Winston's bile acid test results are back
 

Well...the vet called, and his test results are, Pre 1.9 and Post 27.2. She's consulting with a specialist, but I don't think his numbers are terribly high. Hope to know more tomorrow.
The way I understand it is...if the post is >100, it would indicate liver shunt, am I right? She hasn't told me anything about changing his diet, yet...So I'll wait and see. I am still considering taking him to another vet, just wanted this test result back first.
Wanted everybodys opinion, does this seem like nothing to be worried about, liver wise, I mean...Still have to get that dreaded insulin level test, but he has to have a low blood sugar to get it...and I hope he never does that again. I just want to know what I'm dealing with...and can't seem to find the answer.
I'd like to know what some of your babies bile acid test numbers were, and they're diagnosis' and treatment. Thanks!!!

I have heard anything above 25 could be MVD but geesh only 27...sound okay to me and over 100 is possible shunt? I think I heard that too...either way I am glad the #'s are in the lower range !!!!! :D

oopppss I forgot to give you Diggy's #'s like you asked. He only fasted for like 7-8 hours due to hypo...and he was 1.1 pounds and having seizures. He was 5 pre and 7 post. I plan to test again at 1 year old when he has reached his full size.

Now with winston pre # only a 1.9 why was diggys a 5??? Now ya got me wondering again....lol

Winston
 

Kathy,

I don't know anything about liver shunt but I am glad that Winston's numbers are low. I am sending prayers and get well thoughts to Winston.


Jay

:)

Oh gosh, Kathy, I hope they can fine what is causing Winston's problems...
Typically, if the results are under 100 but above the normal range, then it could indicate MVD...It may be a mild case of MVD with those numbers.. Anything over 100 typically points to a liver shunt.

So what do they do for a mild case of MVD, change in diet? And would this cause his sugars to go so low that he has seizures? I kind of don't think this is the answer, but I'll wait and see what the vet comes up with. Thanks for your informational response!!!

I really don't know if it's MVD, but if it is, they usually put the dog on a lower protein diet. With numbers like that, probably something like Natural Balance Vegetarian or Avoderm Vegetarian...Maybe Solid Gold Holistique Blendz. Something that is around 18-21% protein that has no red meat. It sounds like Winston has something else other than this going on. Those foods are actually good for healthy dogs too, so either way, it would be okay. I mean, it's possible that he has a mild case of MVD, but it just seems like there's another underlying issue. I really pray that the specialist will have some answers for you.

I can tribute nothing to the conversation except sending Winston a wish for good health and for you, a hug through this thread because even though Sophie's illness was different, the fear of the unknown is tremendous.

Take care and sending warm thoughts. -Deborah

Bile Acid Test - Dee Dee
 

My little girl results were pre 3 and post 74 first time and 52 second but no signs of liver shunt so put her on low protein diet salmon and potato by prescription hills as she has allergies and the vegetarian may not be good for her allergies

i heard if less than 100 usually mvd and u can just do low protein diet

I opted against liver scan and ultra sound as no symptoms

supplements recommended by vet and holistic vet is milk thistle and sam-e for liver issues - i can give you holistic vet number to order as she has the small doses for dogs as hard to find

liver shunt
 

my dog dukes had less then a 100 and he had a liver shunt

Cali had 2 Bike acid tests first was pre 1 and after 92 second was 1 pre and 37 or something close to that and she had the ultrasound whoch showed nothing and the liver biopsy that showed very mild MVD with no treatment necessary. I do try to keep her protein intake on the lower side. Treats especially can have high protein counts. Cali hasn;t had any probems since she was 9 months old but seems much quieter and slower than she should for her age.

Did Duke have any symptoms?

symtoms
 

duke had seizures

Hi Kathy, I wanted you to know I'm praying for Winston. I sent you a PM. Keep us updated.

Thanks for the responses...The vet called today and said the specialist she consulted went over all Winston's history, test results and said the bile acid test was insignificant...recommended no change in his diet...
So I guess I'm back to square one...no answer...lots of questions.
She did suggest putting him on an anti-seizure medication, but I still am not convinced that it will help...If it is indeed his glucose levels falling...will that help?
I do have a phone number/name/address of a vet my groomer suggested to take him to for another opinion...will be making a phone call, to see about getting an appointment with her, It's DVM Nancy Hayes in Peoria, Il. sounds promising.
I did call another vet here, and asked about the Insulin-Glucose-Ratio test...they said Winston did not have to be hypoglycemic at the time of tests..Just fasting, then they administer a glucose solution and repeat the level every hour for 4 hours, to see how his insulin responds to glucose...He has recorded low glucose levels, but the insulin levels were never checked at the same time...how frustrating...Poor little guy went nearly 24 hours with nothing to eat...and his glucose failed to drop below 60...which she told me was necessary to run the test, so no test.
Keep the responses coming, I am taking notes, I really do want to find out what causes his "seizures"...Thanks a million everyone...Winston says thanks too!!!

