no website? wow...so you mean all those breeders out there with websites are bad breeders? and are you saying all the breeders here on YT that advertise their litters here are bad breeders too? because that is the general message that is being sent and it's completely judgmental and unfair!

I see nothing wrong with a breeder having a website, it can be very informative and tell about their breeding program, I do see something VERY wrong with a breeder SELLING from the website, PayPal and all. You can buy NOW! This is a huge red flag! For you to suggest that people are "catty" because they try and help educate people as to what to look for in a breeder is absolutely ridiculous. People have pointed out some genuine concerns, and these members are some of the most educated people here on Yorkietalk, and they are far from "catty." I know it's hard to hear anything negative about a breeder who gave you a good puppy, but these are specific points that many people feel are "red flags." Concerning being judgemental, we are suppose to judge people in their work, how would we know a good breeder from a bad breeder, if we didn't judge them?

This is exactly what I meant to say. Selling dogs on a website with PayPal is a Red Flag. And yes it is our right and duty to question.

I'm not arguing the points being made....the "red flags" or what not. I'm just testifying to the fact that DNG is a great breeder...I will stand that ground firmly. And I feel that trying to destroy someone's reputation and not giving them a snowballs chance in hell to redeem themselves properly is unfair and wrong. DNG has been very well known here on YT and unfortunately, all it takes is one person giving a negative opinion and BAM...you have effectively caused a world of hurt for this one person. Unfortunately, nothing I can say right now will fall on understanding ears for those of you who have decided to chastise DNG. You will continue to find anything and everything wrong with her. So I should hang up my hat and just feel good about the fact that I have given a very deserving person a great review...one that I believe with my whole heart and know to be true. You can check my previous posts...I have raved about her from day one. Her love and care of her dogs definitely goes above and beyond. And red flags or not...you should try to find out if those "red flags" are valid or just a quick jump to conclusions. In this case...those "red flags" you speak of are nothing more than a stereotype.

How well known can someone be here on YT with only 36 posts, most of which are in this thread? :confused:

For the record, I am glad that you are happy with your dog and so pleased with your experience. I'd much rather read that than to read someone's bad experience with a breeder any day. :thumbup:

As far as people posting in an attempt to 'eliminate the competition,' I truly do not understand what would make you feel that is the case. Competition how? In the ring? Selling pups? Nancy doesn't breed. I'm not actively breeding right now and don't plan on it again any time soon. Mardelin only has like, 1 litter a year and then is stingy and keeps them all for herself. I am curious as to how you feel anyone is threatened by some kind of competition here.

I understand that you say the types of posts and opinions expressed here are the type that keep you from being a more active member on YT, and you certainly have a right to feel that way. However, these same types of discussions are why many members like YT and think of it as an informative site and hold value in the issues that many people with more experience with the breed bring to light for consideration and discussion. For every person who feels the way you do, there is another person who feels just the opposite. :)

it has already been mentioned in this thread that this person is only 1/2 (they are roommates) of DNG. The other person was banned from YT a while back (and it's still not clear why). I believe She had several thousand posts, has MANY long time friends from YT. I am referring to DNG as being well known here.

People who are banned from YT know very well why they are banned. The rules here are very clear and the admin and mods are very patient.

Every time I see someone suggest that people don't know why they are banned, I chuckle. You almost have to go out of your way to get banned from YT. :)

I dont know Deb, but she did sell dogs for Natalie and Natalie for her. Debs dogs have pedigrees that are Natalies lines. Those that have gotten pups and have no problems Im happy for, but my Dakota has more than his share of health issues and he came from Natalie 6 years ago. Just please be careful and check your pedigrees.

More than checking pedigrees; make sure parents and pups have been tested for any genetic life threatening issues.

Hips and knees x-rayed are only valid at 2 years of age.
Bile Acids not to be performed until 16 weeks and 6 months of age.

There is also more to just taking a pup in for a vet check and the vet only taking temps, listening to heart, checking eyes and ears for possible infection....

