Dog Show World
 

I would like to know opinions on what you personally think your reputation means to you being successful in the dog show world. What a veteran "reputable" show breeder looks for when considering the placement of a show prospect? I believe these questions to be very valuable for a newcomer in the show world.

It's safe to say that reputations are very important. However, if that reputation is tarnished by speculation and rumor brought on by people that have nothing better to do with themselves but to continue to spread lies, then I believe that the truth will come out in the end. Try walking in the shoes of someone that has had their life practically torn apart because a couple of people decided they don't think someone should be showing or have access to show dogs.

Relationships are very important and trust must be established for a veteran show breeder to place any show prospect. Hopefully, that veteran show breeder will be able to look past reputations that have been tarnished by people and give a well deserving chance to a hopeful show exhibitor. You never know...that hopeful show exhibitor may just do that veteran show breeder proud.

I do understand what you are stating, I have been a victim of such speculation and had to overcome being tarnished by lies. The show world is very political and there are many show breeders that do not get along, but I have noticed they will come together in the aid of a veteran show breeder done wrong! I think veteran show breeders are being much more selective in the placement of their show prospectives and many are choosing to alter them and place them as pets. I believe in order for someone to prove themselves it takes alot of time and patiences. Going to shows helping them in the grooming area and ring side. Shows the veteran show breeder that you are wanting to learn and you will do right by them and especially their dogs they are entrusting to you!

Interesting site
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformation_dog_show

I found the above link to be interesting reading and reference to the Dog Show World.

And our "friend" is doing the same.

It's a shame that anyone should have to go through this...it really is.:(

The info is from the link I posted. It talks about the classes in a AKC Conformation Show.

Dog shows in the US (AKC)

Golden Retrievers being groomed prior to an American conformation showThere are seven classes per breed in AKC dog shows: Puppy (sometimes divided between 6-9 Month and 9-12 Month), Novice, 12-18 Months, Bred By Exhibitor (where the person handling the dog is an owner and breeder of record), American-Bred, Novice (not used in all breeds), and Open. In some cases one or more of these classes may be divided by color, height, weight, or coat type.

First through fourth place are awarded in each class. The winners of all classes in each sex compete for Winners (best) Dog and Winners Bitch. These wins are awarded points toward a Championship, based on the number of dogs in each sex competing in the classes. The remaining class winners are joined by the runner-up from the class from which the Winner was selected and there are competitions for second place in each sex, called Reserve Winners Dog and Reserve Winners Bitch. If for any reason the Winner is determined to be ineligible for the points on that day, they would instead be awarded to the Reserve Winner (a bit like the First Runner-Up in the Miss America pageant).

Once the Winners and Reserves are chosen, the Best of Breed competition begins. This group consists of any dog or bitch that has finished its Championship, plus the Winners Dog and Winners Bitch. The dog or bitch that the judge feels best represents the breed standard on that day is awarded Best of Breed; the best animal of the opposite gender is awarded Best of Opposite Sex; and the better of the Winners Dog or Winners Bitch is awarded Best of Winners. (The Winners Dog or Bitch can be awarded Best of Breed or Best of Opposite Sex, as well.) In a Specialty show, the Best of Breed is also called Best in Specialty.


Part of the AKC hound group at a show in Houston, TexasIn multi-breed and all-breed shows, the winners of all breeds within the kennel club's breed groupings then compete for Group placements. So, for example, all the Terrier Group Best of Breed winners compete for Group First, Group Second, Group Third, and Group Fourth. Finally, the seven Group First winners compete for Best in Show.

