Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4560271)

The ACVN has a list of all of the veterinary nutritionists in the US on this page: Diplomate Directory American College of Veterinary Nutrition

If you click on "more information," you can find out where they are and what they are doing.

If you follow a dog all of the way until old age on a feeding trial, I wonder whether you can wait for them to die of natural causes and then perform an autopsy to gather the final data?

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky (Post 4560293)

I have tried to keep out of this. My only post was aimed at humor in the hope that the sharks here would see it and STOP before it got nasty.
An innocent post informing YT members of one source of diet info was ridiculed and made to feel stupid for posting such a link.
I am an average Yorkie mom who started off knowing little about the issues and diet needs of my dog. When I first came here I thought it was for people like me, not the self elected experts on all things Yorkie.
In my experience, when a dog is sick the average person takes him or her to the vet, is diagnosed and treated...then given meds and a prescription diet for the disease in question, if needed. No vet has ever told me to get a boarded nutritionist, and I would like to know how many here have received that advice from the vet.
The owner of the publication FDA is a dentist.......so what?? How many here are certified nutritionists? This man is well educated and able to research and give his opinions for others to read and digest and use as they may. Has he been given a chance to defend his reputation??
The scientists here should know that berating another professional is unethical without the person being given a chance to defend the accusations.
As we all know, dog food is a very personal issue and we all choose the food we deem best for our dogs. Most of us have to seek diet info from vets and our research, however imperfect is may be.
This thread has become a slug fest and the bait was laid at the beginning, knowing some would bite!
The poor OP was probably devastated by the mean and attacking responses, she thought she was being helpful....as she was to many I am sure.
This is a rant I wish I did not have to write, but I am not an uneducated idiot and I feel my views are as valid as other non experts here.
Please try and understand many here do not have the time, facilities and experience to spend hours researching literature and writing extensive analyses and comments. We are dog moms and dads who just want the best for our dogs, and we live on ground level not in ivory towers.
Now the sharks have more chum to attack, and I will take whatever comes.
Thank you.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky (Post 4560293)

I have tried to keep out of this. My only post was aimed at humor in the hope that the sharks here would see it and STOP before it got nasty.
An innocent post informing YT members of one source of diet info was ridiculed and made to feel stupid for posting such a link.
I am an average Yorkie mom who started off knowing little about the issues and diet needs of my dog. When I first came here I thought it was for people like me, not the self elected experts on all things Yorkie.
In my experience, when a dog is sick the average person takes him or her to the vet, is diagnosed and treated...then given meds and a prescription diet for the disease in question, if needed. No vet has ever told me to get a boarded nutritionist, and I would like to know how many here have received that advice from the vet.
The owner of the publication FDA is a dentist.......so what?? How many here are certified nutritionists? This man is well educated and able to research and give his opinions for others to read and digest and use as they may. Has he been given a chance to defend his reputation??
The scientists here should know that berating another professional is unethical without the person being given a chance to defend the accusations.
As we all know, dog food is a very personal issue and we all choose the food we deem best for our dogs. Most of us have to seek diet info from vets and our research, however imperfect is may be.
This thread has become a slug fest and the bait was laid at the beginning, knowing some would bite!
The poor OP was probably devastated by the mean and attacking responses, she thought she was being helpful....as she was to many I am sure.
This is a rant I wish I did not have to write, but I am not an uneducated idiot and I feel my views are as valid as other non experts here.
Please try and understand many here do not have the time, facilities and experience to spend hours researching literature and writing extensive analyses and comments. We are dog moms and dads who just want the best for our dogs, and we live on ground level not in ivory towers.
Now the sharks have more chum to attack, and I will take whatever comes.
Thank you.

Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 4560309)

I think is informative to let people know that the DFA isn't more than an entrepreneur! That's an important fact people need to know. His opinions are not a source of good advice in my view. No ivory tower here. I just don't understand why debate about this guy leads to the conclusions that the dissenters are "sharks" or live in ivory towers.

