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-   Animal Protection and Welfare (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/animal-protection-welfare/)
-   -   Proposed new aphis regulation (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/animal-protection-welfare/247956-proposed-new-aphis-regulation.html)

Nancy1999 07-26-2012 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3981098)
In the bill, there is no definiton of breeding bitches!. The number is NOT WRONG, and it is baldly stated in the bill numerous times.l

Please post the link to the USDA licensing requirement, that shows breeding dogs can be kept in a home environment

Nancy you have not answered my question; HAVE you READ the LOSEY submission?
I'm sorry I haven't been able to spend as much time on this, I've been really busy. No I haven't read the Losey submission, I'll try to get to it today. Here's the USDA RULES AND REGULATIONS pdf. http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/dat...-2/26_2_rr.pdf People say this says thing it doesn't say, for example, on page 166, it says, "b) Shelter shall be provided for dogs kept outdoors.
Sufficient clean bedding material or other means of
protection from the weather shall be provided, Many people say that this means dogs must be kept out doors and this isn't true. If you read the list of regulations, these are minium standards, you can always provide a higher standard. http://www.pabulletin.com/secure/dat...-2/26_2_rr.pdf

I think the key words in this proposal, it that it's targeting those breeders who sell to the public "sight unseen". Do any of you breeders sell your dogs this way? This is for those breeders who sell over the internet with a click of an button and they have never met the buyer and the buyer has never seen the dog. Read this for more information: HSVMA Urges Veterinary Professionals to Support USDA Proposal to Regulate Unlicensed Large-Scale Commercial Breeding Facilities. These breeders will now have to live up to the same standards as those who sell to pet stores. I don't understand why you don't think this is right.

Nancy1999 07-26-2012 08:38 AM
Gail, I just read Losely arguement, and he's full of it. It's packed full of lies and scare tactics, why would dog end up getting Parvo? He's probably one of the attorneys for "Purebred Breeders LLC", they are based in Florida. This is exactly the type of propaganda that the commercial breeders spred, scarying the hell out of small breeders. Please, I urge you all to read this document before you decide that it's a bad law. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/publicatio...l_pets_faq.pdf

Quote:
Q. How will this affect Internet, phone- and mail
order retailers?
A. The proposal will affect these retailers if they
currently sell their pet animals to buyers sight-unseen.
Pet animal retailers will have a choice. They can
either sell their animals to buyers who physically
enter a place of business or residence to observe
the animals available for sale prior to purchase or to
take custody of the animals after purchase, or they
can obtain a license under the AWA and allow APHIS
inspectors to inspect their facility.

Q. How will this affect retailers who sell their
animals to buyers in face-to-face transactions at a
location other than their own premises?
A. The proposed rule is designed to close a loophole
in the current regulations that allows pet animals to be
sold sight-unseen, without any oversight by the public
or APHIS. Pet animal retailers who sell their animals
to their customers in face-to-face transactions at a
location other than their own premises are subject to
some degree of public oversight and therefore are not
the focus of this proposed rule and would not need to
obtain a license.
Q. How would this proposal affect rescue groups
that participate in off-site adoption events?
A. As mentioned above, persons who engage in
face-to-face transactions at a location other than their
premises, which include off-site adoption events,
are subject to some degree of public oversight and therefore are not
the focus of this proposed rule and would not need to
obtain a license.
So if you sell out of your own home, it will not affect you at all. Honestly, if this stops a breeder from breeding, they shouldn't be breeding in the first place.

concretegurl 07-26-2012 12:08 PM
Am I wrong in that rescues are scared vecause they cannot now transport to the adopters home for adoption?

Its saying even rescue adopters and breeders who use curriers would be affected?

I might not be able to go to a breeder who would use a Currier to deliver a pup this affectsa lot of not only reputable breeders but buyers like me with a geographic issue in adopting

Nancy1999 07-26-2012 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by concretegurl (Post 3981774)
Am I wrong in that rescues are scared vecause they cannot now transport to the adopters home for adoption?

Its saying even rescue adopters and breeders who use curriers would be affected?

I might not be able to go to a breeder who would use a Currier to deliver a pup this affectsa lot of not only reputable breeders but buyers like me with a geographic issue in adopting
It really doesn't say that, those sites that are backed by commercial breeders say it says that, but it doesn't. Don't forget one of the fastest growing scams are breeders who run rescues. They are free to sell their sickly dogs with no strings attached and no lemon laws to help consumers. Legitimate rescues won't be affected.
Quote:
Q. How would this proposal affect rescue groups
that participate in off-site adoption events?
A. As mentioned above, persons who engage in
face-to-face transactions at a location other than their
premises, which include off-site adoption events,
are subject to some degree of public oversight and
therefore are not the focus of this proposed rule and
would not need to obtain a license.
As long as the rescue conducts some type of face to face transaction, they are exempt. Also, the humane society and shelters are exempt.

Quote:
Q. What does this mean for State, county, or city
owned and operated pounds and shelters, as well
as humane societies and other organizations that
contract with those jurisdictions?
A. This proposed rule would have no effect on State,
county, or city owned and operated pounds and
shelters, or humane societies and other organizations
that contract with those jurisdictions. These public
agencies are exempt from regulation under the AWA.

concretegurl 07-26-2012 12:26 PM
I hope that, really there should be cear wording on breeders who use curriers to deliver ups...I guess I or an other buyer could also kust plan a trip...

