No, neither is right you'd be correct...however, if I had to choose to dye a dog or have a dog with a bad rear movement, bad topline, health issues, take a BIG GUESS which I'd choose??? To some, color is important and in fact seems to be more important than how the dog is put together and whether or not it's got health issues soooo I believe it does have something to do with the other! If a show breeder believes all the dog needs is the dark steel blue and the long flowing coat and worries about nothing else I believe that is more wrong than worrying about whether or not the dog is dyed! JMHO
:::eyeroll:::

Donna Bird
Brookynn's Yorkshire Terriers

the choice is not given :rolleyes:

LOL :)

Wow!:eek:

Brooklynn :friendsh:

Thank you, this helps a lot!!

Thanks everyone else for their responses too, Learn something new everyday!

I would rather lose to a yorkie that is sound both in mind and body with a dyed silky coat...than lose to a fabulous natural coat on a dog with LP...narrow rears...poor topline...sloped shoulders...etc...like Donna said it is just the icing...;)

Now could I ever dye a dog?...I do not think so...I would never sleep...lol...

There is a story, not sure if it was ever posted here, and I can not remember the breed, it was a breed I was shocked to hear was colored in the ring...lol...but a young girl was handling the dog...took him in and won...when she was getting her picture taken with the judge, the judge commented on how nicely groomed the dog was...the girl replied.."thanks I colored him myself" ROFLOL...

There is a lot that goes on in any hobby and any sport for that extra advantage...there are several things I am sure some do that I have yet to learn about...but you have to take the good with the bad...

This is a very interesting reading.
Some of you may enjoy.


http://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_bre...entplanets.cfm

Deana
Prestigeous

Quite a few breeders will dye a bitches coat after she has had a litter just to get those last few points as she has lightened up in color do to hormons during pregnancy.

Dont forget about the judge Suzanne Dillon also DQ's for color also.

Personally, I wouldnt dye a dog. I concentrate on structure, movement and health first. The hair is the icing on the cake. But I wont show a black adult or one with obvious soft hair either. Also, if I dyed a dog, it would look like I dyed the dog!!LOL I wouldnt know where to begin. I dont even dye my own hair(Its actually gone from an ugly mousy brown to a beautiful silver!!!LOL)

And, yes, Mr Usherwood is a total a*s!!IMO He was the judge that DQ'd almost the entire ring.

Hmm...do I live in the US or I'm still in a Soviet? :rolleyes:

did I miss something? What does that mean?:confused:

The thumbprint is the natural progression of going from the black and tan head of the puppy to the golden tan head of an adult. As the hair grows out the black becomes thinner giving way to the gold until it has faded away. Occationally in very dark dogs it doesn't go away and we say that the head failed to clear. The length of time that it takes to clear depends on the growth rate of the hair and other hereditary factors.

Thank you, that was interesting.

A friend just e-mailed me a letter that was written by Mr. Usherwood on Jan 12, 2008. Basically it said that he is only doing his job as a judge and following the YTCA standard. He has been judging Yorkies for 30 some years and now has been villified in a matter of a day after he did his duty to DQ. He mentioned the AZ show and stated that none of the exhibitors entered were aware of the color change, so he brought copies adn handed them out. He also said that he has every right to sue anyone who deliberately tarnishes his name, but doesnt desire to go to that extreme.

Well, that just shows how the change to the YT standard as made things even more confusing. If you read the standard it says the color should be 'dark steel blue' so the judge was justified in his mind to DQ the light dogs. Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think some judges will be making a statement by DQing dogs. I know it will have to be 7 years before the standard can be changed again but I just wish the YTCA had thought a little hard about the wording when they added the disqualification.

He's within his right to DQ as he deems fit and how he interputs the standard and DQ, it is his ring. And it's within my right as an exhibitor not to enter under him :) I don't think anyone would tarnish anyone's name as to how they use the DQ but we can discuss what we think and choose not to enter. This is in no way tarnishing anyone's reputation :) I did say it was within his right as it is with any other judge :) When a judge DQ's it's made public with show results so it's not like it's not seen by the public or exhibitors as to which judge is DQ'ing. There are judges I refuse to enter under and it has nothing to do with the DQ so I am exercising my right also to not enter under certain judges :) Awww the freedom of being an American LOL

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

It is just stating a fact that he DQd and that is not a liability to do so.
It is simply stating a fact, which is our right to do just as he has a right to DQ light dogs due to the new DQ added to the standard.
It is public knowledge as it is listed in the results, just as who won at that show, you can see the judge, the dogs who were DQd or who won at what show and date etc.
I do like knowing who DQd and what age and what they DQd for so I can choose to spend my show money wisely when entering a pup or a dog that may be a bit lighter but have everything else going on, because we all know there is no perfect dogs, so that means all have some fault wether it be color or something else. I would take color as a fault over any other fault.
I have always said color was my last worry. So much more to breeding than color.

