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Oh, I totally agree which is why I don't start threads advising people what or what not to feed....even with a might or maybe in there. If we were to turn the tables here and start a thread about raw feeding and why you should not feed it I can just see the uproar now. I don't feed raw, but I don't tell anyone that they "maybe" should not unless they try to shove it down my throat as the only way to feed. What I will continue to do is to back reputable dog food companies especially those that I use for my pups. Giving reasons why I feed these foods is not the same thing as saying it is what everyone else should feed! Not sure why people are getting that from this thread.

This thread was not, imho, started to get input about different foods; but it has given opinions that were directly against what the OP had posted. That IS telling both sides. :) Seems that when we don't agree with an OP and we use valid sources, we are viewed as not being open to other ways of feeding. I personally use a variety of foods/methods so I DO know there are many ways to feed. I home cook, use RX foods, use canned foods and use kibble. And I use Hill's, Purina and Royal Canin. They are companies that have earned my trust. I don't personally care what anyone feeds their pups ... and only get vocal when there is a suggestion that I am poisoning my pups. Such rhetoric is highly offensive to me.

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Thank you Wylie's Mom, well said!

:thumbup: When I posted about my experience with BB in the other thread, I was just posting an experience I had. The food might be great but I think their quality control might be lacking based on my experience. QC was something that I never took into consideration before this. I just thought I would post my experience with BB so that others might want to take it into consideration when choosing what to feed their yorkies.

Exactly. Sharing experiences is always good. This is how we all learn. To start a thread that basically shuts a bunch of people down is not informative imho. When you say things like, "don't get upset, these are not my words" or "my pup fell off a bed and cannot walk but I don't want you to tell me to go to a vet" , you are already saying that what you are posting is controversial and you know it and don't care.

This is absolutely true. If we started a thread about the perils of raw food, we'd be stoned with words! I am not going to stop encouraging people to use valid sources of information. I'm not going to sit back while people keep bashing the only companies actually doing any research. The irony is that I am not even a 100% of the time dog food user! I use about 2% of kibble in an otherwise home cooked diet setup. Yet I feel strongly that people be correctly informed about this topic. I don't understand why this continually creates ridiculous drama. To those people who have a problem with my disagreement with Dog food advisor or lay people like this blogger, please know that I have a well reasoned and I believe correct basis to my view that they are not valid sources. Stop arguing back and exercising soft censorship tactics. My opinion is my opinion and you don't have to be defensive about your choices that are something else. Just let it be. No I don't agree with your choice of dog food. I don't even like dog food. But what I like is science, research, training and credentials. Those things are levels of comfort that I believe necessary to product development and quality control. I wish all dog food companies would step up in this area and I could alter my opinion. But I can't because they haven't. Be mad at them not us.

I agree. And the reasons given for rejecting the foods in the original post are either not valid (menadione, grapeseed oil, egg powder, gluten), or need to be taken in the context of quality control (unnamed sources of animal protein) or known allergies that your particular dog has. BTW, I used to love Blue Buffalo, but when I got a bag with NO lifesource bits in it whatsoever, I could see that their quality control left something to be desired. One bag without lifesource bits didn't hurt Bella, but my understanding is that the bags that contain too many lifesource bits can be toxic.

I saw the OP several days back and decided to pass on comment for all the reasons that you listed above. I'm not surprised that it did not receive a warm full of love reception. Everyone on YT has a right to an opinion without being told they are rude, opinionated or whatever the buzz word of the week might be. There are plenty of Yorkie Groups over on FB which allow NOTHING except God Bless and warm fuzzy love posts. That is not what YT is about and those same people will come here looking for good solid answers to their questions. We have never been held to that type of scrutiny and just do not get why this seems to always be an ongoing concern of some members.

I did a little digging into the source of information for the dog food list at the beginning of this thread and posted my findings in another thread on Yorkietalk (http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...-few-more.html). I'll quote my findings here. I'm NOT here to bash the OP, I'm just providing information:

After doing a little digging, I found out that the Healthy-K9.com | "Experts in keeping your dog living healthier & happier for longer" website I mention above is affiliated with Andrew Lewis, the author of Dog Food Secrets and Dog Food Conspiracy. Here is a quote from the Dog Food Conspiracy website Increase the lifespan of your dog by up to 134%

Many world-famous Doctors of Veterinary Medicine and published Dog Care Experts universally agree any dog that eats commercial dog food is at a much higher risk of dying prematurely and by the time symptoms are noticeable, it's often too late to prevent an agonizing death except by lethal injection.

WARNING: If you continue to feed your dog commercial dog food, death-by-disease is practically guaranteed! You must find an alternative and it doesn't have to mean spending more money.

There are a lot of scare tactics here, and not a lot of evidence, so I'll just leave it at that. And yes, the website is selling a product.

