Found out my pup has Patellar Luxation...what should I do? Breeder refuses to help!
 

Hi Guys,

I found out my 5 months old yorkie has patellar luxation on both knees. The vet I brought it to says its grade 2 and that I should talk to my breeder about possibly getting my greeder to cover surgery or getting the pup replaced. We've grown attached to him and don't really want him replaced, but we travel a lot and are very active and constantly taking long walks, and worried that this might cause roblems for our pup in the future.

I called the breeder and first she said its not part of her guarantee, but I told her than the paper says that you offer 1 year warranty...so then she turned over to saying that this is common with many/most yorkies and goes away or does not get worse. I then told her than if she was not willing to help with this that I would take her to court for this or that the fact that she guaranteed a dog that was going to be 2.5 lbs and ours is already 2.5 at 5 months (I guess i'll have to wait a bit until he goes over). She said that it was my fault that he is already 2.5 lbs as she told me to always leave his food out and not feed him only twice a day as they go into starvation mode and gain more weight...anyway, not sure how true this is, but it sound like she is just beating around the bush.

My main concern is my pups health. We bought him while we were on vacation in Florida and live 1500 miles away. She told me to bring him by and let her vet examine him. I don't mind taking a long road trip, but I have a feeling that when I get there, she will just have this paid off vet and they will refuse to help me and that will just get me more pissed.

What do you guys suggest I do? I need all your advice please and I need it ASAP

Thanks

Talk to your lawyer about this. If it is part of the contact and states there is a warranty over any congenial defects, then you have a case. This is a bad breeder to not stand behind her word and contract. However, NO breeder can guarantee size and she'd be a fool to inclose that on her contract. Get a lawyer and do it fast! Also, go to another vet in your town for a second opinion. Have both vets type out their findings. Do lots of researach on it where it states it's a genetic defect. Any and all correspondence needs to be done IN writing with return receipt certified mail. That way, you have proof that you've tried to make this right.

Yes, Yes, Yes- Please take Kims advice here and don't walk but run to a GOOD LAWYER and get everything documented and Vet checks in writing and don't even think about going 1500 miles down here to Florida, That is totally unnecessary. You needen't go to her Vet- that is like shooting yourself in the foot. Get your own vet opinions ( at least 2 ) and then let a lawyer contact her. I bet you get a different response from her then.

I don't know if it's allowed but if this is how this breeder handles her guarantees, can the name be posted on here so others are warned to stay away ? I am asking cause I am somewhat naive about the rules here on YT.

Yes, you can! :thumbup: You can warn other people about this breeder and what she has done. I've done it to 2 breeders that I've dealt with...but it would take SO long to find it. :rolleyes:

Lorraine
 

A 5 months old Yorkie at 2 1/2 lbs is still pretty small. I do hope you are leaving food and water down for him all the time especially as teething is going to be going on creating more stress. All my dogs and puppies have food and fresh water available to them all the time.
You aren't going to be going on long walks with such a tiny dog unless you are carrying him a good part of the way, he is too small for that amount of exercise.
As for patella luxations, you must be very careful and definitely seek more opinions. Many Vets do NOT know anything about them and love to say any small dog coming into the clinic has a knee problem when it isn't. You don't want surgery that isn't required. Observe him when he walks. If he isn't hiking up a hind leg every so many steps, he is likely fine.
In my opinion, I wouldn't be concerned that he is 2 1/2 lbs at 5 months. 2 1/2 lbs is too tiny for a full size Yorkie and you run the risk of a bunch of problems when they are that small. Yorkies are not meant to be that tiny and a lot of times are small due to health problems, genetic or congenital, including liver shunt, other liver/kidney problems, glandular problems, enzyme problems. If he is healthy and hasn't had hypoglycemia, be thankful.
I have two female pups that are undersized, one is 2 1/2 lbs one is 3 1/4 lbs at 8 months. I gave them free to friends of mine that have gotten a Yorkie from me in the last couple of years, live nearby so I can help them anytime they need it or take them back if necessary. They are aware of the needs and potential Vet bills that come with these little ones, although I have had Liver Shunt and blood testing done at my own expense and will be having them spayed at my own expense hopefully next month if my Vet feels they are ready. I do not breed for undersize but it happens in the best breeding program anyway.
Hope that helps a bit
Lorraine
Loriben Yorkies

His weight is the least of my concern, but I still feel cheated on that. All I want is that he is not 6 lbs or something. If he is 3.5-5lbs, thats ok with me.
We love him and he is the best pup we have ever been around. He is so calm that it almost worries me.... and he is so obediant. He does have heartworms, thats why I brought him in today and thats when she told me about the knees....she says heart and rest is perfectly fine. He is 85% potty trained on pads and would really would hate to give him back.

He always has water available to him except at night when he is in his crate. I fill his bowl with food twice daily.

