Question about 2 shows a day
 

On another thread, Kathy785 from Kansas mentioned going to 8 shows in 2 weekends. This is something new to me. I know I have been out of the ring for some time, but I still have never heard of this and know we don't have this around here. I'm just curious as to how this works..There is usually such a large entry that it's an all day process to get through the groups and BIS. I've never heard of going reserve BIS puppy, so please enlighten me. What am I missing??? I believe here they do have a match for puppies after the show that's good for training, etc. but that was all I have heard about. I would really appreciate someone filling me in.

She may mean (for AKC shows) Thursday - Sunday: "Cluster." I was at one show one weekend in AL and they had BIS Puppy - my Gigi got for the breed. I did not stay around though.

Or she may mean UKC shows. Not sure.
T.

Very easy to do 8 shows on 4 day clusters......With the high cost of of renting a site, Kennel Clubs have joined forces and put on 3 or 4 day shows. This is a plus for exhibitors too.....since it narrows down the traveling for 2 day shows.

Not sure what she meant about Reserve BIS Show Puppy. I've done BIS at a puppy match.....and best puppy....going on to the group ring, however, it's not a pointed win, neither is Best Junior, Best Senior or Grand Sweeps winner at a Specialty show.......

UkC has 2 show listed for each day at the Kent show for this weekend. I got Connor a TL so that I could show him on Sun. (I have to work on Sat.) but I don't know if both shows are confirmation as the judges are listed for different hunting exhibitions. I'm confused as well! I guess I need to call the event manager.

I know nothing about UKC.....other than what has been explained to me...that originally it was started for hunting, obedience and trial events....

I am not sure that Kathy will see this post (sorry Kathy for jumping in here) but Kathy is talking about her Biewers and showing them at the International All Breed Canine Association of America (IABCA), one of only 2 registries that recognizes Biewers at this time. The other is the North American Kennel Club (NAKC). Members on this forum who have Biewers are showing in both organizations. In all 3 shows that I attended there were AKC Yorkies being shown to receive their International ranking. The IABCA uses AKC & CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) judges.

http://www.iabca.com/
http://www.raritiesinc.ca/

This is on the IABCA website.

"International Titles in the United States?"

It is possible to earn an International UCI Title in the United States. The dogs are rated individually, not against the other dogs, so the judges travel instead of the dogs.

The International All Breed Canine Association of America (IABCA) began approximately ten years ago with the intent of making an International "UCI" Championship Title available to the American public while not exposing the dogs to the danger and inconvenience of international travel. To accomplish this, an association was formed with an International Association of dog clubs headquartered in Germany, the Union Cynologie International (UCI). The UCI organization has been in existence for almost 30 years. There are many countries, throughout Europe, North America and the Far East, represented in the association, making it a truly International Organization. Through this International Organization (UCI), International Titles are awarded to dogs who meet the requirements.

IABCA shows are held in accordance with the regulations and guidelines that have been established by UCI. These guidelines provide for a WRITTEN CRITIQUE OF EACH DOG ENTERED and a rating number (see Rating Chart) of how well the dog conforms to the International "UCI" breed standard. The rating a dog received, based on the critique, will determine the type of championship certificate, if any, is awarded in the class (see rating chart and title requirements). However, each dog will receive an "URKUNDE" (certificate of participation) with it's class placement noted.

The International "UCI" standards are based on the "country of origin" for each breed, if possible. NOTE: It is not a requirement that a dog be registered with IABCA to be exhibited at a sanctioned show. However, in order for any certificates awarded to be applicable towards a "UCI" title THE DOG MUST BE REGISTERED WITH IABCA WITHIN 40 DAYS AFTER THE SHOW DATE.

Who Shows At International Shows?

The typical entry at an IABCA International Show is an AKC recognized breed (around 80% of the entry is made up of these breeds.) The number of Rare Breeds showing is growing each year. The overall quality of the dogs is quite high, with many of the dogs already Champions of Record. The majority of the dogs are owner handled, but professional handling is allowed. Breeder/Owner handling is recognized with the Best Bred-by Exhibitor in Show Award. Seasoned exhibitors enjoy having an additional venue to show their quality dogs and earn additional titles "International". The shows are also, good for the novice exhibitor, providing an opportunity to "show" their dogs in a relaxed atmosphere, within a learning environment. A primary focus of the IABCA shows is education and a sharing of knowledge, between the exhibitors and the judges. Many exhibitors enjoy the shows because of the relaxed atmosphere of a small show where every exhibit has a ?good look? due to the written critiques. The International shows have a social atmosphere of a day out with your dog. The judges enjoy the shows because they can take the time to talk to each exhibitor without time limits.

