Well, to me that is still fairly new. I just really started hearing a lot more about them in the last few years. Sometimes with science and research we don't find out until years later what the real dangers might be. I am glad to hear your dogs are doing well.

I am wondering if it makes any difference having our blood panels done on our puppies before or after their first vaccines. I know that I have read and even been told that even high protein dog foods can cause those blood panels to have false readings. I now wonder if I should get those done before any vaccines are given.

I am a firm believer that we over vaccinate our animals. There is alot of research out there to support this. The building up toxins in their livers would make sense because all that stuff filters through there. I also do not believe in routine worming, etc. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Too much medication can be unhealthy for any animal or human.

Great and informational post!:thumbup: :thumbup:

Vaccinations will effect the blood panel. Now they are saying it also effects the bile acid tests. My best advise would be don't have a blood panel or bile acid test done within 4 weeks of vaccinations.

Darn it!! Now I'm all paranoid about this stuff. Riley got his shots at 9 to 12 weeks. No lepto!! Thank god. He got his Rabies shot and chip when he was 6 months old.:(

Interesting. So, I'm really curious about the spike of puppies dying between 6 and 20 weeks. Can you tell us more about that PLEASE?

What is genetic digestive anomoly? Why do you think PSS is being overdiagnosed?

This website has very good information on how over vaccination compromises the immune system, please go do to the part where it says 'Vaccines: As Anticipated' and everyone please read carefully and just think about it.
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/animal_vaccines.htm

I start shots on my puppies around 11 weeks. I use to sell my pups at 6 to 7 weeks and never had any problems. I know now that was not a wise thing to do. Now I am keeping my pups longer. I have to admit that I occasionally sell at 8 or 9 weeks but mainly I have been keeping until 10 to 12 weeks. Depending on when they go to their new home, sometimes they are vaccinated first and sometimes they are not.

I give half shots to my puppies starting at 9 weeks and don't give Rabies shots until a year old and never lepto.
Heartworm meds are started at 6 months after they have had the blood test to make sure no heartworms. I do not worm my puppies unless they have worms and that is checked in their fecal exam when taken in for first set of shots. I can't really understand why anyone would not give heartworm meds especially when you live in the Texas area where mosquitos are so abundant even if the puppies don't go outside, mosquitos can come inside when you open the door...JMHO....and again especially around the coastal area where water and humidity are breeding grounds for mosquitos! If you don't test your dogs you'll never know if they have heartworms and I've seen so many cases lately in this area where dogs are having to go in for heartworm treatments so it's hard for me to see dogs not being given heartworm meds, again, JMHO...
Ok, I'm done LOL...I couldn't let this one pass :)

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Well now Missy lol (Just teasing on the Missy part :D ) it's good to hear U're Valuable Input!! Truly it is. & I'm glad U couldn't let this one pass. I love to get others thoughts no matter what they are!

U should see that sample (It that's what u call it...NASTY is what I call it) of that heart in our Vets office, makes me sick to think that could happen to any dog. I do use it for the heartworm, mosquitos are so bad here in the spring, summer and now fall due to it being so warm & humid here too. We're suppose to get up to 5" of rain through Friday & under a Flood Watch now so I hate to see what there gonna be like now and our back yard does tend to have puddles of water. Can I ask what U use for heartworms?

They do get in our house sometimes too, My youngest daughter never gets bit, but U should see my next to the youngest daughter, she is a magnet for them, even with stuff on, if there's one in the house it will find her. They have to come inside right before the sun sets here. :)


This website has very good information on how over vaccination compromises the immune system, please go do to the part where it says 'Vaccines: As Anticipated' and everyone please read carefully and just think about it.
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/animal_vaccines.htm

I start shots on my puppies around 11 weeks. I use to sell my pups at 6 to 7 weeks and never had any problems. I know now that was not a wise thing to do. Now I am keeping my pups longer. I have to admit that I occasionally sell at 8 or 9 weeks but mainly I have been keeping until 10 to 12 weeks. Depending on when they go to their new home, sometimes they are vaccinated first and sometimes they are not.