Deana
Prestigeous

If I'm not mistaken Mr. Usherwood DQ'ed a young adult that hadn't cleared yet in the gold or maybe it was that the gold was white and hadn't turned that shaded gold yet...and I believe the dog wasn't that light....and it's 5 years that we have to stay with this standard before it can be reconsidered not 7 :)

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Thanks for clarifying that.

Didn't want anyone thinking it was 2 more years than it really was LOL ;)

Well, I must be blinder than a bat because I looked all over those two sites someone mentioned and I can't see anything about the judges that DQ'd. i myself, am not going to waste my time and money entering shows where i know I won't have a chance. plus the fact that several hours travel and gas are required for me to go to a show. I am thinking about putting my gal in the Franklin, Tennessee show just to test the waters. Not sure if that is a good idea or not. At least it is only three hours away so not much time and gas involved there.

I know it's hard to find but you to look at all the past show results and look until you find a DQ beside a dog's name for instance go to onofrio.com and go to show information and then go up to the drop down box and find show results and scroll down to the Amarillo shows and click on it and then to the left scroll down to toys and then yorkies and you'll find where a judge DQ'ed a dog and I'm not sure if Bradshaw has a show results page to look at Arizona where Usherwood DQ'ed the dog not sure. You will find on infodog go to show information and then there will be links for months or weeks not sure and then you'll have to find a CA show not sure what dates it was and you'll find where Ms. Olmos-Oliver DQ'ed a dog. It's alot of looking but it's there publically. Also you can't always know if you have a chance at a dog show regardless even if it's local....there is always that chance you'll lose or win you just have to get out there until you know what judges like your dog and which ones don't. I pretty much know some judges I won't show too because my dog just isn't their type and there are judges I still haven't shown too so I guess we'll just have to see....and besides I usually find out through email or another list who DQ'ed. Only chance you got at winning is if there is no other dog entered LOL.....nothing is guaranteed in the dog show world ROFL

Here are the results from Usherwood's judging...where it says SUCM next to the entry...those are the dogs that were DQ.

http://www.jbradshaw.com/42/ind107.htm

Thanks! I didn't know if Bradshaw had show results :) Now I can go look on their site as well....

It helps to know what AKC judge DQ'ed if you go to AKC shows and are on other lists with show exhibitors....not all of YT shows yorkies :)

Donna,
Like I told you before you are absoulutly right. All this nonsense about dyed coats when you know there are all the hidden problems going on
with
the breed like shunts,lp.bad rears toplines bad fronts and all the other inner
gentic problems but yet all the focus is on the color hmmmm wonder
how the future yorkie will look in the next ten years. maybe we will get
the correct color with enough practice but what about everthing else.
they won't be able to walk into the ring to even become a ch. because
they would need there crutch to help them in because of there bad knees
or bad hips ect. and most likley off spring would only live not past
4 because of the liver shunts. uhhhhhh show breeders if they are truley interested in the betterment of the breed would produce healthy
yorkies period coat will come. sorry I just have to vent somtime.Need
to really focus on what matters and that is keeping the yorkshire terrier
alive and well. btw I could care less about a dyed coat.what really matters
is what Donna states!!!
:) kathy

so what exactly do those letters mean SUCM? I looked and it doesn't say why they were DQ'd so unless you actually know the dog, you can't tell. Thanks for the info.

This post is not about bad toplines, bad knees, bad rears, etc. The point of starting this post was to find out if it is ethical to dye your dog so it can become a champion and be a good representative of the breed. We should all be breeding for sound dogs. It is very difficult to get everything in one package.
I guess what bothers me is that the YT standard does focus too much on color. I see some beautiful silver blue Yorkies and to me they are perfectly acceptable but not according to the standard. I did not start this post to get anyone upset but just to find out what the general opinion is among show breeders about dying dogs. I guess it is o.k. if you think you have a sound dog. LOL

I'm a bit confused...
as I understood from reading here
http://judgesl.com/YORKSHIRE%20TERRI...%20Terrier.htm


Disqualification:
Any solid color or combination of colors other than blue and tan as described above.
Any white markings other than a small white spot on the forechest that does not exceed
1 inch at its longest dimension.

***
Where can I read about only dark steel blue??

A link to YTCA....it mentions dark steel blue under "Colors"

http://www.ytca.org/frame_index2.html

Thank you!
But I'm still confused...
Isn't it being "light steel" is NOT the reason to be SUCM?
***
"Any solid color or combination of colors other than blue and tan "
***

Just because it's light steel doesn't mean the dog should be disqualified...it's still steel! (Although dark steel is preferable)