ABOUT ALLE RASSE GRUPPE

The Alle Rasse Gruppe (translates to All Breed Group) is the first club formed in the United States under the parent club IABCA. International UCI Shows held in the U.S. are hosted by groups sanctioned by IABCA. These shows are held according to all rules and guidelines of UCI, and IABCA.

BEST BRED-BY IN SHOW RULES

Every Show Day in addition to the regular Best In Show Selections there will be chosen Best In Show Bred-By Exhibitor in all categories (Adult, Puppy, and Veteran). The regular Best In Show is open to all dogs entered into the show that day (no additional entry fee need be paid). Exhibitors wishing to also enter the Best Bred-By In Show competition must pay an additional fee of $5.00 to compete in the Special Best In Show. (They will be eligible for two Best In Shows, hence the additional fee).

The exhibitor of the dog must be the breeder of the dog, but does not have to own the dog as of the show date. The breeder or their immediate family must handle the dog at the class level and in the Best Bred-By competition. If ,for medical reasons, the breeder-exhibitor is unable to fully handle, an assistant in the ring will be allowed to run the dog, but the breeder must be present in the ring present the dog for examination.

Adult dogs may be entered in the Best In Show Bred-By Exhibitor competition from any class by stating Best Bred-By in the Additional Class Space on the entry form. (They do not have to be shown in the ZuchterKlasse <bred-by class> to be eligible.)

Puppies must be entered in the ZuchterKlasse of the appropriate age in order to compete in the Best Bred-by Puppy competition.

"Written Critiques from the Judge?"

You will receive a full written critique when you leave the ring.

Seems as if it might be a good way for some to practice and train their puppy. I'm wondering how they distinguish their championship title from an AKC Championship title which is much more difficult to obtain. It seems as if it could be confusing for newcomers when a dog is represented as Champion. Most people I believe feel when they see Ch. in front of a dogs name, they would generally assume it was an AKC title.

Did you know it's easier than that to get a Championship Title on your dog.......I received an e-mail telling me that all I had to do was send them a picture of my dog and they'd have judges assess it and for a fee they'd make him a Champion............now anyone's dog can put champion in their dog's title, without going through the AKC point system.

It's pretty normal to have 4 shows in one weekend with ukc. And in some cases, when we attended the Friday show, we ended up showing in 5 shows in one weekend. Talk about needing a foot rub on Sunday night. I am pretty sure ukc awards a reserve best puppy. I'll ask a friend to make sure I'm correct. I do know for a fact that they give a reserve BIS right before BIS is awarded. Giant ribbon with a prize just like BIS just a different color.

I got that too lol

If I thought it was that easy, wow the money I would save, let alone going up against stiff competition in the quest for AKC approval of your dogs.

heck I think Im going to make everyone in my house a champion including the fish lol

Heck! Why not.....even the stuffed animals. What is sad is there are some people out there that would do it to pass their dogs off as Champions to the unsuspecting companion buyers.

Mary Ann - Having attended both AKC shows and IABCA shows you are right the atmosphere is entirely different and the Judges take a lot more time judging the dogs in IABCA without the politics involved.

I would also agree with you that most people would assume when people post wins that it would be AKC but we all know what the word assumes means.:p It is difficult for people to understand about the different registry's and I have to agree with you people should be stating the registry their dogs have earned title, points, etc. Certainly would make it easier on everyone.

May I ask what registry did you get this email from?

If this is IABCA I am sure many Biewer owners would have a great big BITCH about this. They are spending a lot of $$$ and time to follow the German requirements. I totally understand how difficult it is to receive points in AKC with the many show entries that come to a show. Probably at the beginning of the Yorkie world in AKC many of the first recognized Yorkies earned points for just showing up. I will tell you I saw the AKC judges pulling orange cards in California for Biewers that were not standard so points were just not handed out. At the Ca show we had about 15 dogs both puppy and adult so the competition was a little stiffer. What is missing is enough entries to make it a tough competition and yes people can earn points without a lot of competition but this is to be expected in a new breed. Correct me if I am wrong, but depending on the area an AKC breeder shows in, it can be tougher or easier to get points, depending on the competition. I have heard of AKC breeders shipping show dogs to other parts of the country where the competition is not as tough to get their championship/points.

I really don't think the general public understands about points and titles even in the AKC world..It is a bit overwhelming even for a new show person.

Please understand I am not a breeder or a handler and all of my dogs are pet quality. This is just my observation but I do know people who are competing in the IABCA and I have attended 3 shows (which I know is not a hugh amount) along with many, many AKC shows as a Yorkie/Dog Fancier.

