Based on personal experience, you are so right. I guess when I started out the only registery I knew was AKC...I knew nothing of the others.....so, that's where I went. Yes, there are the politics, and it's a long hard haul, but the reward of finishing your first Champion and then taking a win in th Bred By Class is pure elation.

Okay I want to add my 2 cents worth. I went through the whole thread and read each post. I agree that an AKC title is pretty special, it's a goal to strive for just as are invites to Eukanuba, Westminster, and Crufts. However until the standard is revised in a way that is clear for all judges to understand i decided to take my female out of AKC until she clears. She is currently 16 months . I did show her for the first year in AKC but unfortunately didn't get any points because either she was the only Yorkie that showed up even though there were quite a few entered or there were professional handlers there that brouight dog in with high rears or their gait was off. but yet they ended up with the points. I love showing regardless of the venue being AKC or UKC. For me showing is fun I don't care about politics and I usually talk to everyone I meet at either venue. unless of course they are snotty then I just find someone else to talk to. i had so much fun showing that I decided to take my female to UKC and show her. Yes I finished her she is now a UKC Champion and I am very proud of that because she and I worked very hard to get it. The people on my waiting list all know that she is a UKC Champion and that I showed in both. She comes from both AKC and UKC Champions. I didn't go to UKC to get a Champion title , I went because I love showing.Hopefully later this year or early next year I will be showing a friends Yorkie in AKC. And possibly my first bred by.

This is a great thread! :thumbup: I really love to hear about all the details of showing and the breeder's point of view.

Another thread had the points broken down - which I printed out so that I could refer to it :p (senior moments)

Mary, could you please explain what "cross over points" and "to put up a handler" means?

AKC v UKC
 

AkC has been trying for years to get rid of BOWs They say there are too many cheap Champions out there and to a point I have to agree. I have a friend who finished a boy FAST and he never defeated another dog from his own sex! If there was no BOWs he would have taken a much longer time to finish.
Yeah, majors are hard to find BUT remember each year the points change based on the number of dogs showing the last 3 years.
As far as handlers go, its their business, when a Breeder/owner/handler losses it easy to say the judge was political, BUT remember if the handler doesn't win he won't have any dogs to show. A handler Always presents a dog to its BEST, Grooming is perfect, he knows his dogs faults as well as yours. It called being professional.
A GREAT seminar to attend is George Alston's he has the inside on the handlers and why a Breeder/owner/handler really has the advantage. He also wrote a book, but if you can attend a seminar you will be blown away! He made me cry when I first took his class and I had been showing 20 yrs and had several Best in Shows, BUT I learned.

SPARKLING BLU YORKIES:animal-pa

good info
 

very interesting. I will print this post. TK

I understand both sides of this. As far as BOW being a cheap win.....I'm not sure if I agree. I know that in Texas, where the point system is pretty tough....Majors are usually in Bitches from January through August, for some reason or another the males aren't brought out until August. As far as not beating other males, that isn't entirely true, more times than not the number of dogs is just under a Major.....so dogs are defeated.

Handlers are Professional, but, as you and I know they can finish a dead cat and do take dogs in that probably shouldn't even be shown. I've beat handlers and I don't have a problem losing to them, as long as they have the better dog. But, when you have a judge that doesn't base their decision on anything other than the handler, then that's a bit hard to swallow.

SCHEDULE OF POINTS FOR DIVISION 7 - EFFECTIVE MAY 13, 2009
Division 7 is comprised of: Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas.
Major Major Major
1 POINT 2 POINTS 3 POINTS 4 POINTS 5 POINTS
Dogs Bitches Dogs Bitches Dogs Bitches Dogs Bitches Dogs Bitches

2 2 6 7 9 11 11 13 15 17
So, at any given show you might have a Major in both Dog's and Bitches. But, most of the time you may have a Major in one sex only. But, the judge has the option of awarding Best Of Winners to the Winners Dog or Bitch that didn't have the Major, thus crossing over the points and giving it the Major anyway.

Now as far as putting up a handler. Well handlers, being that is their job, do travel all over the country, judges get to know them. Yes, the handlers are professional. However, some judges are political and will automatically give the points to the dog that the handler is handling, based on who the handler is.

Ditto Mary! I have found it lately that judges haven't been crossing over the majors so BOW's isn't a cheap win. We as owner/breder/exhibitors have to take in the best dog against a handler in my opinion but then again I've beaten the handlers and have lost. It happens because it is "their" job not mine and unfortunately some judges will just put up handlers.
I also didn't know about UKC until I was probably in my 4th year showing AKC and I still prefer AKC.
Anyway that is my 2 cents LOL

Donna

So, what to do now. If judges aren't crossing over points and you need Majors......and the Major is in the other sex.....You don't go, why waste further money. AKC doesn't care anyway, they've got their percentage.....

This is what I have been saying the whole time. yes, they can be beat but it hardly ever happens. especially with some judges and even some shows are well known to be "handler shows".

Dee,

I don't agree with you. I've beaten handlers alot. After awhile your grooming, handling and presentation skills get as good as theirs. You know your dogs faults and quirks, you find their buttons (and each dog is different). You go in the ring knowing you've got the best dog there. And in defense of handlers, they are willing to help you, all you need to do is ask..... And as others have said, that AKC Championship Title is still the most coveted. The competition is tough, but nothing worth getting is easy.

I have to agree again! I went to NY to the biggest toy show in the US and beat a number of handlers :) I've learned from the handlers themselves, like Mary said just ask and most are willing to help and share some knowledge. I've been lucky to have some top handlers help me and give me tips, show me things ect....
I think I've gotten to be just as good but of course I'm still learning and gaining knowledge all the time :)

Donna

Donna,

You're right all those skills don't come overnight, not even in the first year. It takes awhile before things come to you 2nd nature. You and I were lucky enough to travel with handlers and learn first hand. But, you still have to practice, practice, practice. Come to think about it, at times I'd prefer to be in the ring with handlers, you get a chance to watch first hand and pick up some skills.

This part is very true! I love when I'm in the ring with handlers because I pick up so much from just watching them and then taking what I see and see if it works on my dog. Sometimes it doesn't but I'm telling ya most of the time the little things you can pick up in the ring is amazing!!!

As a novice, (I had thought) you do think that the handlers are winning all the time, since you do not really win a lot as a novice often. That is because it takes time to know exactly what to do; grooming techniques, handling your dog to perfection in the ring, training, procedures, etc... Also most novices dogs are just not as good always as some that have been showing awhile. Most of the dogs that handlers show come from top kennels too. Not all, but quite a few.

I remember when I was a newbie and what kind of dog I first took into the ring - I laugh at it now. I loved my girl, but since I was new I had no idea she was really a pet. I have photos to remember this. And my grooming and ring performance - ugh!!!! Boy, did I need help. Well, I watch and worked hard, and got help, and then got a much better dog and my winnings improved greatly in the ring. I have beaten handlers on occasions when I have shown now, but it took awhile. If I had given up back then - I would never be where I am today. You just cannot give up and just keep trying and learning. Everytime you go into an AKC ring - you learn more, I know I have. And I am still learning. When I came back to showing this time, I had learned from before years and years ago when I showed and knew more, so this time winning was a lot easier, but I was nervous going back into the ring again. I am getting better now - the more I go in.