I just read this post....I resemble the bolded out statement. I am not stingy, just a bit selective on where my pups go. As my vet tells people when he gives them my # "Good Luck; you'll have a better chance finding a cure for AIDS than getting a pup from her"

But as far as me being competition, I've never advertised my puppies on YT and never gone posting behind people who are looking for a pup. I've never PM'd anyone with information about my pups. Heck I never even share when my girls are expecting a litter or posted in the nursery; which is very telling to me what the person's motives are.

So many tricks to selling pups on YT. Oh! my girl is preggie; look at her belly shots and help me guess how many pups; oh my girl is in labor, oh look at pics of my pups. And then there is the welcome to YT....and the poster has their website in huge font size....

Youre so right, some of us learned the hard way.

I don't see anything inherently sinister about posting pics in the nursery section or posting about a girl that's pregnant. I don't think of them as 'tricks' to selling, though some may use them in that way.

There are many people that make it a point to warn prospective buyers of what to look for in a breeder...also stickies for further info. I don't think it's fair to paint with such a broad brush and denigrate anyone selling a pup here on YT. Administration has seen fit to have not only a breeders forum, but a nursery forum and a for sale forum. Rules are posted for each forum and a person should be able to feel free to post in these forums, so long as they follow the rules, without being criticized. To criticize people for the very act of posting there can have a chilling effect and I don't think that is fair or productive. Also, if people are reluctant to post for fear of being labeled, there are probably things not being discussed that should be discussed that would be beneficial to many, especially in the breeders forum.

While I (and I suppose most here) don't want to see YT turn into an online flea market for dogs, neither should it be the exclusive domain of a few. This is a community for all Yorkie lovers and not all march to the same beat. If the goal is to raise the bar for breeders, setting it to the point of where accomplished exhibitors are and lumping everyone else together as something less won't get that done.

A little more tolerance here would be nice. We might all learn something from it and in the end the dogs will benefit.

I'll stick my nose in the fan here and say that my Darla is expecting her first litter, with a due date of Monday. I'm very excited about this litter and also a little worried. I worry about each one but Darla has been bred twice before (using an exhibitor's stud) and no babies. I used my Nemo this time to confirm her fertility. I didn't really want to use him as he is so small and I don't breed for tinies, but I had no luck prior and felt I needed to be in control of the breeding this time.

I would hope that if I have any questions I can ask them without being criticized for mentioning that she's having babies. And you can bet that I will post pictures of them in the nursery...not to sell pups but for the reasons the nursery is there....to show off our little wonders!

Everyone have a great weekend! As for me, I'm on puppy watch :).

The very best of luck with your litter.

In all honesty I think that having a selling forum on here in the basest sense makes for difficulties. I am concerned about how neophytes to the breed might assume that somehow these breeders who post pups for sale, are somehow good breeders because they are members here.

I am also concerned that there is no requirement to post the health tests you do on your breeding dams n sires, as part of the listing requirements to post a for sale ad. It is almost as if YT condones breeding untested breeding stock, or by ignoring this basic, says somehow it is not important in the scheme of things.

But that is not part of this thread. ONce again a safe and healthy whelp for your dam and pups.

I don't think there is anything inherently sinister in posting pictures in the nursery section either, people will have many different motives for doing this. I thought that I was the only one who thought that showing a pregnant belly was degrading, this just still seem so personal, and I'm glad to know others feel the same way. However, I believe there is no one thing makes or breaks a breeder and their reputation; it’s a pattern of things.

I don't think there is any 'perfect' solution, but there are checks and balances. As I said, there are stickies and people do make comments and criticisms about pups for sale.

As to my earlier post, I agree with Mary about some of the things going on here. Some folks are too eager to sell a pup and seem to troll threads for buyers. Hopefully the checks and balances help to make unsuspecting buyers aware. I just don't think that the problem is so pervasive that EVERYONE that posts in the nursery section or announces a litter in the breeder forum is doing so for ulterior motives. Some folks just like to share and I see nothing wrong with that. The gist of my post is yes, there's a problem, but I hesitate to associate everyone that posts about their babies with that problem.