I'll go read up on it. Can I ask what U're new apopted parents think about them not having any shots? Does it upset any of them by them not having their shots? Just wondering I know when someone here is looking for Yorkie Puppies that is one of the 1st things they ask. Thanks for U're info. :)

Before my puppies leave they have all their shots. I wouldn't let them go if they hadn't. 9 weeks, 12 weeks and 15 weeks. I should have all my dogs mirco chipped but just haven't done it. I do, however, recommend it :)
I will only comment on my breeding program and what I do. I will not advise anyone else what to do :)

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

If I sell a puppy at 9 or 10 weeks then I just explain to them that it is time to start their shots and they have no problems with that. They have to take the puppy to the vet anyway for a wellness checkup and it is better that their vet starts the vaccination series. Some of the puppies I keep longer and those I start vaccinating at around 11 weeks.

In regards to heartworms, please read the following information and you will understand my feelings on this.
http://quikonnex.com/channel/item/13049
http://www.nbc5i.com/family/3345322/detail.html
http://www.theherbsplace.com/Heartwo...on_sp_104.html

Everyone has to make choices based on all the information available. I do not let vets or anyone else use scare tactics to convinced me that I need to give my indoor pets a monthly dose of poison.

Looooong
 

Genetic anomalies are just that, anomalies.... I'm just not sure, something doesn't sync correctly during the formation of the genetic structure... Thus leading to a issue in what ever system is effected... anomalies can occur in the vacuolar system as well. It can effect every puppy in a litter or only one.... That is why careful screening is so important.....See, allowing puppies to leave prior to 12 weeks, 15 is even better, gives breeders a chance to see a fully functioning system and determine if there is a problem. Often buyers will let you know, but some don't or the problem is misdiagnosed.

The subject of vaccinations and half dosing also plays into the deaths of puppies when early vaccination is used as well since the digestive and immune system are sort of dependent on each other.…. Mini doses (especially of "killed vaccines") suppress rather than boost the system …. Understand that I do believe in the short term, vaccinations have done a good job of controlling distemper and parvo. However, there is significant study that at least our current protocols have long term effects we are just now realizing….. Possibly autoimmune diseases or immune-mediated issues…. We are labeling all kinds of things as “well, it must be a liver shunt” when in reality there is a problem with toxins not being flushed do to anomalies possibly caused by over vaccinating or certain genetic glitches we aren’t aware of. We can't stop all genetic anomalies of course, but we can eliminate one cause... Over vaccination...

At our kennel, we do not vaccinate prior to the 10th week since we do not routinely allow puppies to leave until the 15th post natal week. We generally only use MLV rather than “killed viruses.” Our studies have brought us to the following conclusions:
Maternal immunity lasts far beyond the 8th week and vaccinating prior to this can prompt the puppy’s immune system to fight the vaccine itself and cause complete vaccination failure. Most vaccines create an immunologic memory. It is also very important again not to split vaccines (ie half dose) if you are using not using MLV. Canine Immune Responses:
1. 45 days into gestation: functional immune system performing
2. Birth – week 1: temp of 99’ F needed to maintain maternal immune response
3. week 2 – 4 colostral antibodies begin to decline
4. week 4 -6 (general weaning period) decreasing vitamin E and selenium effect immune response. (We only feed dry kibble…no soft food and are careful to make sure all puppies are eating well as to insure consistent levels of VE and Selenium)
5. week 8 – 10 window of vulnerability (ie maternal immunity is wearing down and puppies immune system must take up the slack…. If immunizations are begun at this time, maternal immunity will neutralize the antigens and the vaccine is basically ineffective
6. week 10 booster #1
7. week 14 booster #2
8. Week 18 booster #3
9. Week 22 final booster
10. Month 6 fully mature immune system exists
11. 1 year MLV booster + Rabies = 3 yr rabies & lifelong immunity (distemper and parvo) Titer testing in some studies suggest that yearly boosters are ineffective as the original antigens destroy the new vaccine. No effect was noted.

PS... on microchips
 

We routinely microchip every dog in our kennel......:) (put a smiley face says my son) we haven't noticed any long term issues as of yet..... :) I may have said that already:rolleyes: .....

Vaccinations and Heartworm Medicine
 

Hi everyone... I'm new to Yorkietalk, and I find this thread very interesting and informative. I appreciate all the websites that have been posted about vaccinations, heartworm medicine, and chipping. I have been searching the web for this kind of information and it was right here! My poor baby cannot have vaccinations, etc. right now, and maybe never, so all this information is
very helpful. Thanks!

