Vets and kickbacks
 

It honestly bothers me every time people on here insist that vets get kickbacks from Hills dog food company. I work as a vet tech. I've worked in numerous hospitals, been to seminars held by hills and other dog food companies, and i know many many vets. In my years as a tech i have NEVER seen or heard from a vet that got kickbacks from hills (this goes for vets i've met at semiars that i didn't work for as well). This is a rumor just to appease people who hate how vets promote science diet. Some vets will promote science diet because it is the store bought form of food made by hills. Vets purchase presciption diet and prescribe it because there aren't too many other companies that make prescription foods, and the food that the other companies do make aren't as good from a medical standpoint for the ailments the pet has. Its true a lot of vets do not get a good education in nutrition at school. Its just a portion of the HUGE amount of knowledge the must learn at school. Nutrition is just a part of everything else. Sure they're are pet nutritionalists just like their are people nutritionalists but they are just starting to get popular because of the demand for them now-a-days.

i think people have to understand that us yorkie owners on this site are just a small portion of the dog having world. We spoil our pets ridiculously and want only the best for them. However there are people out there that cannot afford the best or do not think of their dogs the way we do. In this instance science diet is better then alpo, purina, friskies, old roy, etc.

it just really irks me because its kinda like people are doubting or bashing my field of work. Not everything that goes wrong or that you don't like is the vets fault.

I'm sorry. I like science diet but I have a hard time keeping weight on my dogs with it.

Don't be offended... It's just like how people think all insurance people are blood sucking, money grubbing jerks (I've been in insurance for a few years and we're NOT all like that!)

I asked my vet one time why a lot of vets push SD... She said it's because that's who they probably received their nutritional training from (I think Purina and Iams/Eukanuba do some training too). They've more or less been brainwashed to think that that particular brand of food is the best.... They can recommend SD, fine, but how many of us have had a vet tell them the food we're feeding isn't good enough when really it's probably one of the better commercial diets out there?! I've had a couple different vets tout SD as the perfect, cure all food that's great for any dog, when all you need to do is spend a little time doing some independent research to discover otherwise.

The way I understand it, Hills provides a lot of funding to the AVMA (you said you've been to seminars sponsored by them). You can't deny that a partnership wouldn't be beneficial to both organizations... Hills provides funding, in turn the AVMA's vets sell SD.... Your normal DVM at a private, small animal practice might not directly receive any kind of bonus, but someone is making money.....

My vet sells Hill's but only the prescription diet which is what I have to use now, the U/D formula. He also carries a few other prescription foods but he felt that the U/D formula is best for my dog at the moment. He didn't PUSH the diet food on me as he also suggested I can continue using Life's Abundance and Merrick's wet food but I'd also have to supplement with Urecit K tablets 2X a day and there are side effects from that too. I'd rather treat Ralphie with food rather than pills.

In fact I expressed concern about using the Hill's food and the vet said that there is an 80% chance of stones recurring IF I use my own food so the choice was mine.

I'm sure not most people would never give a second thought to using the Prescription Diet or question its ingredients, other than select pet owners on a forum like this. My niece is also using the prescription food for her Silkie for the past 2 years and basically laughed at me when I told her I thought the food was pure garbage. She said, "Where do you get your information from? Stop reading the Internet!" The doctor kind of said the same thing to me. In fact, I myself have a weird skin ailment on my hands and the dermatologist said to stop reading into the Internet or I'll scare myself to death, which basically I have done already.

I just hope my dog lives a happy and healthy long life and I'm doing the best I can for his medical condition. I don't want him to ever undergo surgery again.

One more thing: My friend's daughter is studying veterinary medicine right now and said the one of the best foods is SD! And she has 3 healthy dogs with very long lives to prove it.

Science diet is one of the worst dog foods made. The Doctors don't get "kick-backs", but instead they get set up pretty darn good with practice. I know..............I have 3 friends who are Vets.

you bring up a very good point about the internet. A lot of people read the internet and all this information from other 'regular' people about their opinions on many different things. There are alot of sites of there that promote or discourage people from using products. its hard to know what is good and what is bad. My vet would tell the clients to stop reading that crap on the internet too unless it's based on professional opinion. Its a very hard topic to research because people are just going to say that the vet who writes an article that supports Hill is getting some kind of kick back from them.

I think dog nutrition is an up and coming specialty now that more and more people are starting to pay attention to what they feed their dogs. Alot of what we think is right may very well be proven wrong. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years.

