Looking for a breeder in Arizona

[ebpups]

I have thought about what I would label Yorkiematch as. She is definitely not a puppy mill, she does not show dogs and I think back yard breeder does not fit her. I finally decided that she is a hobby breeder. I saw her previous pics of where she lived too, in fact I combed through her site quiet extensively when I thought I was getting a puppy. Her set up appeared very nice and all the dogs appeared to be very nice and well taken care of. She no longer has as much room but everything looks really good. Her dogs mean everything to her and she keeps to one breed only. I would say to the original question in this thread that you and I would give a thumbs up to Yorkiematch if anyone wanted to get a puppy from her.

[JulieYarnell]

They would not be called a reputable breeder from my point of view. I will not call her a bad breeder because I do not know her and her practices. There are many BYB whose house are clean and they love there little furballs. But that does not make them a reputable breeder. The only thing I did not like about her website is she mentions t-cups. And she breeds for smaller puppies not for the betterment of the breed.

Is she a reputable breeder? My opinion is no.

Is she a bad/good breeder? I don't know her so I have no say in that.

I would like for her to remove the t-cup add or atleast have a webpage informing people there is no such thing as t-cups. T-cups is a word use for advertising and is frown upon because many bad breeders use that term just to sell puppies.

Breeding is not just about caring for dogs and loving them. Is about doing research and knowing as much as you can about them. So no you don't need money to be a reputable breeder but you do need time to learn so much.

I hope I didn't come out sounding mean. But it's my opinion on this subject. I think it's great for people to want to be breeders but I also hate to see many beautiful dogs in the shelter just because they didn't come out t-cups.

[ebpups]

I don't want to step on any toes but I would like to say that maybe everyone is not reading the whole website. I went there again tonight to see what was actually said about t-cup yorkies. On her home page she does say she has tinies, t-cups, or toy. She also has been raising yorkies for over 27 years so is not exactly inexperienced in raising this breed. If you move through the website click on the "Meet the breeder" tab. She addresses the yorkie standard and talks a bit on it. She tells us the difference between the English (UK) and American (AKC) dogs. The American dogs are much smaller and finer boned and are often referred to as tines, t-cups or toys (Yorkie are a part of the Toy group). She then tells us that she does have the smaller of the breed, which are tinies, t-cups or small toys. If you purchased a stud dog from her then the dog she purchased must have had the expectation to be within the AKC standard. The dog she got for a replacement must have been within the standard too. I don't read anywhere she was wanting a dog that was purposely small so she too could raise dogs smaller than the standard. All I can tell you about her is that she never pressured me about anything and returned my deposit on the dog I didn't get from her litter and never once did she suggest I wait for another litter. Lots of "good breeder" websites tell you that your deposit is non-refundable. I know lots of "good breeders" who have their dogs kept in kennels as they have so many and do not socialize them properly as they have no time they are so busy showing to take the time to "know" each puppy. Their puppies are raised with loving care in her own living space. Now I would like to point out here that "not reputable" is probably not a good choice to describe them. Nowadays there are not too many people that when put to the test will stand behind what they sell like she did both in returning my deposit. She is not rich and I'm sure this cost her but she was "reputable" in my opinion. If she is willing to do this then she is not selling puppies for profit only. For these reasons I again repeat I would not call her a back yard breeder or a puppy mill.

I am not normally a controversial person and do not want to have to "take sides" so early after joining your forum. I look forward to learning and in turn hopefully teaching others about our lovely fur babies,. That is what I joined for. The thread that had yorkiematch in it caught my eye as I felt I had some first hand info to pass on.

[JulieYarnell]

My first pup was a puppymill girl. And I did not learned that until I found Yorkiematch. I don't regret buying my girl because I love her. But I learned so much and that's all I'm trying to do. Teach what I know in case it helps someone.

I'm sorry but her definition of t-cup is totally wrong.