Are there xrays you can take for pattelar luxation? This would be best proof of all.

Sorry, I think its tapeworms. Sorry I am new to the whole worm business. The vet gave us a white medication to give him once daily for a week

Lorraine
 

Your little guy sounds delightful and I doubt he will get to even 4 lbs if he is 2 1/2 at 5 months. I would guess somewhere between 3 and 4 lbs.
Unfortunately, it is the ligaments involved with a luxation so it doesn't show up on an xray. By examination the Vet determines if he/she can pop the knee or not and how tight that is to determine if there is a problem. It is not an exact thing and a Vet can actually hurt them if they don't know what they are doing.
The first YOrkie I ever got was a pet delightful little guy. The vet I took him to at the time said he had knee problems and would likely need surgery. He never did require surgery and got along just fine, never even missed a step with either rear leg. He could run play do everything just fine.
I do mobile pet grooming and many times I have various breeds of toy dogs and crosses on my grooming table. I can lift a hind leg and hear the knee popping all over the place but it is never a problem, just pops back in again. I would hazard a pretty safe guess a Vet would want to do surgery and say it was a problem. It wasn't and these dogs lived to grand old ages without ever needing it fixed.
If your dog hikes up either rear leg more and more from now to about a year of age, it could be a problem especially if he doesn't eventually put it down to use it in walking, Then you may require surgery on it or if he seems in pain with it. That however, could even occur a little older like 3 or 4 years of age.
Again, I would get a couple of opinions especially if you can find a Vet that is knowledgeable for sure about knees on these dogs.
Lorraine
Loriben Yorkies

I miscalulated...she is 4 months..not 5. So I guess from what I ready, he will most likely double his weight now....it really sux to be get screwed.

Her name is Julie Soutullo from Dixie Pups in Hallandale, FL and I just read other had issues with her. Its sad that Florida is still letting her screw people after so many complaints. I even spoke to one person, who sued her and won after her pup died of Giardia and breeder admitted to judge that she owes buyer a refund and since has not sent her a dime. Not sure what good suing will be if it will ust make me spend more money and get nothing back :(

I'm sorry to hear about your puppy, But if you didn't bring him in for his knees, what made the vet check for luxating patella?? Was it just a regular exam?? I know my vet checked my dogs knees during their regular exams too! Is your puppy having a problem walking? Limping? skipping a step? This is a #2:
Grade 2 luxations occur when there is occasional spontaneous lameness
but the patella returns to normal positioning easily enough that the dog
usually isn't pained much by it. This is typically the dog that
occasionally carries a rear leg for two or three steps on occasion but
then puts it back down and goes as if nothing was wrong.
I would get a second opinion on the Luxating Patelle, and go from there.
Good Luck let us know what you find out.

It sounds as though you are very concerned about you dogs weight, but as you were told before no one can guarantee weight..

I also found this on the web.. Look at the last line. If your puppy is sick this should help.
Veterinarians say that a one-pound dog would have died if someone had not hand-fed it for the last week.
The pup's new owner thought she bought a healthy pure- bred "Tea Cup Yorkie", but now believes it came from a Puppy Mill.
The puppy, Bella, is having a hard time breathing.
She can't eat on her own and needs to be in an incubator.
Krista Butler found Bella in the paper.
She says she bought her to save her life.
The seller, Julie Soutullo, owns a Hallandale Beach puppy store called "Dixie Pups."
The Department of Agriculture is investigating Soutullo after numerous complaints.
Soutullo says Bella was healthy when she was sold.
She told News 12 that she offered to take the dog back.
According to the Florida Puppy Lemon Law, Krista can give the dog back and get get a refund or a new dog.
She can also ask the seller to cover the vet bills up to the purchase price of the dog. :rolleyes:

Lorraine
 

For size approximation on a puppy, double the weight at 12 weeks, not 4 months. I am still sure if he is 2 1/2 lbs even at 4 months, he won't be much more than 3 -4 lbs at maturity.
Lorraine
Loriben Yorkies

Lorraine
 

After reading this post, this breeder is not a breeder but a broker. She has no idea what she getting, the kind of kennels they are coming from, and knows nothing about the parents or anything else of these puppies. This is the same scenario as a pet store selling puppies. She is making money from buying litters and selling the pups. The breeders she is dealing with know this is what is going on and providing her with litters of pups.
You might want to ask your Vet how old he or she thinks your pup is. It may not be the age you were told but impossible to prove really. Eruption of teeth can tell you a little bit but that can vary too in different lines etc.
Lorraine
Loriben Yorkies

I've become ultra paranoid with all the horrible stories. To the point where I am starting to think if the vet did her job right today. I brought him in because i notice the occasional drop on watery blood after some of his poops. I brought in a stool sample and she said he had worms...did not tell me which ones as i did not there were so many after I read here today. She gave me panacur and told me to give him 0.6ml for 5 days. I am wondering if she checked for Giardia....Is this part of the same test? After reading another post from someone's pup dying from it coming from the same breeder....I have become really paranoid. Also, the vet suggested that maybe my pup had mites because of little pimple on his body from scratching, but I honnestly think its from his new shampoo we are using since a week. Is mites and ear mites the same? Wouldn't they test this with a camera in the ear?