In the AKC, a dog needs 15 points to become a Champion, with each win gaining anywhere from zero to five points depending on the number of dogs competing and the area where the show is held.[1] At least two wins must be a set of three or more points ("majors"), under two different judges; at least one additional win under a third judge is also required. Additional points may be awarded to the Best of Winners, or a class dog that goes Best of Breed or Best of Opposite Sex, again depending on the number of dogs competing.[2]

I believe that in the Dog Show World your actions speak louder than your words. One has to try to do things for the love of their dogs and I believe the rest will fall into place. It is getting more difficult for good honest people to be able to purchase a show prospect because of the actions of others. I believe most show breeders would love to be able to place all their show prospects into show homes, but our environment has made that a very difficult thing to do. Which is sad. There are people out there that would only do right by the dog, but because the show breeder at one time had a bad experience many novice will never receive the chance. That is a shame.

You are absolutely correct! It is a shame. But if you are judging stictly by the way "novices" are viewed on forums, they don't exactly have a fighting chance, do they? :(

I am still looking for that magic portal that instantly takes you from 'beginner' to 'seasoned' because apparently, it is often forgotten that there is an 'in between.' :p

I also want to add that if the 'Show World' and 'Show Breeders' truly fit the mold of how they are portrayed on Yorkie forums, you'd have to be a bloomin' idiot to actually want to partake in it.:rolleyes: I mean let's be honest, they are not exactly cast in a positive light here, are they?:(

I realize that when you enter the world of showing (of ANY breed) as handler, breeder, groomer, judge, ANY aspect, you are stepping into what can be a very political world. Fortunately, I have been able to meet and work with some of these people both recently and in the past when I was involved witha different breed myself. (What, shocked?;)) My own personal experiences have shown me that those who fit the mold decribed on the forums are not as prevalent as some would lead you to believe and that there is far less childish drama in the ring than there is on the forums. (Of course, I'm sure that I am about to be bombarded with the same what-do-you-know-you-are-so-misinformed mentalities as usual...so be it...let the oh-so-carefully-worded insults begin...lol)

In all honesty, if I'd come face to face with people who were as...catty? judgemental? hateful? conceited? as the way the picture is often painted here, I would probably still to this day be running like mad from anything that even resembled a dog!

We just witnessed (what should've been) a very nice thread closed because of nasty comments. Jealousy is an ugly thing. But, if you read these boards and really pay attention, it's not all that hard to find people that clearly care more for the yorkie breed than their own boring ego. Watch for the people that offer support when others are in trouble. (because they care more about the life of the dog rather than what ribbons it might attain.)
Personally, I can't imagine approaching a stranger at a show to offer "help". I wouldn't want anyone I didn't know anywhere near my dog before a show. I think a sincere love of the breed shows through with the serious breeder, not the elitist attitude of some. And I have seen alot of "do as I say, not as I do" in the show world.

Ahh you beat me to it. I just found this thread. You are right there and trust me people, what you might think of as rumours are not. The rumours that might be going on are very quickly found to be untrue and they die. The truths, however, are a different story.
Actions speak way louder than words and many have found out the hard way that some can talk a good story but do something else entirely. A contract with a handshake is so far from being any good anymore. A contract in writing can still land you in court anyway as you may have to end up there to enforce that contract. What a pain in the toosh!!!
And you are right. If I were a newbie trying to get started in the show world now, I don't know if I could Show breeders were burned years ago, in my opinion but based on what I see now, it is far worse than I have known about in the 10 years I have been in this.

I never stated to approach a stranger at a dog show. I for one do not mind talking with someone at a show, but after I am done showing my dog (s). If one is truly interested in showing they should contact their locate kennel club and find a mentor with the breed they are wanting to show. A mentor is the first most important thing a novice can find! A mentor will have you go along to the shows and help them in the grooming area and ring side. I have been to several shows to help and learn.

I will state this also. One should not just think that a Veteran "Reputable" Show Breeder is just going to hand a dog over to you to do with what you want and not be in contact again. They are first going to co-own the dog and be a part of your showing their dog. If and when the time comes to use the dog for breeding your mentor/breeder will also be right there to help you the whole time!

There are to many scammers in the dog world today! People that will breed anything, sell anything and purchase dogs with champion pedigree just to sell dogs! I honestly would not blame any reputable show breeder for altering everything they do not personally keep!

