws probably won't ever work

And so far as yorkies in shelters....the past two times I've been to the animal shelter here there has been a yorkie! Look at yorkie rescue groups...look at petfinder.com...look at the Rescue forum on this site. There are yorkies in shelters! Lots of them! It is a big problem

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by kathylynch

Donna would be a great spokeperson for the general public. We need her on Oprah!!!!! She surley has heart and soul with some sounk behind it!!!!
Keep telling it Donna!! It must be heard!!!!

OMG...would LOVE to see Donna on oprah haha She'd be great!

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Actually, I don't believe most of the dogs in shelters came from puppymills (although many do)...I believe more come from backyard breeders and irresponsible petowners whose dogs have "accidents" (which would fall under the BYB category). More dogs are born to backyard breeders than puppymills, so both are a terrible problem.

I agree somewhat....I think many come from the unplanned breedings. Also a huge number of dogs in shelters were not bred by any person, planned or not. They resulted from breeding taking place in the "wild". (Talking shelters here, not rescues) I realize too, that it varies by area.

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Dudley, first of all I want to tell you to PLEASE learn how to use the QUOTE function correctly..I'm not being rude here but anytime you post, it messes up all the quotes people use following you..it makes the thread very confusing.

Thank you so much; I couldn't figure out why all the quotes were messed up and though it was something I was doing!

[SandyY]

[quote=dudley1984;1901728][QUOTE=tegamom1;1900550]

Originally Posted by SandyY

Hello all, I'm very new here and this is my first post. I don't own a Yorkie but I'm a very big admirer of the breed. I have a very spoilt Schnauzer and Dachshund....

I would hate for the government to have the control over who can and can't breed dogs but if that's what it takes to put an end to puppy mills, backyard breeders and in-house breeders all I can say is, the sooner the better.[/QUOTE
-----------------------------
Doesn't this look like Sandy thinks breeding should be banned? Who else is left? Yes, I know someone is going to come back and say "only responsible breeders should be allowed to breed." Lovely, now who is going to police that? Shutting down puppy mills is probably possible, at least the worst ones. Too much intervention beyond that will only drive the business underground where it will get really sleazy.

ALSO, stop yapping about shelters full of dogs. When is the last time any of you saw a Yorkshire Terrier in a shelter?

Good now were getting somewhere. You say shutting down puppy mills is probably possible. How would you suggest going about doing that? I really wouldn't want the government regulating any more than they already do, unless that's the only way to get them shut down. I feel if we all work together and try to find solutions before the government steps in, it would be much better for all concerned and I'd really like your input on it.

From what I've read most of the people on here have a spay/nuder policy which is great.
You're right about not finding Yorkies and many other breeds in shelters because the shelters call the rescues. You'll find them in the breed rescues and there are a lot of those with health issues. Their vet bills are extremely high and they have to charge more to adopt just to cover their expenses. The average person isn't going to pay that for a dog who already has health problems.

I know quite a few of you don't agree with breeding to the standard of a breed. The standard is there for a reason, it gives you a guide as to how your dog should look and what to breed for. It's the reason your dog looks like it does today. That goes for all breeds, not just Yorkies.
Sandy

[BakersDozen]

Just to clarify, my comments about breeding to standard were not meant to say that the standard shouldn't be used. I was pointing out that not all "byb" breed unhealthy dogs, some just don't breed to standard. I personally feel that if you're going to do something, it should be done well. And thus a person who wants to breed Yorkies should breed to standard. However, this is just my opinion.

I do not feel that breeders who do everything else right, but choose not to breed to standard (like ones who breed parti's, chocolates, etc.....whatever as long as it doesn't mean a health issue) should be called irresponsible and lumped in with those breeders who breed unhealthy dogs in unhealthy conditions. There is a world of difference between breeding a parti and a puppy mill.

I have more thoughts on this subject, but since it isn't the point of this thread, I will leave it.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by BakersDozen

Just to clarify, my comments about breeding to standard were not meant to say that the standard shouldn't be used. I was pointing out that not all "byb" breed unhealthy dogs, some just don't breed to standard. I personally feel that if you're going to do something, it should be done well. And thus a person who wants to breed Yorkies should breed to standard. However, this is just my opinion.