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How many times do we hear people that choose to NOT feed commercial dog food, to instead home cook, or feed raw, start a discussion and in the discussion, usually within the first 5 sentences, are quick to not only push THEIR view that what THEY are doing is the best, the only compassionate, caring, guilt free method of providing for their dog, and that this HAS to be the very best way because a dentist (that has NO vet nutritional education other than what he has picked up along the way) says so and has a "list" for everyone to follow......and if you are feeding a commercial dog food, you are feeding "crap"....and when those of us that clearly "hate" our dogs and feed them 'crap', try to give OUR side of the debate, we are being "hateful, unreasonable, nasty, ill tempered, instigating trouble makers", with "NO CLASS", that deliberately send the proponents of everything but commercial food feeders from a list of "approved" dog food, fleeing, crying, wringing their hands in dispair, complaining of being attacked and emotionally abused, etc....

Once again, "WE" are the unreasonable ones that chase people away from this forum.....so no, there is actually no room for BOTH sides to be told. No opinions can be expressed or debated or explaned if it concerns a commerical dog food that has not been "approved" and is NOT on "The List" by the dentist or even considered by many of the other people that do not feed commercial dog food. People need to stop trying to make others feel they are uncaring because we choose a different way to feed our dogs, and then berrating us for trying to point out inaccurate, one sided, opinionated information that can mislead uninformed people that can not distinguish opinion from proven FACTS.....if ANY information is inaccurate, on EITHER side, and is pushed as fact and truth, THAT is doing harm!

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Thank you for this!!! I had tried to do this very thing and could not get it done with my computer skills! Here again, people with agendas, following the money, pushing scare tactics on people that do not or can not tell the difference between fact and opinion!!! THIS is what angers me...not people that choose to feed their dog whatever they feel is best for them....but to insuinate that feeding a commercial dog food is a death sentence for your pet and you are incompetent to even consider that as an alternative....this is wrong and inaccurate, especially for a multitude of the companies listed on "The List" of approved food......"approved" by who???????....

I did a little more searching to see if I could find the credentials of Andrew Lewis, the person behind the Healthy-K9.com website and Dog Food Secrets, and could find NOTHING except what he states on one of his web pages. He seems to be a lay person who spoke with his vet when his dog Noble got sick, and his vet told him that Noble's dog food was killing him. No degree in veterinary nutrition, or any other veterinary science, as far as I can tell.

I guess maybe I was thinking there was going to be SOMETHING that could perhaps look like this person had SOME kind of qualifications (rather than HIS OPINION) and my failure to find absolutely NOTHING, I just automatically presumed was my own ineffective computer skills was why nothing was showing up......apparently, nothing was showing up because there was indeed NOTHING that could show up!

I am not offering an opinion... I posted that "I" thought the list of potentially bad foods was interesting...and the reasoning behind the list worth looking into. Which I did. And I assumed since they were of interest to me.. they would be to others as well. It obviously has been. And some good things came of it...

To the poster that shared about Blue Buffalo...Many thanks. Quality control is something to be VERY concerned about and your experience brought up something that is indeed a problem.

To the poster who shared about the Hills Everyay formula- many thanks also.

To the poster who offered a link to a nutritionist who will answer questions free of charge... many thanks!

I never bashed Royal Canin ( Both my previous dog was fed it for years and my current puppy is still on it) or Hills ( which I fed my last baby when she needed the KD formula) and I am also interested in looking into the everyday formula for my current baby once she is no longer a puppy.

To the poster who inferred that a "new puppy owner" shouldn't be given respect until they had a 12 year old dog to show for it. THEN to share their experience. Well..if that was aimed at me then here you go.

My last Yorkie, who was eating Royal Canin, developed kidney problems that were caught when she was 7 ( not RC fault) and my vet and I battled it for 5 years ( with Hills K/D) until it claimed her 2 months ago. But 12 years apparently is an old age for a 3 pound dog-so I guess by many of the YT posters standards- I did pretty good especially given her health problems. But I still wanted more time. 50 years wouldn't have been enough because I loved her. But through working with my 2 vets and an animal nutritionist through that process I learned a LOT about kidney disease. Much of that came from stumbling on information that made me curious...and reading up on it...then asking my vet about it. I am an intelligent person with an inquiring mind and am always looking to expand my knowledge. My vet and I had several good conversations due to the fact that I was finding specific information about what my dog was dealing with and I had way more time to dig around then he did with a full time vet practice. I also spent lots of time with the Canine ophthalmologist as Chanel went blind due to retinal degeneration related to the kidney disease. Then cataracts, luxated lens... yeah lots of " Situations" and I know way too much about all the meds eye problems can require (Very expensive human drops too I might add)

I spend 1000's of dollars on her but the point I was trying to make with my comment about people who can't go to the vet is that there are many people who own dogs that love them and in many cases don't have the financial resources to be able to spend that kind of money. They come to YT seeking advice because of all the experienced dog owners on this site.. YOUR "non expert" but experienced opinions may be all these owners can afford. and it is better than nothing..which is what they end up getting if all any of you do is say " Go see a vet" when these people can't afford to do so. if you don't offer them something they will go elsewhere and end up on a quack site with terrible misinformation or at the very least worse than they could have received from you. And they probably STILL won't go see a vet.