:thumbup: :thumbup: I very much agree with all of this. I will never not give my dog heartworm preventative while living in Texas. Mosquitos get in my house all the time! It never really gets cold here and heartworms are really a danger all year long which is why I give preventative all year. The drugs in the preventative do not act upon the dog...they only have an affect on the worms so its not poison.

I've dissected dogs in anatomy class with heartworms...you can't imagine how discusting it is..it's like pulling spaghetti out of the heart. The dog's heart was so packed with heartworms I don't know how it held any blood..and the worms were spilling out into the lungs. I will never risk that with my dog...and the treatment is so hard on them. You have to keep them kenneled for months because they can die if you don't (dying heartworms will go into the lungs if they aren't kept still). It's just not worth it...I will always give heartworm meds.

Me too. I've always used Sentinel. What do you use?

heartguard plus

I will always give heart worm preventative because my corgi mix some time back had heartworms and that is what made him take a turn for the worse and we had to put him to sleep because he was older and couldn't handle the treatments for heartworms and when you have to experience something as tramatic as putting your dog to sleep for heartworms and congestive heart failure it's unbearable so I will NEVER not have my dogs on heartworm preventative no matter how many dogs I have.
Only reason I see some not keeping dogs on heartworm meds is either they have too many dogs and it eats at the profit or more research needs to be done. I've seen the links provided and I for one do NOT believe it's posion and unless my vet tells me otherwise I can't take the risk not having my dogs on heartworm meds....and I'm one that hates giving too many vacs to an animal....JMHO
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

I also hate seeing animals overvaccinated as well...I don't like giving them unnecessary things or things that do more harm than good. Some vaccination is wonderful but too much can be harmful. I do always give regular flea and heartworm preventatives...heartworm for reasons I already stated. Flea because 2 of my pets are very allergic to them and because fleas are TERRIBLE around here and once you get them, it is a pain in the butt to get rid of them

It's a good thing I don't have to deal with fleas :) Our yard is treated and so far so good. I've had to give Advantage a couple of times but that's it :) On the very few occassions I've taken my dog with me to go out of town to my in laws when they lived in the country I would then have to give flea stuff but since most of my dogs stay home and our yard is treated we dont' have a flea problem. We have only one neighbor that has dogs and they treat their yard and dogs too so we are very lucky in that aspect. I don't know what my dogs would do if they were never allowed outside. They love to go out and sun themselves and I believe the sun and outdoors is good for them. Makes them healthy and helps with their immune system :)
I hate giving things I dont' have too....

You can read a little about how Ivermectin (what's used in Heartgard) works and why it only harms the worms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

Ivermectin kills by interfering with nervous system and muscle function, in particular by enhancing inhibitory neurotransmission. The drug binds and activates glutamate-gated chloride channels (GluCls) present in neurons and myocytes, resulting in neuro-muscular paralysis and death.

Although similar in structure to vertebrate ionotropic glycine receptors, glutamate-gated chloride channels are specific to invertebrates (Dent, 2006). The absence of glutamate-gated chloride channels from mammals appears to account in part for the specificity of ivermectin for invertebrate parasites and its relative lack of side effects in mammalian hosts

I've had so many people tell me they never had a problem with fleas...so lucky. I didn't until last summer and it was aweful. It all started when I took Lacy to someone's house that had fleas :( It was bad.. If I had a house where they never left my yard, I'd probably try to go without it too...a lot of people don't have issues with fleas. But where I live I have to walk my dogs around the complex and there are lots of dogs around and I take them to daycare sometimes where I know grooming dogs come in with fleas..fleas just stink!..at least I get free flea preventatives through school

You're lucky LOL...but I'm glad I don't have the flea problem. I've had a case when I had to groom a cocker spaniel and he was dripping in fleas and man did I have to get Advantage and hubby had to retreat the yard that was a mess and thank goodness I don't do that dog anymore and now no fleas that I have seen in about 2 years :)

well, no problems so far this year..but fleas are just starting to show up around here I think...ugh..hope I can avoid the nasty things this year!

Maybe you can!