My hat is off to any Yorkie Show Breeder because it is one big tough competition for all of you and I can only hope in 50 years the Biewers will be in the same spot as you are today.

Good Luck.

Cindy is right, the shows were IABCA. Two shows Saturday and two on Sunday. They do all of the BIS for both shows at the end of the day. While multiple dogs can earn championships at a show, only one dog and puppy can earn BIS rare breed dog and puppy for the whole weekend. There is a BIS competion for each show, so 4 BIS are given out. To me these wins are the bigger honors, as it means my puppies were judged against all of the puppies in the show and came out on top. My newest addition, a male from Germany, won BIS Rare breed puppy after being in the US 3 days!

At IABCA shows, you win medallions for class wins (ex. best Biewer puppy), a numbered medallion for group placings up to 4 (ex. toy group), Large ribbons for BIS, reserve BIS, Rare breed BIS

In the one picture the two judges are holding all of the medallions the girls won and the other is holding the ribbons that each one won for Reserve BIS puppy.

The other picture shows my boy, Tobias, with his BIS Rare Breed puppy ribbon. I did not get all of his medallions out. As you can see I was having a hard enough time straightening out my sleeve to hide my long underwear.

These shows are very relaxed, and the judges very helpful. They actually talk to you! I had never shown a dog before and they helped me through the class. They also understand if a puppy acts up a bit.

Sorry for the novel here! If you want to know any more, I would be more than happy to talk to you about IABCA. If you think you might like to start showing, this is a great place to get your feet wet before moving on to the more rigid or strict setting of AKC.

Forgot to mention that the large trophy is just a prop. Looks impressive though!

I guess this is by far my favorite forum to read here these days, I learn so much here.
I pm'd a member a while back asking for info on the international shows. She gave me run down on it all..I had no clue really.

I wanted to add more about judges from the above posts...
I have shown in both akc and ukc, more so in ukc but have got my feet wet in akc. I noticed one thing in paticular, the judges in ukc were all so helpful and didn't mind speaking with us on an individual basis. They seemed to make time for us and were happy to help us out, answer questions, ect. One in paticular went out of their way to help my daughter (novice junior) and I was very grateful to say the least. I realize there have been some changes made recently with the rules for judging and there is alot of hoopla going on about judging in both registries (akc and ukc at same time) Alot of the judges in ukc (were) before the new rules also akc judges and some of them show in ukc. One in paticular, Matt Proctor was just awesome to us and he took time to speak to us and answer questions. There are a few more that were also very kind and went out of their way to speak to us. I guess my point is that at the akc shows I've attended it was more difficult to get one on one time with a judge vs. ukc. Many of the ukc shows I've attended were huge just like the akc shows I've attended but we seemed to have a better chance at actually sitting down and speaking with a judge with ukc. I plan to show with both registries in the coming months but I seem to really enjoy the ukc shows for some reason. Even when we're losing, lol!

I'm a bit confused about your statement on AKC judges pulling orange cards on Biewer dogs......It's my understanding that AKC does not recognize the Biewer as a breed onto itself.....

No, I don't think yorkies were awarded points just for showing up. If you study the history of the yorkie and how it has evolved....dog showing was a sport of gentry.....Yorkies evolving from Huddersfield Ben of Great Britian.

Though their are other registries within the United States, and I'm sure wonderful places to show & learn without the politics. Eukanuba, Westminster are AKC events, as are the majority of dog shows in the country.

The point system for obtaining Championship is still 15 points any where in the US, of those 15 it requires 2 Major Wins.....that is what differs from region to region. California, requires less dogs & bitches for a Major than say maybe, Texas/OK....Competition is still stiff, now matter where you go, as there are wonderful speciman's of the yorkie in every region. Then you have the handlers that travel all over the country campaigning with top dogs that can show up at anytime. Or you go to a Breed Specialty, where hundreds of the best dogs show up and the competition is really stiff. You can visit the AKC website and it explains the point system, region and breed.

[QUOTE=livingdustmops]May I ask what registry did you get this email from?

Can't even remember, as it wasn't worth keeping, just laughed, shook my head, knowing that there are plenty of disreputable people out there that would take advantage of it.