Is it wrong to own a dog when you can't afford vet care?...In my opinion yes! But does it happen...ALL THE TIME! But then again... if they rescued a dog from being put down- maybe a poor but loving owner is better than no life at all. But that is a whole new thread.


And by the way the Cindy poster was blasted because the pet store owner Had a dog in the hunt" to make a profit on selling dog food. ... my " Vet" sells "Hills" and it is the only food he sells. Does that give him a dog in the hunt as one poster said? You also need a prescription for hills which you have to get from a "vet" so they are making the money on the food AND on the appt needed to obtain the prescription. Does that make it any less or more valid than the owner of the pet store who is special ordering a food for a client who is only making the profit on a bag of food? Does that mean vets' will offer unbiased opinions when they benefit from the sale of Hills two ways?? Thats opening a big bag of worms. BOTH the pet store owner and the vets want the same result...YOU TO HAVE A HEALTHY DOG. And they will BOTH profit from it. that is why they are both in the industry to catering to pet owners. The lack of a degree in veterinary science doesn't mean the store owner is any less interested in your dogs health as was inferred. And having one doesn't mean your vet is immune from wanting make a buck. Most vets do way better financially than most pet supply owners. Just saying....

Also need to say when Hills started making my girl sick( again not Hills fault- it was the kidney disease) My vet printed out recipes from the internet..and told me sites to look at to try to figure out a diet that met her kidney needs and that was tempting enough to get her to eat. I then had to run the diets I came up with by the nutritionist. But One of those sites was healthy k-9 as mentioned before. The author has a whole section specifically on health issues dogs normally have and several Kidney specific menus and treats. Other than adding a tiny piece of Tums for calcium because my little one wouldn't eat the " Ground egg shells" recommended in the kidney diets my vet provided, and adding amphogel and tinnic soluton to supplement..they both agreed the kidney recipes Andrew Lewis offered were a good option for Chanel. She did eat and lived another 3 years with kidney disease after the first 2 years of being on the hills KD.

So if the Barney poster was inferring that I am a new pup owner which having a 12 year old dog would give credibility to...been there done that. I have also fostered dogs. I may not know it all but I am not ignorant. I am also always open to new information that may make me revise my opinions. This article was simply thrown out there as "possibly interesting information" Not the Doggy Nutritional Bible. My comment was not aimed at you specifically. But to posters in general that tend to go for blood. ..OFTEN. It makes posters who only have the goal of trying to bring up information feel attacked.

I cannot even respond to some of this any more. Vets don't make a living selling pet food. The food they sell is RX food. They are licensed professionals who make a living doctoring pets....to minimize that is simply ridiculous imho. The foods the vets sell are RX foods.....not the same foods you find in pet stores. They are selling those foods because they are good for the pups with different conditions. You are talking apples and oranges now imo.


It is just mind boggling how people think.

This thread is exhausting. No one has bullied anyone..no one has blasted anyone.

Some of you want to just post anything you please and feel that no one should provide valid information that what you say is just not so.

Thank you Pstinard, Yorkiemom1, 107barney for your very well informed posts on this topic.
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And one final note about people seeking veterinary care on this site. Not going to happen even if you think it should happen. If they go to a quack site, that is on them...we cannot save them all. We also offer ways for them to afford the care. We have saved a lot of pups on this site with our advice and you are so wrong to pass judgement like you are right now. You might not like the rules here or what we do, but coming in like a gang buster is not going to make us do/say what you want. Sort of wasting your time on that one.

Here are the rules for the Sick and Injured Forum...please note that people are advised to seek professional help for emergencies. THAT is what is in the best interest of the pups.

This forum is for talk about current sick and injured Yorkies as well as current emergencies only. Examples of emergencies may be your Yorkie swallowing something like chocolate, or they are pooping out blood. Something like your Yorkie itching or your Yorkie sleeping too much is NOT an emergency. You may only post one thread per Yorkie per incident. If you post in here regarding the situation, do NOT post it in any other forum. Please do a search first for any medical condition as you may find the answer already posted within YT. Also, please update your thread with updates so all members can find out how your Yorkie is doing.

ANY OFF-TOPIC THREADS WILL BE DELETED.