Oh one more thing...Does anyone know anything about "Insulinoma"...that's what the vet originally suspected...very serious from what I've read. But she has to be able to run the inulin level test to diagnose it...Still wondering...

Thinking of you this evening. -Deborah

Wow I would get a second opinion but i would find an internal medicine doctor as they are a little more advanced - as we have a hospital called vmsg which is like emergency vets on animal planet - they saved my dexter and were really knowledgable

I have family in pekin and peoria :) my mom is from there

i hope everything turns out ok. liver shunt is aweful

Hey everybody...Winston seems to be doing just fine...no low blood sugar's or seizures since May 27th...and counting...I am hoping that he never does that again.
I will be getting that second opinion. But in the mean time, I called my vet today and told her I didn't want to start anti-seizure medication until I had a firm diagnosis of epilepsy. If it is his glucose falling, and the reason why it falls hasn't been determined yet, how can Phenobarb or Potassium Bromide help. Any more suggestions, any body?

I don't know about the seizure meds, but I am so frustrated for you and Winston having to go through all of this and still not concrete answer. I guess that's good AND bad. No good news but no bad news either. I always feel like I can handle things a little better if I know exactly what's going on. (control freak) Poor baby had to go that long without eating and couldn't have the test. Give him a kiss from me and the boys. In the meantime, so glad he continues to be asymptomatic. Sounds like your headed in a new, and hopefully more informative direction. Good luck, you know you and your sweet boy are always in my thoughts and prayers.

Kathy, Scruffy & I are keeping you & Winston in our Prayers.
:angelyork :angelyork :angelyork :angelyork :angelyork
:ghug:

Aw Kathy! I only just found this thread about your little Winston's test results. So sorry Hon for what you are going through with him. I wish I could help, but know nothing about Liver Shunt. How scary for you, not being able to get a definitive diagnosis. I can only offer you my support and a great big hug,
Lauren:bighug:

Hey everybody...Just a quick update, Saturday Winston had another episode, same as always, gave him Nutrical and he comes out of it. Of course the vet was on vacation...so she wasn't available to run the insulin level test. Made the big step and scheduled an appointment to see another vet in Peoria...next Monday (July 2nd) was the first available opening...so I took it. Will bring copies of all the test results he's had so far, and see what she suggest. I have a thought about this...about the same time he started having these problems...he also became terrified of thunder storms. Seems like he gets so worked up during a storm that he doesn't rest at all...will constantly pace, pant and shake. Then the next day...bang...he collapses.
Does this make any sense to any of you? Maybe he just consumes too much energy during a storm, that even though he eats the next day it's not enough...to build up his reserve of glucose. I have mentioned this to the vet, and she said many of her epileptic dogs have seizures because of storms...barometric pressure. Hmmmm...I'm always thinking, trying to figure this out. We'll see what happens with the 2nd opinion. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers, Winston says he woofs you guys!!!

interesting as dexter freaks like this when air purification system snaps from large particle in the air and when the smoke detector goes off as the battery is low - he pants, shakes and wants me to hold him until the sound stops - he gets anxious like this in the car as well and then throws up in the car. It could be the anxiety - maybe the vet can give you something when this occurs to calm him down as I can just turn off air purifier or pull the battery on smoke detector but a thunderstorm is different.

we have friends that have a jack russel who takes something during thunderstorms in washington dc as she gets too anxious and they are worried about her having a heart attack or something.

I know it freaks me out when dexter gets like that and it happened this morning too :( so i hated to leave him as he was gulping down water due to his heavy panting

Hi, Kathy and Winston. Charlie and his Momma are sending Winston a big hug. Kathy, your theory sound plausible to me and barometric pressure affects my joints.

I will be on vacation from July 3-7, but will log on to find out how his visit was with the new doctor. Sweet little guy and can't imagine what that must be like for you, Kathy. I just hate when they aren't well and become so worried.

Take care, Deborah

Hmmm...That's very interesting! I can't wait to see what this new vet says. I'm still praying for you and Winston.

we Love you wemple
 

Hi Kathy & Winston,
Hope you can get some answers from the new Vet.
Scruffy & I are still praying for ya'll:ghug: :getwell: :goodluck:

Thanks everyone...we're going to bed now...and no storms in the forecast, so maybe that means tomorrow will be a good day. Good Night!!!