YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community
Page 4 of 16 123 4 567814 Last »
Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   Breeder Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/)
-   -   Bile Acid Testing (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/breeder-talk/120810-bile-acid-testing.html)

dudley1984 03-12-2008 07:20 AM
cost vs benefit again...
 
Kudos to all you breeders who have unlimited time and money to be running to the vet to test for every possible problem...I put my money first into purchasing breeding stock from well known and respected exhibitors with some history behind them. Next I see to it they get all the reasonable and customary health care and screenings before they are actually bred. I pour a ton of money into pre and post natal care, keeping everybody healthy and safe. My puppies visit the vet at least three times before leaving home. I do not subject them to blood tests unless they look sick. My health guarantee is intended to cover the occasional liver shunt puppy that I'm finding out is just about impossible to avoid !!! This is all carefully explained to customers ahead of time. In the event of a problem they get thier money back. So far everybody is happy with the arrangement. Also, all my puppies go with limited AKC registration and spay/neuter contracts, to I don't have to worry about somebody carelessly breeding a shunt carrier.

blitz 03-12-2008 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudley1984 (Post 1843372)
Kudos to all you breeders who have unlimited time and money to be running to the vet to test for every possible problem...I put my money first into purchasing breeding stock from well known and respected exhibitors with some history behind them. Next I see to it they get all the reasonable and customary health care and screenings before they are actually bred. I pour a ton of money into pre and post natal care, keeping everybody healthy and safe. My puppies visit the vet at least three times before leaving home. I do not subject them to blood tests unless they look sick. My health guarantee is intended to cover the occasional liver shunt puppy that I'm finding out is just about impossible to avoid !!! This is all carefully explained to customers ahead of time. In the event of a problem they get thier money back. So far everybody is happy with the arrangement. Also, all my puppies go with limited AKC registration and spay/neuter contracts, to I don't have to worry about somebody carelessly breeding a shunt carrier.

This isn't some minor problem. You'll dock their tails but not subject them to a blood test? :confused:

If you produce an LS puppy, then you are the one who bred a shunt carrier aren't you?

dudley1984 03-12-2008 07:39 AM
actually, no
 
I rarely dock tails. It is a barbaric practice insisted upon only by American breeders, and I haven't quite figured out why... Under pressure I dock if I think I'll get a show prospect out of a litter, and I'll soon stop that too. ALL Yorkies are shunt carriers, some worse than others because of indiscriminate breeding.

bchgirl 03-12-2008 07:49 AM
Many times I read...someone is "breeding to better the breed"...and wouldn't you think...bettering the breed would mean testing for genetic issues would, indeed, be..."bettering the breed"? Let's face it...a yorkie within perfect standards isn't perfect if it has liver shunt. :(

dudley1984 03-12-2008 07:59 AM
cost vs benefit
 
By all means if you don't study your pedigrees and breed in a selective manner, then you should be running the appropriate bloodwork. There is no lab test yet that will identify a carrier, however. It will only tell you if there's evidence of shunting in the dog being tested.

scoobiedooiscoo 03-12-2008 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 1843184)
I'm really surprised your vet would say this. Ultrasounds are only 60-80% accurate and don't show MVD. They can be a waste of money. BAT comes first. I wouldn't waste my money on an u/s if the BAT didn't indicate it was needed.
i would think a bat and orprotien c test. lacey had the protien c test and it came back showing she has mvd. its only like 75 bucks and well worth it to me.

blitz 03-12-2008 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudley1984 (Post 1843405)
ALL Yorkies are shunt carriers, some worse than others because of indiscriminate breeding.
On what do you base this information? How does indiscriminate breeding worsen the problem?

blitz 03-12-2008 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobiedooiscoo (Post 1843511)
i would think a bat and orprotien c test. lacey had the protien c test and it came back showing she has mvd. its only like 75 bucks and well worth it to me.
How is she doing being an MVD dog? Does she have any special needs?

Tiramisu 03-12-2008 08:45 AM
Is a dog with LS always a carrier OR can they just be a passthrough?

dudley1984 03-12-2008 09:01 AM
It's very complicated...
 
All Yorkies are carriers based on the polygenic nature of the liver shunt problem. You have to study your pedigrees to know which combination of bloodlines are least likely to produce shunt puppies. Science may one day give us a shortcut, but until then there is no substitute for knowing what is in your bloodlines. Indiscriminate breeding is what got us into this whole shunt mess. You randomly put two dogs together and count on blood tests to tell you if you have a health problem. Give me a break...

my2boyz 03-12-2008 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudley1984 (Post 1843625)
All Yorkies are carriers based on the polygenic nature of the liver shunt problem. You have to study your pedigrees to know which combination of bloodlines are least likely to produce shunt puppies. Science may one day give us a shortcut, but until then there is no substitute for knowing what is in your bloodlines. Indiscriminate breeding is what got us into this whole shunt mess. You randomly put two dogs together and count on blood tests to tell you if you have a health problem. Give me a break...

I agree that you have to know what's in your bloodline but your way can only be accurate if you trust the people giving you the health information on their bloodlines before you breed. I just don't think having tests done can ever be a bad thing. I don't want to wake up someday and have to feel guilty about the dogs I've bred and the puppies they've produced.

scoobiedooiscoo 03-12-2008 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz (Post 1843534)
How is she doing being an MVD dog? Does she have any special needs?
now that we have all her meds and diet figured out she is doing better and doesnt have many seizures or wobbling anymore but we cant seem to get her weight back on her. its not cheap having a dog with mvd but i wouldnt give her up for the world. she is on lactulose,amoxi drops LD food and someherbal things, sometimes metronitazol. all her fruits and veggies are organic and she has reverce osmosis water.

blitz 03-12-2008 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudley1984 (Post 1843442)
By all means if you don't study your pedigrees and breed in a selective manner, then you should be running the appropriate bloodwork. There is no lab test yet that will identify a carrier, however. It will only tell you if there's evidence of shunting in the dog being tested.

Thank you, but if you don't test your dogs, how do you know they don't have MVD?

blitz 03-12-2008 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobiedooiscoo (Post 1843745)
now that we have all her meds and diet figured out she is doing better and doesnt have many seizures or wobbling anymore but we cant seem to get her weight back on her. its not cheap having a dog with mvd but i wouldnt give her up for the world. she is on lactulose,amoxi drops LD food and someherbal things, sometimes metronitazol. all her fruits and veggies are organic and she has reverce osmosis water.
You know, from my interpretation of some of Sharon's work, she believes that symptomatic MVD dogs are extremely rare. It seems to me that she feels that symptomatic MVD dogs are most likely misdiagnosed shunts (not that she couldn't have MVD, as well. Have you spoken to her?

blitz 03-12-2008 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudley1984 (Post 1843625)
You randomly put two dogs together and count on blood tests to tell you if you have a health problem. Give me a break...

How about testing them before they are put together. I think that makes more sense.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:31 PM.
Page 4 of 16 123 4 567814 Last »
Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168