Requests for donations or medical bills are not allowed. Posts with any mention of a request for donations will be deleted. You may of course donate to whomever and whatever you choose, however please take into consideration how long a person has been a member at YorkieTalk, as there are people out there willing to do pathetic things in order to make a buck.

Threads which do not talk about a current sick and injured Yorkie or emergency will be deleted. Hopefully members can get quick responses to emergency situations by having this forum. Do NOT take advantage of your fellow members care and concern.

If this forum is not popular or useful, we will close it and move all the posts to other forums.

If you have an emergency, we strongly recommend you immediately go to your nearest vet or emergency animal hospital or if possible, call your vet. Any posts in this section is just advice only and not any veterinarian or professional advice. We are not responsible for any advice you receive in this forum. Your best choice in an emergency is the nearest vet or emergency animal hospital.

Please be considerate and post updates of your Yorkie in your Emergency thread. A lot of members here do care about you and your Yorkie, and want to know if their advice or support helped at all. Thank you.

The only poster "going for blood" is you. Why else would you have badmouthed Barney?

Also, I would be concerned if my vet approved a recipe from the internet for a dog w/ kidney disease. I would hope they would have some sources of their own...

I also am concerned with your comment that there are some posters who are out for blood. I find this offensive. There is no one on this thread that is out for blood. Are you?

It seems to me that the health professionals can't even figure out what is healthy for us humans let alone our dogs. There is so much more to consider about a dogs diet that can effect it's health. Dogs are exposed to all kinds of chemicals and toxins throughout their lifetime. Even some drinking water can cause health issues. When a dog gets sick and dies suddenly it is often hard to figure out what really caused the problem unless an autopsy is done. Often it could be a combination of things. My sister-in-law used to feed her little poodle crappy food and table scraps and the poodle lived around 23 years.

I know dog food gets recalled but so does people food. Look what happened to Blue Bell ice cream. I will still buy Blue Bell. I think the best thing we can all do is just share our experiences. Personally I like reading about what others feed and recommend. I do feel that dog food reviews are helpful but just because one dog food works well for one dog does not mean that it will work for all dogs.

Thank you, Phil, for your information on this person/topic. There are those of us who value the time you put into these things.

I am sorry this got passed over. The only thing I can say is that feeding her canned food is not going to harm her. Some people think kibble will help their teeth, but that is not so.

You might want to check out the following website: www.petdiets.com
There is a lot of information on that site...check out the FAQs...you might find helpful info.

You also could start your own thread here on YT in the Health and Diet section. Lots of members will respond to you! :)

Yes, thanks Phil. Not bashing the OP but I was trying to point out that on that website there were no credentials listed at all. I find YT members are pretty good at researching what their babies need. That is what I really really like about it here! I have learned so much!

Oh just never mind......... good luck

Vets do not make lots of money off of prescription food and I really wish people would stop saying that untruth. My dog is on prescription Royal Canin I do not have to make an appoint every time I need a new bag and she doesn't get massive amounts of money for it.

Of course they don't. They barely make like $1 on it. Plus, my vets will always script out whatever I want. I like to order from chewy so they dump my stuff at the door. My vet makes zero off those orders. This concept that vets are raking in millions selling Rx dog food is absolutely laughable. Vets carry this Rx food as a convenience to their customers, not because they think they are golden nuggets toward a retirement in Maui. Seriously.

It's just insane how people believe that nonsense. When I was having problems with Pebbles food I was the one that suggested the RC Hypoallergenic food to my vet. He ordered it for me to try because he didn't carry it at the time. But he did give me an RX and I went to buy a small bag at Petsmart. Now THEY have a huge markup unlike my vet. He now stocks it for me because I can get it cheaper through him!

Still do not know how to do the thumbs up but had to jump in here to agree with you. I completely value all the time Phil puts into this research and sharing with all of us in ways we can understand. Very helpful.

Because Callie is picky about the size of her pieces I have to use the small breed Hypoallergenic Royal Canin and my vet doesn't carry that one in stock but specially orders it for me. I tried one of the super holistic foods in limited ingredient using duck thinking that Callie's issues could have been related to food when I was waiting to get into the vet before she told us it was IBD last summer and although it helped slightly it still was not even close to helping as much as the prescription food.

When you click QUOTE, a text box appears. Put the cursor where you want it....as if you are typing your message. To the right of the text box you will see a bunch of little smilies. Click on one and it will put something like:
: ) in that box. When you post it, a smilie will appear.

Hope this helps!

If you can't see the smilie list to right of the box where you are composing your reply, I think you can type ": thumbup :" with no quotes and no spaces between the colons and the word thumbup and it will be made into :thumbup: when you post your message. Let me try... :thumbup:. Yes, that works for me. By the way, thanks!