Joining a local breed club after bringing home my 1st companion yorkie really gave me insight and taught me so much about the yorkie, showing and lastly breeding. It is where I found my breeder/mentor/friend/adopted mother. However, she didn't entrust me with my first show dog for a year and a half.

It is was told to me that when you buy your first show dog from a breeder, that you not only buy the dog you gain a mentor. I found this to be very true. My mentor has been there every step of the way for me, teaching me, yelling at me when I didn't get it right. She was there at my 1st show dogs puppy match and every show she was entered in, the day she Championed and until the she was retired from the ring.

So, I can't stress enough how important a good reputable/responsible/honest mentor is.....and never, never betray their trust.

I agree completely. EVen with legal paper contracts too many veteran long time reputable show breeders are getting badly burned. Very badly.
I also agree a lot of the griping is that reputable show breeders will also require coownership with a newbie and it has come to that even with show breeders that have been around for a while.

So, true Lorraine that's why it's getting more and more difficult for the newbie to get into the show world. I'm not sure coownership is the answer to it either. A contract is only as good as the 2 people signing it. And I'll say it again you can't teach integrity and ethics.

Co-ownership is mostly to keep that friendship, nowadays there can almost be no other reason. Contracts and co-ownership is not the whole answer very true and unfortunately, it will keep some show breeders from being willing to take the risk. It is more practical to deal with someone in your area as then the newbie would also have a mentor which should be part of it.
The biggest problem too is that the ethical person, thinks ethically. The unethical doesn't. The unethical, sometimes, can talk a good story but that is as far as it will go.
The ethical cannot possibly think of all the curves the unethical will not hesitate to try to the detriment of the person that may have trusted them.
These are all the delima's facing the reputable show breeder who gets that email or phone call from people asking for a Yorkie to breed, oh excuse me that was show, right???

You are too funny....yes, it is show, but I read between the lines.

Yes, it is more practical to deal with someone in your area, but not always the case, as you see so many dogs from one kennel in the east being bought and shown in the west...I guess this is where the bond of trust has to be built....trusting someone enough to do the right thing...
It's so sad that so many of the great reputable exhibitor/breeders have been burnt...as I feel that this may lead to the gene pool dwindling and narrowing down.

No the gene pool will not be affected. Don't forget that gene pool has been alive and healthy and flourishing, all the years before the yOrkie came so high in demand. Over the last 30+ years with the dedication of Yorkie show breeders/fanciers, the yOrkie has become the dog we have today, lovely silk coat, movement and structure.
All that was done without bringing a lot of newbies into it that just want to breed and sell puppies and use them to create 'designer breeds'. At that time this sort of thing wasn't going on so it was easier to trust people but there weren't nearly as many people asking at that time as there are now. I think the real situation is the number of people is about the same as many years ago as far as the person who is willing to be dedicated to the breed and learn and show as well as do what they can for the benefit of the breed.
I see as kind of like what I have seen in the last 10 and a bit years I have been in this. In my observation, the number of good homes looking for nice Yorkie puppies for pet really hasn't changed that much in the last 10 or so years. Yes I get multitudes of enquiries the last couple of years, but so few have the situation I would be willing to place a puppy for pet. And that's not even addressing the enquiries from people looking for something to breed which of course has also increased a heck of a lot.