When the average person thinks t-cup they think of a dog smaller than 4lbs. Her definition of t-cup: "the American version is quite often finer boned and smaller, with a shorter muzzle and different coat texrure. (referred to as a "t-cup")". I would like to know the source she found that at. Because, after learning my girl came from a puppymill I did alot of research on the breed and never once ran through that phrase. And I have seen some silly information out there. That just leads me to believe that she compare the English version to the US version and gave her opinion.

. There are two coats cotton and silky for the English and for the Americans breeding (and any other country). Those that show prefer silky since it's easier to show so they breed to get a silky coat.

So if an average person wants a t-cup and they buy from her thinking there going to get a dog that won't grow more than 4lbs and the dog ends up 6-7lbs there is a high chance that dog might end up in a shelter. Not all people return the dogs back to the breeders even if it say's in the contract.

I did not call her a backyard breeder or puppymill breeder. But the more I think about it she feels like a backyard breeder to me. Again, that is just my opinion. I do believe she loves her dogs and that she does have a passion for them. But her advertising from what I can see has false information.

Imaging someone taking one of her fluffs to the ring and stating they have a t-cup thinking there just saying a have an American version. Because there thinking there using correct words used in this type of hobby. They wouldn't even get pass the paperwork.

I will never buy a fluff from any type of breeder again. I don't care if there, BYB, puppymill or reputable.

And don't worry, this is a forum for everyone to speak there minds. No one will take offense on what you think. I use to be clueless on anything that had to deal with dogs. The only way to learn is to ask and be inform. Maybe I am wrong but I atleast have done some research. There is no taking sides here. Some people will agree with me and some wont. There will be no need for a forum if everyone agreed with each other.

[ebpups]

I so agree with this whole post, most whole-heartedly, but specifically these two points.

1) When I went in search of my Yorkies, after looking at several litters from "breeders" near where I live, I expected my new puppy to grow to a weight/size of no more than 7 lbs. That is what AKC specifies as the breed standard for a pure-bred. I was not interested in a "t-cup" or a "tiny" at all and knew that that was just too small for a healthy dog. But I did expect no more than 7 lbs. - even 8 lbs. - full grown. I paid the standard price for a pure-bred, AKC, "pet quality" puppy, to a "breeder" that had lots of good references, the Mother present, a clean, well run breeding area who seemed very knowledgable. All the puppies I have seen, by all the different breeders we went to, looked exactly like the puppy I chose, in color, black points, coat quality, etc.

2. Again, I agree whole-heartedly. This site and this Forum are extremely helpful to so many people interested in this breed. It has been a learning tool for me and many others, and it's because different points of view are discussed here. Please feel free to continue to express your opinions and your experiences because I know it's helpful to many other people as well.

[ebpups]

I, too, after owning three and being in the show world, both performance events (my personal favourite) and conformation have taken considerable time researching the breed.

Coats in the AKC, CKC, UK and FCI (Central Mediterranean) standards call for a silky coat with no undercoat, no woolliness or crimped. Anything other than silky is not permissible. Light tan or lemon on the ears is permissible.

The dog must have black eye rims, lips, foot pads and nose. Also they must have halos around the eyes in UK and FCI (not required in AKC) and FCI requires black nails.

All standards except the FCI require the dog to be under 7 lbs. (4-6 lbs. is ideal). The FCI standard should be 3-4 kg which is 6.6 - 9.9 lbs.

The body length should be: the length is equal to the height from the withers to the ground in all standards except the FCI which states the length from point of shoulder to point of buttocks is 38% more than the height of the withers. That means all standards except the FCI requires the body shape to be square.

An old formula that breeders often use to determine what the adult weight of the dog should be is: 2 x the weight at 12 weeks plus a pound. BUT as all of you know that is only an estimate and individual dogs vary and vary greatly sometimes. That is why breeders will sell puppies at an older age as the weight requirement is turning out wrong....either too small or too large.

There is so much more if you want to get really into standards but these are the starting point if you can expect to show your dog. There is no "paperwork" required to show your dog except on the premium list (entry form for show) you have to be able to state what your AKC number is (if you are showing in the US or Canada) and the name of the sire and dam. You can take your dog in the show if it is 12 lbs. and has a woolly coat and is long in the body as long as you can provide info that can be proven that your dog is registered with the AKC. If you do not do your homework to assess your dog you will not even be considered by the judge for a placement (altho he is required to examine your dog to see what faults it has). Personally I would do my homework first!