Kathy, I appreciate your information. I showed dog in AKC competitions several years before I had children, so the feet have definitely been wet. I showed my own breed which was Dachshunds, at the time, along with Afghan Hounds. I also showed Bassetts, a Greyhound that belonged to my best friend I traveled with, French Bulldogs (one of which I had forgotten until I pulled his picture out this week) became the #1 Frenchie and numerous other breeds for people and professional handlers to learn everything I could. I stopped to raise my 4 children but never lost the love of the sport. I have really enjoyed watching the larger shows on television and seeing some of the professional handlers that have become judges, some that are still handling, and judges that are still judging. I really don't think things have changed to much. I found most of the AKC judges to be very helpful. They usually have very full days of judging and don't have a lot of time to discuss someones dog during a show, but were always willing to discuss dogs whenever they had the time. They may seem a little reserved, but, you also need to consider, they have to be a little cautious because of the people that will approach them demanding to know why "Little Fido" didn't win and suffer from the dreaded "kennel blindness" syndrome. All in all, there is no greater feeling than that of winning at an AKC show when you're competiting with the top show breeders and professional handlers in the country!

Hope to clear up some of your confusion, the show in California was an IABCA show, as Cindy stated, but the judges are AKC and CKC (Canadian). And I did see them pulling orange cards on less than standard dogs. You are correct that the AKC does not recognize the Biewer. Hopefully in the future, they will. There is also the possibility they never will. All breeds have had to "pay their dues" so to speak, in order to become an AKC sanctioned breed. Time will tell with the Biewer.

As far as "dogs showing up to get points" back in the early Yorkie show history, I would think that there were not as many dogs showing as there are today. As an example, the possibility that there were only 3 dogs showing, would they all "place" First, Second or Third? In today's ring, if there were 15 dogs showing, 3 dogs would "place" and 12 would go home with no win. I will be the first to say that I do not understand the point system of the AKC, and it looks like now I have more research to do. Thank you for the suggestion to read about it.

Here is a quote that I found on another thread that addresses what Cindy pointed out about AKC dogs being shown in different places in the country in order to finish their dogs where the competition is not so difficult.

I want to add that I am NOT dissing the AKC shows at all. I too realize that they are the "premium" shows to attend, both as an entrant and a spectator. The dedication. hard work and expense that it takes to show your dogs is overwhelming. I have enormous respect for anyone taking on that challenge -- regardless what registry they are showing in. I love to watch the Eukanuba and Westminster -- not only to get a glimpse of the gorgeous yorkies who are up for Best in Group -- but to enjoy the beauty and glory of ALL the breeds. I feel that the dogs who reach this level are truly the best of the best -- politics or not! And, maybe sometime in the future, I will have the pleasure of watching the Biewer there as well.

Please keep us informed of your accomplishments, as well as helping us to learn from your expertise. Good luck!

Yes, a friend of mine did send her dog to central states to be finished. However, her reasons were not because she couldn't finish him where she lived. She'd only shown 1 or maybe twice. She became with child and couldn't show him.....had a handler in line and it didn't work out, so she sent the dog to a handler in Oklahoma. The Oklahoma, Texas, NM division is one of the toughest to finish your dog. So, you must have a great representative of the breed before thinking about entering the ring. By the way the dog she sent is a wonderful speciman of the breed and will be campaigned as a special.....that's how nice he is. His finishing in 3 consecutive weekends is not done everyday......

Oh! There are 4 placing ribbons in each class in AKC, a WD, WD, RWD, RWB, BOB, BOW and BOS. And I have seen AKC judges withold ribbons.

Please don't think that I was in any questioning the quality of the dog! I believe that a dog to have accomplished what he did in any amount of shows, has got to be a wonderful speciman of the breed. In the quote that I used -- you said that you had "...heard that Majors have been difficult on the East Coast. Not here in the Central States." Maybe I misinterpreted it wrong, but my understanding of this comment was that there was some reason why it was easier to finish in the Central States -- possibly not as many dogs in the ring?

Would you mind sharing the name of this dog -- as I am sure there are many of us Yorkie Fanciers who would love to watch his progression, and maybe we can see him win the Eukanuba or Westminster shows in the near future!

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge!

The reason it is getting difficult to finish a dog on the East Coast is because of the requirement of 2 Majors and Majors keep on breaking...due to dogs being entered and not showing. More dog shows and dogs seem to appear here in this region and the traveling distance is not as difficult.

I wish I could but, it wouldn't be ethical without obtaining his owner's permission.

In order to have a 3 point major here in Va. you have to have 9 dogs competing, I believe it's 16 for a 5 point. If you'll look up past entries for the last 4 years you'll find that that only happens occationally in the more populated areas (like Manasses last year). Guess I'll be heading North this year. The requirements for bitches are even higher, go figure!

.

In this region its 8 dogs and 10 bitches for a 3 point Major.....but, the shows are there every weekend and in closer proximity. I've been lucky and alot is luck....I finished my last 2 boys with 3 back-to-back-to back 3 & 4 point Majors