As for vets referring to boarded specialists, they don't usually do it. This is why I like to tell people about it, so they can ask their vets and get a referral if they need it or just go on their own.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4560320)

I agree....and honestly I don't know why people get so tight in the backside at the fact that some of us don't value his opinion. So what? No one is telling them not to....we are merely pointing out that there is other information about nutrition out there.

The last time I went on his website, I got tangled up in a high pressure sales page. I posted it here in a thread and since then it seems to have disappeared. I am quite sure he sees these threads. I was honestly astounded at it....there was a timer on the page and you were told over and over that you better sign up quickly for the best price for his special list of foods, whatever he called it.. He had a timer there and it was ticking away while in his deep voice he warned you that you were almost out of time to get this great "deal". Sounded like a carnival barker to me and totally turned me off. I found out later that the price is the same at all times...there was no "deal" at all. :thumbdown Sorry it offends people, but he does not impress me at. all. I have sat on my hands mostly in this thread because I don't wish to be suspended or removed from the health and diet section, but I don't care for the attack tonight that I feel was SO unwarranted. We have all tried to make light and leave it all go. No one attacked anyone. This is just what happens...all designed to shut people up. :thumbdown Tiring.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky (Post 4560293)

I have tried to keep out of this. My only post was aimed at humor in the hope that the sharks here would see it and STOP before it got nasty.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky (Post 4560293)

An innocent post informing YT members of one source of diet info was ridiculed and made to feel stupid for posting such a link.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky (Post 4560293)

I am an average Yorkie mom who started off knowing little about the issues and diet needs of my dog. When I first came here I thought it was for people like me, not the self elected experts on all things Yorkie.
In my experience, when a dog is sick the average person takes him or her to the vet, is diagnosed and treated...then given meds and a prescription diet for the disease in question, if needed. No vet has ever told me to get a boarded nutritionist, and I would like to know how many here have received that advice from the vet.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky (Post 4560293)

The owner of the publication FDA is a dentist.......so what?? How many here are certified nutritionists? This man is well educated and able to research and give his opinions for others to read and digest and use as they may. Has he been given a chance to defend his reputation??
The scientists here should know that berating another professional is unethical without the person being given a chance to defend the accusations.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky (Post 4560293)

As we all know, dog food is a very personal issue and we all choose the food we deem best for our dogs. Most of us have to seek diet info from vets and our research, however imperfect is may be.
This thread has become a slug fest and the bait was laid at the beginning, knowing some would bite!
The poor OP was probably devastated by the mean and attacking responses, she thought she was being helpful....as she was to many I am sure.
This is a rant I wish I did not have to write, but I am not an uneducated idiot and I feel my views are as valid as other non experts here.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky (Post 4560293)

Please try and understand many here do not have the time, facilities and experience to spend hours researching literature and writing extensive analyses and comments. We are dog moms and dads who just want the best for our dogs, and we live on ground level not in ivory towers.
Now the sharks have more chum to attack, and I will take whatever comes.
Thank you.

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1 (Post 4560299)

That would certainly be ONE option!!....I know poor food will show up rather quickly in the dogs appearance, vitality, mental and emotional condition, etc.....even stools....junk in, junk out. Kidney function, liver issues, and cardiac issues will follow relatively soon.....clinical feeding trials are realistic and dogs clearly can not stay on a feeding trial the entire life of the dog. Valid clinical feeding trials do last several years, as opposed to several days or weeks or even months. I would much rather these trials be done in a clinical research setting, than throwing dog food out on the general public, then after several years a cluster of pet owners have dogs dying with liver and kidney failure, or allergy issues, skin conditions, poor coats, etc. I do not want to feed any dog food where the manufacturer is using me and my pets as their clinical trial subjects! Let them do the valid research and the feeding trials, then when proven to do and be what it claims to do and be, I will then be happy use it!

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4560216)

As to the bolded statement in the post above, I can only say this....
Pretty flawed thinking imho. I am willing to pay more for real experts (ie vet nutritionists) and feeding trials, NOT fancy marketing such as the BB law suit has uncovered. I stopped buying a dog food for that reason...they had all the fancy words on their website and the "desired" ingredients, but ignored my requests for names and qualifications of the "experts" they claimed had formulated the diets. Just because a company has the ingredients that guy says are more acceptable does not mean the quality control is there.