Vet school is in my future. i was thinking of going into behavior but now maybe i'll look into nutrition.

Well, I had Ralphie's urine tested today for PH...he was consistently way too acidic (5.0) and the idea of using the U/D diet was to try and get him to be more neutralized - his PH should range between 6.50 to 7.5. Above that, it's too alkaline and is a cause of struvite crystals and stones. Too acidic causes the calcium oxalate stones, which is what he had.

I cannot knock the Hills food just yet as this is the first time he has ever tested in the normal range (6.75 to 7.0). Now it remains to be seen if he continues to do well. I guess it's Hills for the time being. It's very low protein which concerns me, but possibly all that wonderful so-called healthy organic holistic food had just waaayy too much protein content and stone-forming ingredients for MY dog, not everyone's.

My vet knows my concerns and is willing to make me a happier dog mommy as he will do anything to please me. He has NOT forced the Hills stuff on me at all but he did forewarn me that stones have a much higher percentage of returning if I don't heed precaution with the diet. Only a fool would risk their dog's health after hearing that. And risking another surgery because of my stubbornness in following advice is not a smart move. I'm no vet and I have to use my own judgment when reading the Internet....for my own health too! Sadly, I have lost months of sleep from Internet nightmares over my own health issues.

S/D is a really good food for the problme your dog has. I've seen many dogs do wonderful on this and not have any set backs. good luck!

I feed all of mine Science Diet. They are healthy and have beautiful coats, good stools. There blood and urine tests always come back in the normal range too. My Vet said he wished all his patients were as healthy as mine. I'm not about to change now.

thanks for posting in favor of science diet. its a good middle ground food that's affordable. Lots of dogs live long lives just eating SD and they never have a health problem, they're coats are shiney and beautiful, and full of spunk!

I don't know about the kickbacks, but I do have to say that everything in my vets office is labeled with a Science Diet plaque...from the tv to the fridge where the meds are kept. And that just always made me wonder...

Thanks for your positive input. I plan to keep him healthy for whatever it takes. I place my trust in my vet.

wow, i've never seen that before anywhere i've worked. i wonder if it also has to do with location and the population of people and pets.

when it comes to prescription food i think hills has the best. purina and eukanuba have some prescription foods too but in most cases hills works better.

my neice is a veterinarian. But she just finished 6 years of school and been a full fledge vet for about a year or little over. She is actually my nephews wife but ive known her since she was about 16. I would use her for my vet but she lives a long way from me, plus the vet I did use finished vet school with her but he went to work for another vet for full time work this year and one thing I like about the vet i use that he was in with is he is a lot more experienced. hes been doing this for 16 years so i would trust him over a new vet anyway most likely. my vet and the one my neice went to graduated with were together so actually I had used them both. none of them try to tell me what kind of food is best. I actually asked the older vet and he said he did not recommend certain foods for certain dogs but he usually just fed his gravy train and had never had a problem with his. My sister feeds her schnauzer gravy train, he eats it great and he has no problems with it. i've had my dogs on so many kind already and now they dont like any of it, dont seem like over a day or so. they love any i put downt the first time or two then its like, we're tired of that, now I read other night that the more you change their food the pickier they become. LOL,,,, so boy did i mess up. But I love my vet.

i've never heard of gravy train. what is it??

i've read that about switching food but i don't think its true. I figure the more foods you feed your pet the more foods it will adapt to eating so if there was ever a problem like running out of food or having to stay at the vets they won't starve when offered something idfferent. i also think it helps with preventing diarrhea and upset stomach. the more different foods they are used to the less change they will get upset tummies when given something they are not used too. morgan's been on a couple different foods and she get different 'snacks' to eat as well. she's never had diarrhea (knock on wood)

With all the problems Gizmo has had with Pancreatitis and HGE in his lifetime, Hill's i/d has been his saving grace. I would never be without a couple of cans at any given time. Makes no difference to me who makes what from it, it does it's job and serves it's purpose when needed. That's all that matters to me. ;)

I wholeheartedly agree! After getting Ralphie's urine culture back yesterday....no blood, no crystals, no signs of anything. Whatever...Hill's U/D is doing its job and my dog is happy and healthy. I'm not sure about Gizmo but Ralphie has to stay on this for long term, maybe forever.

THey do pretty well around these parts. $60,000-$90,000 depending on the clinic etc. Nice profession and we have tons of them here.

Gravy Train, isnt that at the grocery store?

