Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4714946)

Apparently vets get one class about nutrition and that is it. Amazing, isn't it...? They come out of school knowing almost nothing, relatively. It's kinda shocking...and most def disappointing.

Yes, RC/Hills/Iams etc are huge financial sponsors of vet schools and student programs. They conduct themselves just like how big pharma does with medical students...same thing, same shady practices in terms of paying for stuff and ingratiating themselves when they are students. We had the same thing in nursing school...as did our friends who were in medical school, PT school, dental...you name it.

So yeah, I agree that it's very hard to trust a vet who promotes RC or Hills, for me.

Originally Posted by Britster (Post 4715939)

Yep. I went to a vet who told me I needed to go on to a "quality food" like Iams, Purina or Science Diet and get off of the grain-free food that I was feeding. This was our old vet because naturally I did not go back. There was no discussion whatsoever. He just shut down my questions. He wasn't trying to *sell* me the food for his own profit, just telling me bottom line, it's what I should be feeding. I'm not even saying SD, Purina, etc, are terrible to feed. Sometimes they can be great choices depending on the pet. I even feed Purina Beyond sometimes when I need food quickly, etc. But to blindly state these foods are superior is what irks me.

My theory is just that it's what "works" (but isn't necessarily what's best). They don't have time to research every food out there (understandably) so they go with the brands that they are taught about in school and have a fairly decent track record. If they go and recommend... say, Orijen, to a client and then the dog gets sick, the owner is going to go and blame the vet.

My current vet is absolutely amazing. They are a bit of both -- they do some holistic and conventional. They believe combing the two can be extremely helpful in our pets. They look at the body as a whole to determine the underlying issues that are causing the problems and eliminate symptoms before throwing them on an RX food or medications that MAY not be needed (of course, sometimes they are, and they gladly will do what is best for your pet).

My vet will have a personal conversation with me regarding Jackson and take the time to listen to any concerns I may have or questions that are reasonable (I wouldn't sit there and take up all of her time lol) but she never makes me feel like a burden like vets in the past have. I no longer feel forced into anything (i.e. prior vets would just be like "oh he needs x, y, z, for sure, so I'm going to go and grab the vaccines and get them ready" and then I would be kind of sitting there like ... uhh, okay (I'm not a confrontational person so I would just be like, okay). And if I tried to be like "oh, what's this one for?" they kind of blow me off and just say he needs it. I went through... 3 vets prior to finding the perfect one because they were all pushy with one thing or another.

I do think vets get a bad rep on the internet and it's not deserved. Majority of vets are not in it for the money or greedy people. And I don't think the majority of them mean any harm. I believe it to be a combination of not wanting to change, not keeping up with latest research, maybe ignorance or looking at things one-sided or with blinders on.

I've chilled out a lot on my views. I used to be very anti-SD, RC, Purina, IAMS, you name it. *I* was one of those with my blinders on, lol, and couldn't see past an ingredient list on the back of a bag when it's about sooo much more than that and I do realize that now. Do I tend to lean towards the more 'natural' 'holistic' (I don't even like those words lol) approach? Yeah, probably. But I also appreciate those who maybe don't agree with me. I've gotten to the point where I'm very... feed your dog what you're comfortable feeding your dog. As long as it's in good shape, not dying from it, and has good stools and solid bloodwork... I'd say you're probably doing alright. :)

Originally Posted by canana (Post 4716908)

I'm the exact same if anyone tries to 'sell' me one brand over another and telling me it's the best. It sounds like you have an amazing vet! I looked into holistic+conventional vets in my area, they're generally quite a bit more expensive. Did you find the same in your area? I guess maybe it's the training or the people they're targeting.

Your last comment, is spot on! :)

Originally Posted by Britster (Post 4717346)

Honestly, nope! I thought they would be a lot more expensive too. But I compared to all our previous vet bills (I keep them all in a folder, lol) and in certain things it's even a bit less expensive (very small differences- like the prior vet's exam fee was $64... new (better one IMO) is $56). The area I live in seems to be expensive in general for vet care.