Nancy1999 07-26-2012 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by concretegurl (Post 3981789)
I hope that, really there should be cear wording on breeders who use curriers to deliver ups...I guess I or an other buyer could also kust plan a trip...
I don't think it says anything about using curriers, you could still do that, but if you sell without buyers seeing how you keep the breeding dogs, you have to be licensed, just like those breeders who sell to pet stores and brokers. Since puppy buyers don't want to take the time to inspect the breeding conditions, we need the government to do it for them. I'd prefer pet buyers to do it,and I will continue to recommend that people don't buy over the internet. I think only a lousy breeder wouldn't want to meet the puppy buyer face to face.

concretegurl 07-26-2012 12:37 PM
Lots of ppl on yt meet ther breeder here and over time get to know eachother and then get a pup.

But yeah just buying over the net was a HUGE mistake I made before, had I seen the lace I might not have Elvis.

Nancy1999 07-26-2012 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by concretegurl (Post 3981799)
Lots of ppl on yt meet ther breeder here and over time get to know eachother and then get a pup.

But yeah just buying over the net was a HUGE mistake I made before, had I seen the lace I might not have Elvis.
Yes, I know, and I also know that there are some really bad breeders who sell on Yorkietalk. If these breeders have more than 4 breeding females, they will now need a license. How is that a bad thing?

So glad you got Elvis though!

caw 07-26-2012 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3981793)
I don't think it says anything about using curriers, you could still do that, but if you sell without buyers seeing how you keep the breeding dogs, you have to be licensed, just like those breeders who sell to pet stores and brokers. Since puppy buyers don't want to take the time to inspect the breeding conditions, we need the government to do it for them. I'd prefer pet buyers to do it,and I will continue to recommend that people don't buy over the internet. I think only a lousy breeder wouldn't want to meet the puppy buyer face to face.
I agree with you on this Nancy 100%.

caw 07-26-2012 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3981805)
Yes, I know, and I also know that there are some really bad breeders who sell on Yorkietalk. If these breeders have more than 4 breeding females, they will now need a license. How is that a bad thing?

So glad you got Elvis though!
This is true as well.....and I heartily agree with you.

gemy 07-26-2012 03:47 PM
Nancy yes I have sold a pup "sight" unseen prior to the sale. Of course the person saw internet pictures of the parents and pup. They did not come to my home to see the pups. We did meet at a show some 1000 miles distant from my home.

And I have now read the AWA in terms of what is needed to abide to the "full" letter of their regulations. And quite simply a breeder who wants to raise their pups and dogs in home, could not satisfy their requirements.

You can't sanitize a Home! You will have sharp edges. And to tell me that swimming, and treadmill work, does not count as "exercise" WTF?

I'm not going to keep my dogs to just one section of my home, in their crates for the most part, in order to fulfill AWA guidelines. Plus recent research has indicated no slip flooring along with other things, has a positive effect for puppies not developing or developing less severe hip dysplasia.

I do not support this change in regulation at all. My belief is that it will affect many small hobby breeders to their, and eventually to the public's detriment.

lisaly 07-26-2012 04:50 PM
Like other members on YT, I wanted a baby who is healthy and who was given a lot of love and care by her breeder. I ended up getting a three year old retired female who had been shown and bred by a show breeder who loved my little girl dearly. Katie was given so much love, attention, exercise, and training by her breeder, and it shows in her confidence, special disposition, and unbelievably wonderful personality. I am so very grateful that Katie's breeder trusted me with her baby, and I am so lucky to I was able to get her from a breeder who raised Katie as part of her family. I fear that breeders like Katie's would be affected by this legislation, breeders who put their heart and soul into raising healthy, well-adjusted and very loved babies. I signed the petition a couple of weeks ago and would very much like to support breeders who are devoted to their babies.

yorkietalkjilly 07-26-2012 04:58 PM
Breeders are apparently going to have to give up some things they now enjoy to get some needed change and that includes charging more money for dogs. Does anybody know of legislation our reputable breeders are willing to accept since what is on the books now - current laws and the present ways are not working?

concretegurl 07-26-2012 05:12 PM
I can say I see why the Beers of Teapup.com raise dogs is a kennel as they do...years ago they weretold their small show program in their home was unsatisfactory as the6y couldnt satisfy local regualtions on a sterile enviroment due to a kitchen in use in their home...some disgree with their large scale mlti breed and pet only programs which support their show lines and expebses not their personal income, so we need to be careful what or more so how we ask for accountability to regulations

I wonder if we are Paving where a show breeder will someday turn oer all their pet qualiy and retired dogs to rescue to be homed so they arent scrutanized in attempts to shut out pupmills byb greeders and otherwise irreptubable people selling dogs.

I will never regret getting my Elvis roo but yes I will be the firat to say I adopted in a shamefully unproductive way in the breeding I fin an cially supported via his adoption.

magicgenie 07-26-2012 05:18 PM
Perfect
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemy (Post 3981952)
Nancy yes I have sold a pup "sight" unseen prior to the sale. Of course the person saw internet pictures of the parents and pup. They did not come to my home to see the pups. We did meet at a show some 1000 miles distant from my home.

And I have now read the AWA in terms of what is needed to abide to the "full" letter of their regulations. And quite simply a breeder who wants to raise their pups and dogs in home, could not satisfy their requirements.

You can't sanitize a Home! You will have sharp edges. And to tell me that swimming, and treadmill work, does not count as "exercise" WTF?

I'm not going to keep my dogs to just one section of my home, in their crates for the most part, in order to fulfill AWA guidelines. Plus recent research has indicated no slip flooring along with other things, has a positive effect for puppies not developing or developing less severe hip dysplasia.

I do not support this change in regulation at all. My belief is that it will affect many small hobby breeders to their, and eventually to the public's detriment.
:thumbup:


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