Yes, Giz was on it for 4 or 5 months and got to where he just wouldn't eat it anymore. It is kinda bland. I read up on the Chickn Soup and slowly made the change, he's been on it for a couple of months with no problems. Sometimes I make him his own chicken and rice. He is the spoiled one.

My Parents Mini Schnauzer had to be put on SD prescription diet because of her health. Our Vet did tell her that it isn't the best food but, with Heidi's illnesses this is what she has to eat. I don't think it has much nutritional value. My Mom gets the Dog Journal, SD is not rated a very good food. I think with all of "us" trying to eat healthier we want this for our furbabies as well. I know A LOT of people that feed their dogs store bought food...There's alot of junk in it but, this is what they choose...maybe because it's cheaper? All I know is I don't want my girls eating by-products which most of your store bought food has in it...just search what by-products are...you might think differently about store bought food...Not sure if SD has by-products in it.

Edie is on Hill's T/D for dental health. I know it works, because when we did not use it for a while, the plaque buildup was bad. Since gum disease can affect major organs like the heart, I think good dental health is one of the best things you can do to prolong your Yorkie's healthy life.

I had a conversation with my vet about nutrition after reading that Hill's might not be good. I always take everything I read on the internet with a grain of salt, and wasn't sure what to believe. He tells me that this food is good, complete, nutrition, and in fact, this food provides a more balanced diet than most people in the world get. I forget everthing he said, but it was a compelling arguement to stay on it. I am glad I did. Edie has no health problems, no allergies, etc. And she loves it.

T/D is a good food for a dental diet. Just be cautious with it becuase it is higher in fat. I don't know if your vet mentioned that to you. Keep an eye on his weight. T/D is also good when given as treats instead of a meal. it probably doesn't work 100% as well as a full meal of it, but it works pretty good as treats especially when you get the big dog kind with the bigger kibble. it gives them something to work on.

I have had my multiple vets turn their noses up at what I'm feeding (Canidae) and recommend their foods - SD & Eukanuba. Not in a "oh by the way we sell this for your convenience" way but a "your food sucks" kind of way. Someone who doesn't know better would totally be persuaded by them.

You don't need opinions about who makes money on SD. You don't even need to read the internet. All you need to read is the ingredients. And for whoever says not everyone can afford fancy foods... Canidae is CHEAPER than SD & Eukanuba.

In my case, I need the Prescription Diet food to control stones and if that food does the job of keeping his stones away and keeping him healthy, then I can't ask for more. Yes, I would have loved to keep him on the Life's Abundance, the Merrick, the Wysong, the Natural Balance, and anything else I raised Ralphie on, but obviously they were NOT good choices for my dog....too much protein and calcium.

I too questioned the quality of the Hills food with my vet and all he said is it's doing what it has to do and you don't ever want to put him under stone surgery again. I even went as far as calling the Hills tech line and questioned the ingredients. I told the rep I did not see anything that looked like it was fit for humans! He told me that the chicken absolutely IS human grade but it has to be listed as a by-product because it is not 100% white meat. He assured me that it does not contain feathers and other ugly stuff and I should not believe what I read on the Internet.

I'm not a vet and I do know how to read ingredients very well as all I use for my family is natural and certified organic and holistic food as much as possible...Whole Foods Markets gets my paycheck plus;) ..... and it urks me that I cannot do that any longer for Ralphie.

For now, I am going to stop driving myself crazy reading the ills of SD and hope that at some point I might be able to put Ralphie back to his old diet. It just doesn't seem like that will ever happen. I fear seeing that blood again and if I cause that to happen because of my stupidity and stubborness, I will not forgive myself.

you are doing the right thing by keeping him on S/D. S/D will help prevent stones and he'll live a long and healthy life. :D i hope you don't have another episode with the stones.

Ralphie and I thank you for your vote of confidence in SD and his health!:thumbup:

good food/bad food
 

There is NO perfect pet food.the more pet owners get involved in the well being of their pets the more pet companys are going to taylor their products to meet our standards.Truth is there are many pet owners that feed their pets the cheapest they can find and many who feed only the best at the current fad. you will always here varying stories of these dogs living long lives on good and bad foods.Bottom line is I think that if you have a sick dog already(genetics) and give them bad food it will bring out the promblem that you were going to see anyway and the healthy ones stay healthy eating substandard and excellent quality food.do the best you can,read up and let god handle the rest.nuroticism never helped any of us.JMO!

I agree that there is no perfect food. But why should anyone feed something known to have preservatives, by-products, and less wholesome ingredients when there are better similarly priced and increasingly easy to find products out there?