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-   -   Advice: Teething/Bite (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-showing-information/187094-advice-teething-bite.html)

Brooklynn 10-18-2009 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2844485)
In regards to bites, which is the most desirable, even or scissor? Will a reverse scissor bite hurt a dog in the show ring? Do judges really count off that much if the bite is slightly off? I have heard that if the bite is off a little that it is no big deal.
LOL...Barb I hope you are asking for someone else, sorry had to laugh...you show you should know LOL...but to answer your question....it says in the standard scissor bite but an even bite is accepted....I've seen dogs not placed because the teeth weren't exactly 6 between the canines and I've seen some judges but up a parrot mouth so depends if the judge is a tooth fairy or not.
Donna

Mardelin 10-18-2009 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2844485)
In regards to bites, which is the most desirable, even or scissor? Will a reverse scissor bite hurt a dog in the show ring? Do judges really count off that much if the bite is slightly off? I have heard that if the bite is off a little that it is no big deal.
Reverse Scissor????? are you speaking too undershot. There is not disqualification for bite. However, the standard reads level or scissor. One has to look at the jaw to access if it is a structural issue....in that case if you breed you are taking a chance that some offspring
will have that issue and pass it on.

Judges if judging as they are taught, they are not looking at the faults but, the dogs good points and bouncing those points against the standard.

Ladyhawk 10-18-2009 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2844485)
In regards to bites, which is the most desirable, even or scissor? Will a reverse scissor bite hurt a dog in the show ring? Do judges really count off that much if the bite is slightly off? I have heard that if the bite is off a little that it is no big deal.
The standard says the a scissor bite is preferable. I haven't shown a dog that didn't have a scissor bite so I don't know how much it counts with the judge. Good question.

Mardelin 10-18-2009 12:40 PM
Head
.
Small and rather flat on top, the skull not too prominent or round, the muzzle not too long, with the bite neither undershot nor overshot and teeth sound. Either scissors bite or level bite is acceptable. The nose is black.

Mardelin 10-18-2009 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 2844484)
I know what ya mean! It's not something you just dabble in! It's quite an expensive hobby! No wonder byb's or puppymills aren't interested in bettering the breed cuts into their profits...

Donna
Profits, Profits.....what's that......aren't you in the hole, just like me?

bjh 10-18-2009 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2844488)
Reverse Scissor????? are you speaking too undershot. There is not disqualification for bite. However, the standard reads level or scissor. One has to look at the jaw to access if it is a structural issue....in that case if you breed you are taking a chance that some offspring
will have that issue and pass it on.

Judges if judging as they are taught, they are not looking at the faults but, the dogs good points and bouncing those points against the standard.
Okay, if I understand this correctly, a level bite is where the front teeth top and bottom come together evenly, a scissor bite is where the top front teeth overlap the bottom teeth but there is no gap. What I refer to as a reverse scissor bite it where the top and bottom teeth touch but the top front teeth touch the back of the bottom front teeth but there is no gap. A overshot bite would be if the top front teeth extend beyond the bottom teeth, leaving a gap and a undershot is where the bottom front teeth extend beyond the top teeth leaving a gap.

Since I have not had an opportunity to look in the mouth of many show dogs I was just more curious if there are many dogs being shown with bites that are slightly off and still winning. I know from my experience with other breeds in years past that the judges did not pay much attention to bite unless it was severely off.

Brooklynn 10-18-2009 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 2844505)
Okay, if I understand this correctly, a level bite is where the front teeth top and bottom come together evenly, a scissor bite is where the top front teeth overlap the bottom teeth but there is no gap. What I refer to as a reverse scissor bite it where the top and bottom teeth touch but the top front teeth touch the back of the bottom front teeth but there is no gap. A overshot bite would be if the top front teeth extend beyond the bottom teeth, leaving a gap and a undershot is where the bottom front teeth extend beyond the top teeth leaving a gap.

Since I have not had an opportunity to look in the mouth of many show dogs I was just more curious if there are many dogs being shown with bites that are slightly off and still winning. I know from my experience with other breeds in years past that the judges did not pay much attention to bite unless it was severely off.
It's called "undershot"...unacceptable!!! Things have changed since years past...you will have judges that are a tooth fairy and if the teeth are off you'll not get a ribbon and if the judge isn't and looking at the over all dog a slightly overshot won't be a problem or an undershot but when I show a dog it will have a level or scissor bite....undershot or overshot or rye is placed as a pet...period!