Do you guys suggest I bring my pup to another vet for another stool sample before anything? My pup seems healthy and eats well and is active. With giardia, would he be this way?

Returning a pup sounds like a very hard thing to do. I know I couldn't do it because of attachment, but I would also worry about what I was returning them to. Can you go through small claims court to get your money for vet bills reimbursed?
Good luck

My experience with Guardia was a long time ago, but the vets will still tell you if 1 pup in a litter has it, it is likely they all have it. It is very contagious among pets and can be transferred to people too. Your pup doesn't sound like the symptoms usually described for pups with it. They are usually very lethargic. I don't think it would hurt to find out for sure though.

Go here for information on Giardia: http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/gia.html

After reading all this I would not be surprised if the puppy is younger than you think. A lot of broker's will sell them really young to give the impression that they will be smaller adults. If he is really 4 months at 2.5 lbs he will probably be a pretty small adult. I would guess around 4 lbs. I know you think you want him to be a 2.5 lb adult but really 4-5 lbs is really small. I have an almost 6 pounder and she is really a teeny dog and sturdy enough to run and play and jump off the bed without breaking a leg.

If the health of the puppy does in fact turn out to be an issue and you need to sue her I would be more inclined to go the small claims route because you most likely won't collect any more than the purchase price of the puppy and an attorney will charge you more than that. You could end up with a bigger financial loss.

This is a very common problem in small dogs. Both of my yorkies have a grade 1. My vet told me the best thing for this would be to walk them up a hill or swim. Fortunately they love to swim in our pool in the summer. If u can build up the muscle around the knee, it will be to their advantage. I would hold off on the surgery unless u see them in real pain. As far as the breeder goes, is it worth the trip back there? You'll be stressed and so will the dog. Just report her and take care of your little one.

Wish I Saw This Forum Sooner
 

I definetly wish I found this forum sooner. I just recently purchased a small yorkie from her the week of March 4th a week later the dog died of parvo. She claims she will compensate us for the vet bills and the dog but after reading this and contacting others I've heard of whose dogs died from her I doubt this will happen. This woman needs to be stopped!

Do breeders guarantee against luxating patella? I thought guarantees were about life threatening issues. Luxating patella sounds like it is common and I thought that it was not only genetic but they could get it from environmental factors too like jumping off things and such :confused: I don't know much about it, I'm just curious...

This is absolutely horrible. I'm so sorry for what you are going through with your little one. I too think that you are going to have a small guy. Wyatt is 8 months old and 9 1/2 lbs. He was 2.5 lbs at 6 weeks. I would definitely go for a second opinion and see an attorney.

You would think that the authorities in FL would be able to put a stop to this, she is a horrible person. Maybe the local ASPCA or Humane Society could do something about this and put her out of business permanently.

Good Luck with your little one.

I think it is considered a genetic defect not sure though.

This woman needs to be stopped , but I could not return a pup to her no matter what! Sue her or put and ad in the papers telling as many people as possible what she is like ,but dont give her back your baby, what would she do with it poor little mite.

I agree, I don't know how any breeder can guarantee size.

Patellar subluxation can be hereditary but can also be caused by injury, especially if jumping down off the furniture on a regular basis. Also, some puppies that are raised in wire cages & don't walk on the floor or the ground can develop grade 1 or 2 patellar subluxation because they never get a chance to strengthen those ligaments (because of the wire).

http://www.porsha-distribution.com/p...ts.html#luxate

Most breeders will offer a vet health check before selling puppies, especially to someone who lives so far away. When puppies are shipped, the law requires an interstate health certificate done by a vet before they can ship a puppy, as this is required by law before shipping from state to state. Vets always check for patellar subluxation, heart murmurs, and other congenital defects before they will sign off on a vet health exams or an interstate health certificate.

Most of the time, grade 1 or 2 will not require surgery, but will heal up on it's own if injuries are not repetitive. I would be skeptical of any vet who talks about surgery with only a grade 1 or 2 luxation - because grade 1 or 2 often heals by itself. I have never heard of a vet doing patellar surgery unless it is a grade 3-4, which can become crippling. Discourage jumping down from the furniture, either lift your puppy up & down or build some "steps" out of cushions. You will be hard put to prove congenital versus injury as a cause of subluxation if she had a health exam done by a vet before you got your puppy. :(