I also belong to another forum and did a search on "weight" there and most of the posts were saying there dogs were 6 lbs. up to 12 -15 lbs. SOME
of the posts did deal with dogs under 4 lbs. and quiet often they did have health issues, a liver shunt being very common and you had to make sure the dog ate enough to prevent low blood sugar. Keep in mind that a show breeder is breeding what she considers a perfect specimen of the breed. All other pups will likely be sold as "pet quality" which I suspect all of you were told when you purchased them. I am sure that if you got a dog from a show breeder that you had to sign a contract that you would neuter or spay them. This is to prevent anyone breeding dogs which the breeder considers not up to the standard and having her kennel name in their pedigree. Which is fair. Breeders screen their breeding stock for health issues before ever breeding them and study their pedigrees very closely. Therefore if you bought one of these "pet quality" dogs you got a good deal. They are going to be much healthier and have fewer problems than one you bought from a puppymill etc. Also, cheaper, quiet often cheaper than a puppymill.

I think we all have our own opinions by now from all the posts but I did want to put a little info out there about our precious babies and why they are what they are and what they could be. Some breeders will sell a "show" puppy but they have a lot of hoops you have to jump through to get one. If you do show a puppy I would recommend having your breeder or some other very knowledgeable person "mentor" you. When I was showing my Shih Tzu my breeder was always available and was at all the shows I took him to. I wouldn't have been able to do it without all her good advice. You have to be very dedicated to coat care. The reason my breeder let me have my show puppy is because she knew me from shows as performance events are at conformation shows and I always have keep my dogs in lots of coat. After I got my first from her I let his hair grow out and she was always complimenting me on the quality of care I gave it. So she had no qualms that I would not do the same for a show puppy. Coat care requires hours and hours of grooming and bathing to keep it in show shape.

I think I will step down from my lecture platform now and end this post. I don't mean to sound anything but informative and perhaps there is some info here that some of you are not aware of. Anyone who has a dog who grew more than 7 lbs. do not worry. A high percentage of pet quality are over the weight limit and a lot of owners feel more at ease handling them. They are also better suited to a busy household especially with youngsters. So perhaps you got the best deal of all considering you have a healthy pet and one that is not so fragile. My last eight dogs have come from a show breeder and I have not been sorry.

[JulieYarnell]

I think you gave some great info. My research was based on yorkies way before they started the whole standard thing.

So my question is, who decided yorkies should be 4-6lbs when back in the day (and I mean waaay back) they were many that were 9-10lbs and even bigger. People that love competition and love a challenge. The smaller the cuter, right?!

I also read about how showing dogs started. Many rich ladies had nothing else to do so the hobby started. We all know how competitive women are. The trend took off and shortly but surely the breed started getting smaller. Dog showing is competition so I know there should be rules and regulations. But that's why I don't like people advertising what is not real.

Dog showing to me is like trying to model your way to the runway. If that makes any sense http://www.maltesetalk.com/forums/im.../tongue.gifThe up side is that there are many good hearted people that really care for the breed and just wants to produce great breeds so they won't get extinct.

I am happy there are people like yourself that really cares about these fluffs and any fluff for the matter. And I do wish you all the luck in the ring.

I also hope some learn a bit from my point of view. And if reference are needed you can always PM me and I look for the sources. Sometimes you have to go past the rules and regulation new centuries have install on us.

[ebpups]

If you really want to hear something weird go to this website and read up on the FCI standard. They claim that way back the ancestors of these little angels lived in the ports and maritime cities and hunted mice and rats!! Can you imagine our little darlings doing that?? I sure can't as their temperament of today is a very loving, gentle and affectionate pet. I haven't been curious enough till now to really do any research into this. Perhaps you, (sorry I haven't been on the forum long enough to figure out everyone's name) have come across this in your research into this breed?