Donna

Mardelin 10-18-2009 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 2844510)
It's called "undershot"...unacceptable!!! Things have changed since years past...you will have judges that are a tooth fairy and if the teeth are off you'll not get a ribbon and if the judge isn't and looking at the over all dog a slightly overshot won't be a problem or an undershot but when I show a dog it will have a level or scissor bite....undershot or overshot or rye is placed as a pet...period!

Donna
As Donna explained.....it all depends on the judge. However, one must look at the dogs mouth and access the jaw, if there is a jaw misalignment, most likely it is a structural issue and as Donna said the dog should not be bred.

As to your question whether there are many dogs being shown whose bites are slightly off, since I don't look in the mouths of other's dogs, I couldn't tell you.

Mardelin 10-18-2009 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2844511)
As Donna explained.....it all depends on the judge. However, one must look at the dogs mouth and access the jaw, if there is a jaw misalignment, most likely it is a structural issue and as Donna said the dog should not be bred.

As to your question whether there are many dogs being shown whose bites are slightly off, since I don't look in the mouths of other's dogs, I couldn't tell you.
Let me add one thing to above. As breeder/exhibitors that are having their breeding stock evaluated and approved. It is our responsibility to take the judge the best representation of the breed.....including bites, rears, toplines, fronts, ear sets......etc.

Brooklynn 10-18-2009 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2844511)
As Donna explained.....it all depends on the judge. However, one must look at the dogs mouth and access the jaw, if there is a jaw misalignment, most likely it is a structural issue and as Donna said the dog should not be bred.

As to your question whether there are many dogs being shown whose bites are slightly off, since I don't look in the mouths of other's dogs, I couldn't tell you.
You're right...I couldn't answer that question either because most exhibitors wouldn't allow you to look in their mouth if there were a problem and I've never had anyone come and ask me to look in my yorkies mouth LOL...but of course if that were to ever happen I would oblige them as my yorkies either have a level or scissor bite because I don't breed undershot or overshot mouths...

Donna

Ladyhawk 10-18-2009 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2844497)
Head
.
Small and rather flat on top, the skull not too prominent or round, the muzzle not too long, with the bite neither undershot nor overshot and teeth sound. Either scissors bite or level bite is acceptable. The nose is black.
The Illustrated Discussion says scissors bite preferred, page 12. In an undershot, overshot, or rye mouth the secondary molars will not align properly. Instead of lining up like the teeth of pinking sheers they will align on top of each other. In alot of cases the canines won't align properly either.

bjh 10-18-2009 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 2844486)
LOL...Barb I hope you are asking for someone else, sorry had to laugh...you show you should know LOL...but to answer your question....it says in the standard scissor bite but an even bite is accepted....I've seen dogs not placed because the teeth weren't exactly 6 between the canines and I've seen some judges but up a parrot mouth so depends if the judge is a tooth fairy or not.
Donna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 2844510)
It's called "undershot"...unacceptable!!! Things have changed since years past...you will have judges that are a tooth fairy and if the teeth are off you'll not get a ribbon and if the judge isn't and looking at the over all dog a slightly overshot won't be a problem or an undershot but when I show a dog it will have a level or scissor bite....undershot or overshot or rye is placed as a pet...period!

Donna
Donna, I really have not shown yorkies that much and I still have lots to learn. I know the bite is important just as all structure is. Since there are no perfect dogs I was just wondering why breeders say never breed a dog with a bite that is not perfect but yet they breed dogs with other structural problems. All the dogs I have in my breeding program have nice bites but I still occasionally will get a pup with a bad bite. I recently had a litter with two over shot pups and that really puzzled me because up until that litter I had only had two over shot pups over the years. Both parents had nice bites so I guess somewhere back in the bloodline there might have been a bite problem or do these bad bites just show up no matter how careful you are?:confused::confused:

What is a rye mouth?

bjh 10-18-2009 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 2844542)
The Illustrated Discussion says scissors bite preferred, page 12. In an undershot, overshot, or rye mouth the secondary molars will not align properly. Instead of lining up like the teeth of pinking sheers they will align on top of each other. In alot of cases the canines won't align properly either.
Thanks, you just answered my earlier question.

Mardelin 10-18-2009 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 2844542)
The Illustrated Discussion says scissors bite preferred, page 12. In an undershot, overshot, or rye mouth the secondary molars will not align properly. Instead of lining up like the teeth of pinking sheers they will align on top of each other. In alot of cases the canines won't align properly either.
Tami,

I have the illustrated standard, but, most judges will refer to the "Standard" when judging.

Ladyhawk 10-18-2009 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2844546)
Tami,

I have the illustrated standard, but, most judges will refer to the "Standard" when judging.
I love the illustrated, it's so much clearer with pictures.


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