Originally Posted by Doodlebug (Post 4728640)

This was really interesting reading. I was just in two pet shops where the sales person was telling me how good a raw diet was. I asked a lot of questions. Both shops highly recommended Primal frozen so I ended up buying a small bag of frozen chicken "scoops" which are little pieces. I decided to try using them as a treat at first rather than going for a full transition. They loved them. My husband was very much against raw but i just wanted to try it because they had me convinced that it is the healthiest diet. Both shops told me that this food is processed so that there is guaranteed absolutely NO salmonella or Listeria in them. I was wondering if this claim is true.

Today I put a few pieces in their food bowls and they gobbled them up. But I was worried that I would have to practically sterilize the bowls because they had raw food in them. I washed them with soap and hot water and used paper towels to wash and dry the bowls so I could throw them away and not contaminate anything. Am I being too paranoid about cleaning the bowls?

They are eating Acana dry food and weruva canned so I think their diet is pretty good. After reading this thread I don't know if I am ready to go raw. I'm still thinking about what to do.

Originally Posted by Doodlebug (Post 4728640)

This was really interesting reading. I was just in two pet shops where the sales person was telling me how good a raw diet was. I asked a lot of questions. Both shops highly recommended Primal frozen so I ended up buying a small bag of frozen chicken "scoops" which are little pieces. I decided to try using them as a treat at first rather than going for a full transition. They loved them. My husband was very much against raw but i just wanted to try it because they had me convinced that it is the healthiest diet. Both shops told me that this food is processed so that there is guaranteed absolutely NO salmonella or Listeria in them. I was wondering if this claim is true.

Today I put a few pieces in their food bowls and they gobbled them up. But I was worried that I would have to practically sterilize the bowls because they had raw food in them. I washed them with soap and hot water and used paper towels to wash and dry the bowls so I could throw them away and not contaminate anything. Am I being too paranoid about cleaning the bowls?

They are eating Acana dry food and weruva canned so I think their diet is pretty good. After reading this thread I don't know if I am ready to go raw. I'm still thinking about what to do.

Originally Posted by Teegy (Post 4728717)

Doodlebug, I give the boys lamb or pork necks and pork ribs. I freeze them and let them a one rib for dinner. The necks are frozen too I let them eat a meals worth and stick it back in the freezer. These are all fear mongering statements to try and convince dog owners that raw is bad, but buy our dried corn nuggets sprayed with tasty fats.
When I am cooking a steak for myself I leave my steak out for 6 hours to make sure it comes to room temp because I eat it blue and don't want the inside freezing cold. I'm not dead yet. You use the same common sense handling your dogs rawmeal as you would your own. I kiss my dogs after they've had their dinner with no fear or worry. Again not dead yet.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4728713)

In class we leanered a few issues with raw. After the dog has eaten it and they go to get water they can contaminate the water. Also any raw meat at room temp can grow bacteria. It is also not suggested to raw feed if you have older people or anyone with a compromised immune system. I prefer home cooking to raw. On the medical side in my opinion I see issues that could happen.

Originally Posted by Doodlebug (Post 4728787)

I see your point too. After the pups ate the little raw pieces I didn’t let them kiss me on the face. I washed my hands after they licked them. Also the post about the nursing homes (?) not letting raw fed dogs visit gave me something to think about. We have a family member who is a paraplegic in a nursing home and I had hoped some day they would be able to visit him. They are too scared right now though.

We went to another pet shop today (Bentleys) and that girl was saying the same thing about the huge benefits of raw. She gave me a free bag of the Primal scoop pieces. So I am going to let them eat them as treats and still give it more thought before I switch to raw. My husband gave me "the look" and said "I don't want them eating raw food".