There is so much to learn about any breed and show dogs are different than pets (thank God). Most show dogs live a very different life than do our babies. My show dog, had to live with nothing to help him teethe as they aren't supposed to chew on anything cause they may break the hair around their face. I did that but to my detriment. He found his own chew toys by gnawing on chair rungs, my buffet corner, toy boxes and anything else wooden he could find till it just about drove me crazy! I let him run around and play with my others and do everything they did too without putting too many restrictions on him as I thought it was too restrictive a life for him if I didn't. Show breeders go to great lengths to make hair really nice by wrapping up the ends of the coat, moustache and topknot. Some also "put them oil" and then they will attract so much dirt they have to restrict where they are allowed. Some keep them in raised floor kennels so that the hair will not break. They are not allowed on many surfaces including carpet, concrete and grass. I know all this about the breed because I did do showing there but it looks to me that just about all the same restrictions would be put on show dogs. All I know is that I got all my dogs from breeders because I wanted them healthy and a fairly good looking dog as I would be at shows where all the "beautiful" dogs would be and I didn't want to stand out like a sore thumb,lol. I think they in turn gave me fairly good dogs as their name is in the show catalogue with my entry. I love all my dogs equally whether they have lots of faults or very few. I'm just glad that we humans don't have to be in "breeding programs" as so many of us wouldn't make the cut I'm sure!

[JulieYarnell]

My name is Jessica http://www.maltesetalk.com/forums/im...lies/smile.gif

Yes, I did read about what there ancestry might be. I won't disregard the information because dogs have been evolving through the years. Dogs are animals and before they were domesticated they had to survive somehow so I'm sure they had to be predators. I'm sure many of the stuff I read are just assumptions but there must be some truth as well.

I saw the documentary of show breeding dogs, horrible http://www.maltesetalk.com/forums/im...lies/frown.gif

I just hope there's more human breeders now.

Mine have gone through three of these mice looking things. And I have to keep them away from my chickens.

[ebpups]

Jessica, is that the documentary where they showed the Cavalier King Charles dogs that had so much pressure on the brain? With all their health problems I would never get one of them! And they are such cute little guys that I have often considered until I found out about the health problems!

Hey! that toy looks suspiciously like Anabelle's toy. I think her toy may be a tad smaller. Maybe it comes in different sizes. It has a squeaker in it and it comes with another one for when the squeak goes out of it. Just pull it apart at the velcroed place and replace and Voila! a new toy. After my pap saw it though he had to have it. I now have three!

[ebpups]

I got it at a place called Pet Lover's Warehouse which is locally owned and not a chain. I have three toy boxes piled high with toys for the guys as the whole lot of them play with toys. I didn't pay a lot for the mice and they seem to stand up pretty good actually. My pap is crazy about balls and I get him the Kong little yellow balls (they come in three sizes but the largest are the size of tennis balls and are too big) that squeak and he has to "kill" it for the first while (take out the squeak) and then if no one will throw if for him he drops it in your pathway so you will at least kick it for him. We have many balls under our kitchen appliances that periodically we have to fish out. He loves to take them out on the deck and drop them off in the hopes someone will get them for him. If you go down the basement expect a ball to arrive at your feet soon after and he is barking to remind you to bring it up for him. I recently found that Anabelle loves little balls too. She doesn't have enough power in her mouth to make it squeak but loves to play fetch.....just figured it out herself that it has to come back to me if she wants it thrown again! It seems Anabelle and Brady like a lot of the same toys and if there is a problem about ownership of the toy Brady makes it clear to her that he is the boss (she is the only one that listens to this but she is such a spitfire she'll bark her head off at him for taking it away. Soon she will be grabbing the toy back). Around here the stuffingless toys are popular too. I got tired of buying stuffed toys only to have them destroyed right away! If any of you have dogs that love squeaky toys there is this snake in two sizes plus another flatter toy that have a bunch of squeakers in them and they seem invincible to the dogs. It doesn't matter if they puncture the squeaker it still squeaks. The little snake one is $12.99 here in Canada but worth every penny as it has not lost it's squeak in many months. It gets hard use too as they all love to play tug of war with each other too. I've seen these Invincible snakes in almost all the pet stores so it should be easy to find.