I do not feel that breeders who do everything else right, but choose not to breed to standard (like ones who breed parti's, chocolates, etc.....whatever as long as it doesn't mean a health issue) should be called irresponsible and lumped in with those breeders who breed unhealthy dogs in unhealthy conditions. There is a world of difference between breeding a parti and a puppy mill.

I have more thoughts on this subject, but since it isn't the point of this thread, I will leave it.

Most backyard breeders do not health screen though.. Their dogs appear healthy in their mind, but you can't just look at a dog and see that it is healthy. More than a simple exam needs to be done to make sure a dog is healthy before breeding. Bloodwork is great too and definitely should be done. I also think Brucellosis testing is a must, Bile Acid Testing should be done, Heart, hips, and patellas checked well by a vet (certification is even better). And I'd like to see thyroid, eyes, and ears checked as well (and there is certification for this if you really want to be on top of things). and the thing about most BYBs is they don't know their dogs pedigrees well at all...it's so important to know the health of the dogs several generations back to make sure you are breeding healthy dogs.

[kathylynch]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Most backyard breeders do not health screen though.. Their dogs appear healthy in their mind, but you can't just look at a dog and see that it is healthy. More than a simple exam needs to be done to make sure a dog is healthy before breeding. Bloodwork is great too and definitely should be done. I also think Brucellosis testing is a must, Bile Acid Testing should be done, Heart, hips, and patellas checked well by a vet (certification is even better). And I'd like to see thyroid, eyes, and ears checked as well (and there is certification for this if you really want to be on top of things). and the thing about most BYBs is they don't know their dogs pedigrees well at all...it's so important to know the health of the dogs several generations back to make sure you are breeding healthy dogs.

Here is a thought what if AKC passed a law on all litters before they were registered parents/puppies would have to be tested for all the above.
They could not have any registration papers untill this was complete.
I know what is going to be said you can't test that young or any other lame excuse that might come up on the post. Well if Akc is truley in it also for the betterment of
the breed this should be somthing to think about. No it won't stop bad owners from dumping dogs but it sure would put the responsibilitie in
the breeders court if they truley are who they say they are they would do this in a heart beat!!!!Take action for there breeding program. I hope this makes sense!!!

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Most backyard breeders do not health screen though.. Their dogs appear healthy in their mind, but you can't just look at a dog and see that it is healthy. More than a simple exam needs to be done to make sure a dog is healthy before breeding. Bloodwork is great too and definitely should be done. I also think Brucellosis testing is a must, Bile Acid Testing should be done, Heart, hips, and patellas checked well by a vet (certification is even better). And I'd like to see thyroid, eyes, and ears checked as well (and there is certification for this if you really want to be on top of things). and the thing about most BYBs is they don't know their dogs pedigrees well at all...it's so important to know the health of the dogs several generations back to make sure you are breeding healthy dogs.

I guess here again, to say that most byb don't health screen, depends on what each person's definition of a backyard breeder is. I really wonder if a lot of the disagreement on this board is really disagreement......or just a difference in terminology.

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by kathylynch

Here is a thought what if AKC passed a law on all litters before they were registered parents/puppies would have to be tested for all the above.
They could not have any registration papers untill this was complete.
I know what is going to be said you can't test that young or any other lame excuse that might come up on the post. Well if Akc is truley in it also for the betterment of
the breed this should be somthing to think about. No it won't stop bad owners from dumping dogs but it sure would put the responsibilitie in
the breeders court if they truley are who they say they are they would do this in a heart beat!!!!Take action for there breeding program. I hope this makes sense!!!

This makes perfect sense, and is a great idea. But first of all, AKC themselves are making $$$ off it. In my opinion (and I realize this is just opinion) they will never make such a requirement because of the $ they would lose. And secondly, people would just go to other registries.

[kathylynch]

Originally Posted by BakersDozen

This makes perfect sense, and is a great idea. But first of all, AKC themselves are making $$$ off it. In my opinion (and I realize this is just opinion) they will never make such a requirement because of the $ they would lose. And secondly, people would just go to other registries.