This is a wonderful thread. I agree with the co-ownership contract.
(Let's see if I can word this right...) To me showing is only a step in breeding, showing is time consuming, hard work and dedication to a breed.
I adore yorkies, love them like crazy. I adore my two rascals, they are my other kids (I consider them my four legged kids and then I have two legged kids). I am proud of their breed, their intelligence, their fiery personalties. Over the years I have been learning more and more and I know they are "pet" in every sense of the word. Now grooming I see the saddest shapes of yorkies, and when I hear, "We wnat to breed Tucker and Fifi cause they are so CUTE" I wannt throw up, these yorkies are so far from the breed stadard but it falls on death ears...and then more ugly, misformed, yorkies come into the world, with bad knees, allergies, problems galore...which the owners are puzzled cause the breeder said that her dogs were healthy...or the people that are shocked when the $2000 yorkie puppy they got for their purse turns out to be a 12 lbs monster...this all irks me to no end.
I adore the lady I got my yorkies from but there is no way I will get another one from her. I now want a yorkie that does credit for the breed. In my province ther are not very many yorkies that are up to standard. I wish to bring that, show people what a yorkie is supposed to be like. I am learning what I want in a yorkie.

Now I have the fun problme of being isloated from great breedersan mentors, the web is a beautiful thing, as is the phone. I had the privedge to speak with some great breeders in Canada. And she gave me the advice that you can learn long distance, you can learn over the web, but it will take more time. You have to ask every question, understand what people are tlaking about, develop relationships with people and learn from them.
So this is what I am doing. And I know it will take YEARS before I feel I am ready to do a show puppy justice.
I have made some great contacts, had some great talks with wonderful people. I have a good friend who has shown for years, done very well, works as a professional handler, gone to shows with me, given me tips, and she is now studying to become a judge. I have learned so much from her.
Her advice? "If you want it bad enough, you can wait and use that time to learn and it will happen, but not now." Bingo!
I have friends who cannot understand why I just don't buy a yorkie to show ( for fun but they can only see the pristege of owning a 'show' dog who cares if they actually win in their mind) and then breed it...argh!! It is hard to explain it does not work that way, I try to educate one by one, some people I have had success.

Some breeders have been great, I have always been upfront that I am not looking for a puppy right now, I am not ready, but ask my questions. Some have blown me off, many were very nice and a few said to ask away, and when I was ready we will talk.

Sorry for the ramble...:)

I do my best to talk to anyone that has questions (of course when Im done showing lol) I remember what it was like walking around clueless in my first dog shows and looking for someone to talk to and ask questions. I also remember the feeling when I couldnt get any one to talk to at all, it hurt and I dont want any other newcomer to have that feeling that I had back then.

Oh I talk to everyone at shows. I love to talk yorkie and show off my Connor. Maybe I can teach someone, maybe I can learn something from them. If a show isn't fun, why bother? It's suppose to be a sport and learning experience.

Exactly! You should enjoy yourself! Your dog should also have fun and enjoy his/her self. If not, why bother.

I hope that I learn many new things everytime I show or attend a conformation show! You can NEVER learn or know enough and you should always be willing to learn more!

I talk to everyone, after I've shown. If people approach me whenn I'm grooming and getting ready, I invite them to come back after the yorkies have shown and devote my full attention to their questions.

I wish the yorkie breeder in my province was like that! I have tried so mnay times to start ANY conversation with him after he has shown (I watch and make sure he is done) but he is what I call 'politely rude', packs up says hardly two words, smiles the whole time and acts like he does not speak English (which he does) and is gone.

We went to our first show, lost at 9am and talked till 4pm. Had a blast, made friends, contacts, learned sooooo much!

With the show seasons tating soon, it makes me ache for my own to show...but things are too crazy and money is tight, we are opening our own grooming shop in about a month and I refuse to tap into emerg funds, so I will wait...

I am thinking maybe after Christmas I may want a show pup...we will see if the timing and life are right.

I've experienced that politely rude thing before. It set me back on my ear for a bit but I got over it. Truth is they're just people too. They may know more than I do about the dogshow world right now but I have areas of talent and knowledge too. I don't think I'm sure a bad egg to know and it's their loss. It's surprising how many people out there just don't want to be bothered. I met Laurie at a show in New Kent and was impressed right away. She's upfront, honest and yet encouraging, willing to share, open and helpful. I'm looking forward to meeting up with her and her friends (Maria for one) again. We're all on this journey together, some people are just more fun to travel with. :D :D