[LBerrerra]

I saw the shows on how much humans have actually "changed" the various breeds and the negative results some of those changes have brought. It's truly amazing just how much "interference" by man has occurred.

[MCallister]

I can certainly imagine this with mine. He digs and hunts everything, whether it's in the grass or on the couch. It always looks like he's burrowing in to hunt a small critter. Also, with treats, he has to "show it whose boss" by tossing it around, pouncing on it, batting it with his paws until he feels it's "dead", then he eats it. I've never seen any other puppy play in this way and always wondered it this is a Yorkie behavior, especially since so many other YT members talk about this same thing.

I, also would like to know why this "standard" was put in place. It was extremely confusing when researching puppies for us to buy. How can you tell when they are all so very small, how large they'll grow? My Teddy came from a Mom that weighed only 4.5 lbs. (if the Breeder was telling me the truth) and swore Teddy wouldn't get bigger than 6-7 lbs (because of the Sire). That definitely was NOT the case in the end. Because this information is "out there", most people completely discount Teddy as being Yorkie based on his size alone. I've never had plans to "show" him and just wanted a small pet but I hadn't anticipated that he'd end up as big as he is. And, you are correct - his size is actually perfect for our active family and this isn't an issue for me anymore, but it has been perplexing. I can't imagine having a smaller yorkie because I'm sure it would be injured by all the rough and tumble playtime around here, so in the end I'm grateful that he's such a sturdy little guy. But the size specifications for the Breed are very confusing to those of us new to owning a yorkie.

Once again, this discussion has been so very informative! I so appreciate both sides and points of view and I'm sure I'm not the only one! Thank you so much,!!

[ebpups]

With all due respect, I searched the yorkiematch website and didn't see anything to indicate that they are breeding to try to better the breed. She states her dogs come from champion bloodlines yet I couldn't even find ONE champion of HERS. And furthermore, there is absolutely NO reputable breeder who advertises "t-cups or tinies" and they certainly don't intentionally breed "the smaller of the yorkies". I am certainly not doubting she loves her dogs and I commend her for standing behind her dogs (as well she should!!!!) BUT she is definitely not what I would call a reputable breeder.

#29 20 mile
...She is absolutely not a puppy mill. She is the exact opposite actually. She loves and individually cares for each dog. You clearly do not know what a puppy mill is. Stop lying to other users. And don't even think of buying a puppy from her. She will know who is a good person and who is not when it comes down to passing on her beloved puppies to a new home.

If anyone is looking for a fun AND sweet petite dog, and you have the kindness and patience that this breed of dog needs, please visit yorkiematch. You will not be disappointed!

God bless.

[Dwinder]

My puppy is from Yorkiematch. I had talked to her several times on the phone and visited her home 3 times. She is EXTREMELY concerned about the health and welfare of the puppies. She will not sell a puppy to just anyone and states right in her contract that if for any reason you cannot keep the dog she wants the first opportunity to have it back so she can find an acceptable home for it. I also called literally 10 references of people who had her puppies and everyone I talked to was overwhelmingly happy with their dogs. When I went to bring my baby home it took over an hour to pick him up because she had so many instructions to go over and so much information to share... and that is AFTER having already given me a lot of information when I put the deposit down on him. My vet is very impressed with my puppy, says he is wonderful and healthy and exactly the temperament that yorkies are bred for - she also said that over the last 10 years or so they have seen many yorkies come into their practice who are not the temperament that yorkies are typically known for and they have seen quite a few that are high strung and nippy. Also, I had a lot of questions for my vet about how they do things (meaning certain vaccinations and timing, etc)., and my vet was also impressed with the amount of knowledge Yorkiematch has of the breed as well as her concern for the welfare of the puppies. No, she does not show her dogs, but there is NO DOUBT the health of the puppies and their care is her #1 priority. I joined when I already had a deposit on my puppy, so since that time I have a much better understanding of the type of breeder that is recommended to buy a puppy from. However, to lump someone like Yorkiematch in as a puppy mill is just absurdly wrong.