Here is a BIG problem that I have. I used to read Dr. Fox's column in the newspaper for a long time. He went on and on about how horrible processed kibble is for your dogs. He claimed that dogs are getting sick with cancer and other diseases that are KILLING them from eating processed kibble. Then when the love of my life Daisy got cancer at age 12 and died, I never stopped blaming myself for feeding her the deadly food. It was not tainted, recalled food, but it was kibble. I decided to never get another dog because they don't deserve to die early with a horribly painful disease because of my poor choices (feeding processed kibble). I questioned my fitness to be a good doggie parent. Now I have my two Morkie pups. I am letting Dr. Fox's words about the killer kibble fade from my thoughts now, but i want to do the best thing possible for my pups food wise.

Dr. Fox does have recipes for cooking your own food but i am not a person who likes to cook. But i will consider it if i had a recipe that i knew FOR SURE was complete and balanced and had everything they needed in it. Somehow I think that the kibble helps keep their teeth clean but i dont know if that is true.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4728916)

There is nothing wrong with kibble thousands of dogs thrive on it and live very long lives. I don't think it's the cause of lots of our dogs illnesses it certainly isn't killing them unless they have a certain illness and are not on the right food. Don't beat yourself up. We all do the best we can. I think homecooking is the best but I can't do it because my older girl has IBD and she never took to home cooking. Balanceit.com has recipes by a vet nutritionist and the supplements you can buy. I would check it out.

Originally Posted by Doodlebug (Post 4729022)

Thanks Taylor. As you can see I was having a "moment" there when I wrote my last post. I know the kibble isnt all bad. Im going to check out the link, thanks.

Originally Posted by Doodlebug (Post 4730394)

We took the pups to the vet today for their yearly checkup. Thankfully they appear to be doing great. We discussed raw feeding with our vet and she is not a fan of raw feeding. She said to let her know if we raw feed bc she will need to wear gloves when she handles them. She just finished cancer treatments and I don't know if that is the reason for the gloves but I guess we will let it go. That pretty much made up my mind since I really like my vet and don't want her to feel compromised when she handles my pups. Poor little things were scared anyway and I don't think the vet wearing gloves would make them feel any more comfortable. I do appreciate everyone's opinions both for and against raw feeding,

Originally Posted by BayleighL (Post 4730568)

I am glad that you found your answer - and have a vet you really like. Our little pup was also very scared the first few times at the vet. We worked hard at doing a lot of handling at home to get her used to ear, mouth, tail and paw handling. We tried a variety of things at the vet - the one thing that worked was taking her dog bed and putting it on the exam table so she didn't slip and slide so much. That REALLY helped. We don't have to take it anymore. She is much calmer and compliant. It took about a year of vet visits to accomplish.


Good luck with year 2. It's sooooo much fun! :aimeeyork:aimeeyork

Originally Posted by 2018YorkieMama (Post 4735722)

I just watched this documentary. Sorry about the thread I started about the film. I should have searched first.

I spoke to the breeder whom I will be purchasing our puppy from. She let me know that she cooks for her dogs and she will be sending me home with a meal plan and recipes. I know I will need to add supplements as well. I'm not worried because the breeder has plenty of experience with Yorkies; she is a 3rd generation breeder after all. ;) The breeder is not a fan of the raw diet because she is concerned about parasites.

Before I watched Pet Fooled, I scoffed at the idea of cooking for a dog but I found the documentary to be eye opening. I don't think that all kibble is terrible for dogs but home cooked meals which are nutritionally balanced are best. That's just my personal opinion. YMMV.

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4735758)

You need recipes from a vet nutritionist and they can also tell you what supplements to use. Before using any recipe even those from the breeder you need to have them looked at by a nutritionist first. Homecooking is great but making sure you do it righ is extreme important.

Originally Posted by 2018YorkieMama (Post 4735775)

Since the breeder has been successfully raising Yorkies for 20 years, I'm not overly concerned about not having enough nutrients in the food.
I'll probably speak to my vet about the home cooked diet though.

Originally Posted by 2018YorkieMama (Post 4735775)

Since the breeder has been successfully raising Yorkies for 20 years, I'm not overly concerned about not having enough nutrients in the food.
I'll probably speak to my vet about the home cooked diet though.