Gail, thanks for the well-wishes. I truly hope it's an uneventful whelp.

My roomate knows exactally why a ban occured. She chooses not to drag any dirty laundry out in the air. I can tell you it wasn't due to any breeding issues. I commend her for wanting to keep YT a happy place and not drag out any unnecessary drama.

As for me please understand Yes I have low post counts because I just choose not to post all the time.

NO she didn't sell dogs for anyone other than herself. I don't feel her sending people who are looking for a yorkie girl perhaps when all she had were boys to a friend is selling for them. I am sure alot of breeders refer people looking for a yorkie puppy to a friend who may have puppies. That's not selling for another it is just helping someone find their new furbaby. Selling for someone means that money would be exchanged and there wasn't ever anything like that, so please stop assuming incorrectly. Ty!

It's funny Gloria because going back and reading threads your roomate posted I discovered she uses that same Ty. I'm not trying to be rude just wondering.:confused:

Well how would you say it abbreviated?

Thank You...Sorry Gloria, my mistake. :)

Appology accepted, Ty for allowing me the opportunity to clear it up for you.

Even with tests, things happen. I don't feel its the duty of YT to attempt to regulate health tests. I know people that don't do it, with luck they've been lucky. Some test everything, without luck and things have been hard. Personally, if I were buying a pup I'd have more confidence in a breeder that said they have had problems. Bad things happen. If they won't invest in healthy breed worthy stock, what do people think they do when a problem arises? If you are buying a puppy from someone that targets you, think they are breeding well or will stand behind a contract? A contract doesn't mean much more than the paper its on if they don't live up to them. 1500 is it worth going to court? Its well known what usually happens. We see it here daily. Homes should be lined up before having liters.
It bothers me to see puppies treated like car parts. Then when there's a problem, accountability at best.
I see a lot of advice given by people that have never bred, some are only a year into the breed. Some are on their first one. One time we had a child giving advice on how to whelp. People can be helpful to newbies when they have more exper than they do. But I see advice that makes me shake my head.
I question my own motive and impact of being here each time a beating heart is treated like a car part. How can you give another person your vision for these wee ones? Its it possible or are we by way of enabling? Are we supporting it all the same by helping uneducated breeders breed successfully? We can't allow suffering, that's never a choice.
I don't know anything about
Natalie. Is she the lady here selling tinies?

Yes Elle, Natalie is the Breeder that is still selling Tea Cups on YT...:(

This bothers me as well~someone posts they are looking for a puppy and every "behind the scenes breeder" starts to send out PMs offering their puppies. It's no different than picking up a puppy at the Walmart parking lot. If they were reputable they would be in the open doing the right thing and making a good solid name for themselves.

I see it happening more and more.

Jodi,

If they were reputable they wouldn't have to be doing it behind the scenes or out in the open. You don't breed prior to having homes for these pups. Homes that the breeder has interviewed and investigated.

I agree with this 100%! So many breeders claim to only breed when they have homes for future puppies, but then I wonder, why do they have ads here? :confused:

No need to be confused Nancy. With the advent of the internet, it's made it very easy for some that are breeding to learn the lingo (enough so that they can fool the unsuspecting, unknowledgable puppy buyer), talk the talk, but they really don't walk the walk.

Just wanted to give you an F.Y.I.
Not too stand up for Natalie here but it sure looks like alot of reputable breeders do buy her puppies. If you look here and scroll down to Sassy she is from Natalie's lines. Firebrand Yorkies Females

Mmm....it depends on what you constitute as a reputable breeder. I checked out the website and what I see is advertisement of bloodlines being captilized on. Championed sired, Champion lines is an advertising ploy......Natalie obtained her lines via the backdoor as did Firebrand Yorkies.

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