Well I think it should not be about the money at this point as alot of what ever you want to lable them as make alot of money off these babies anyway
and they do not health screen and so on and so forth and the new owners that get these babies end up hurting if they get sick babies and put out alot of$$$. or surrendering them to rescues or putting them to sleep whatever
the case maybe. So if the AKC got tougher on there reg. maybe
it would help a little. as far as going to other reg. let them I don't know
I just do know that somthing needs to be done for real!!!It is very heartbreaking
when you here someone buys a sick yorkie and they die within 3mths.
-12 and the breeder does not back them up just blames it on other things.
who really knows. I just think there should be a quailty control on puppys being sold. And sure the responsible breeders will do this but what about
all the others.

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by kathylynch

Well I think it should not be about the money at this point as alot of what ever you want to lable them as make alot of money off these babies anyway
and they do not health screen and so on and so forth and the new owners that get these babies end up hurting if they get sick babies and put out alot of$$$. or surrendering them to rescues or putting them to sleep whatever
the case maybe. So if the AKC got tougher on there reg. maybe
it would help a little. as far as going to other reg. let them I don't know
I just do know that somthing needs to be done for real!!!It is very heartbreaking
when you here someone buys a sick yorkie and they die within 3mths.
-12 and the breeder does not back them up just blames it on other things.
who really knows. I just think there should be a quailty control on puppys being sold. And sure the responsible breeders will do this but what about
all the others.

I agree........perhaps it would help if the AKC were stricter. It would at least weed out those breeders who do not health test...or I guess more accurately put it would create a registry used by only those who health test.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by BakersDozen

I guess here again, to say that most byb don't health screen, depends on what each person's definition of a backyard breeder is. I really wonder if a lot of the disagreement on this board is really disagreement......or just a difference in terminology.

To be honest I think it's a difference in terminology...to me a BYB doesn't care about health being the #1 priority, does not health test and doesn't know the pedigrees and just cranks out puppies and goes on about their merry little way....responsible breeders care about the health, they do tests and breed to the best of the representation as possible and it doesn't matter whether you show or not you just breed responsibly not just fi fi to foo foo you do the research and educate yourself and make sure your dogs are healthy....even show breeders will have an off color, or wrong ear set, off top line so hence selling to a pet home on a spay and neuter contract. Show breeders do not always have something they will take in the ring but the pup is healthy because at least for me I've tested my dogs and know their pedigree and so forth and I would expect those that don't show to at least follow a similar plan of action.

And NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I would'nt even consider going on Oprah because I am NOT a public speaker LOL!!!!

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

To be honest I think it's a difference in terminology...to me a BYB doesn't care about health being the #1 priority, does not health test and doesn't know the pedigrees and just cranks out puppies and goes on about their merry little way....responsible breeders care about the health, they do tests and breed to the best of the representation as possible and it doesn't matter whether you show or not you just breed responsibly not just fi fi to foo foo you do the research and educate yourself and make sure your dogs are healthy....even show breeders will have an off color, or wrong ear set, off top line so hence selling to a pet home on a spay and neuter contract. Show breeders do not always have something they will take in the ring but the pup is healthy because at least for me I've tested my dogs and know their pedigree and so forth and I would expect those that don't show to at least follow a similar plan of action.

And NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I would'nt even consider going on Oprah because I am NOT a public speaker LOL!!!!

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

haha..I think you could do it

[SandyY]

Originally Posted by BakersDozen

This makes perfect sense, and is a great idea. But first of all, AKC themselves are making $$$ off it. In my opinion (and I realize this is just opinion) they will never make such a requirement because of the $ they would lose. And secondly, people would just go to other registries.

I agree with Bakers Dozen on this. AKC is making a lot of money off the puppy mills and I think that's one reason they haven done anything to stop them. She's also right about them going to other registries.
Maybe if all the breeders bombarded not just AKC but all the registries with request for something to be done about them reregistering puppy mill dogs they would find a way to at least cut them back and eventually stop them all together.