Originally Posted by MissSunni (Post 4560261)

You know what guys. I am sorry I posted that stupid link! I KNOW that there are a million different rankings by different ppl and sites. I actually posted this one because he started it as a consumer! He never claims to be an expert. Its left up to anyone who reads it to decipher it as they will. The fact that alot of you think he is claiming to be an expert shows you havent really read what he says, in my opinion.

Apparantly there are a number of experts on this forum.. I should have just posted...for the uneducated consumer..maybe heres a list you dummies can look at before you buy Alpo.

I am surprised that this thread has bascially been hijacked and laughed at...but, thats fine. Have your fun, but its not at my expense because I will still have my opinions and thoughts and I will continue to read whatever I find interesting, but I will NOT post a link here again, thats for sure. I'll leave it to all the certified experts. My feelings are not hurt. I'm just shaking my head at the tone of this whole thread. Thanks to the few who tried to be rational and chose not to make me look and feel like an idiot.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4560346)

Very true. That's why I would think that feeding trials would be stopped at the first sign of deteriorating health. I believe that's what they do for the all-too-brief AAFCO feeding trials. I think a long term life long study would be more appropriate in terms of trying to prove something more subtle, such as differences in feeding natural vs. synthetic vitamins, or nutritionally complete kibble vs. canned vs. raw vs. home cooked foods.

BTW, this thread has me remembering back to the German Shepherd we had when I was a child. She died of massive organ failure at the age of 10 years and bled out of every orifice, and now I have to wonder whether she was poisoned by a toxic batch of dog food.

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky (Post 4560293)

I have tried to keep out of this. My only post was aimed at humor in the hope that the sharks here would see it and STOP before it got nasty.
An innocent post informing YT members of one source of diet info was ridiculed and made to feel stupid for posting such a link.
I am an average Yorkie mom who started off knowing little about the issues and diet needs of my dog. When I first came here I thought it was for people like me, not the self elected experts on all things Yorkie.
In my experience, when a dog is sick the average person takes him or her to the vet, is diagnosed and treated...then given meds and a prescription diet for the disease in question, if needed. No vet has ever told me to get a boarded nutritionist, and I would like to know how many here have received that advice from the vet.
The owner of the publication FDA is a dentist.......so what?? How many here are certified nutritionists? This man is well educated and able to research and give his opinions for others to read and digest and use as they may. Has he been given a chance to defend his reputation??
The scientists here should know that berating another professional is unethical without the person being given a chance to defend the accusations.
As we all know, dog food is a very personal issue and we all choose the food we deem best for our dogs. Most of us have to seek diet info from vets and our research, however imperfect is may be.
This thread has become a slug fest and the bait was laid at the beginning, knowing some would bite!
The poor OP was probably devastated by the mean and attacking responses, she thought she was being helpful....as she was to many I am sure.
This is a rant I wish I did not have to write, but I am not an uneducated idiot and I feel my views are as valid as other non experts here.
Please try and understand many here do not have the time, facilities and experience to spend hours researching literature and writing extensive analyses and comments. We are dog moms and dads who just want the best for our dogs, and we live on ground level not in ivory towers.
Now the sharks have more chum to attack, and I will take whatever comes.
Thank you.

Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 4560309)

I think is informative to let people know that the DFA isn't more than an entrepreneur! That's an important fact people need to know. His opinions are not a source of good advice in my view. No ivory tower here. I just don't understand why debate about this guy leads to the conclusions that the dissenters are "sharks" or live in ivory towers.

As for vets referring to boarded specialists, they don't usually do it. This is why I like to tell people about it, so they can ask their vets and get a referral if they need it or just go on their own.

Originally Posted by pstinard (Post 4560275)

Just found this article on her website. It's short, but quite good (and relevant): https://weethnutrition.wordpress.com...-you-pet-food/