Perhaps you do, but many people do not. I did not quote you...I simply shared information that might help others understand that salmonella is a risk in raw foods.

IDPiper, raw feeder here. Most studies done on the bad things about raw feeding are sponsored by kibble companies, all the ones I've seen anyway.
You will see a lot of mumbo and some jumbo about germs and salmonella and the danger to humans.
When you handle raw meat for yourself, you clean up right, so you do the same with your dog food. Dogs also don't have the issues with salmonella etc as we do as their stomach acid makeup differs from ours. My boys food is all kept in the freezer and served to them frozen, except the premade ground which is kept on their shelf in the fridge.
The many friends and associates of mine who have had issues in their dogs with allergies and with me pancreatitis, who have switched to raw feeding, couldn't be happier and I believe my dogs to be happier too. Eating raw weird shaped meat and bones (not weight bearing) stimulates their minds and they learn to hold the meat and chew, hence lovely clean teeth.
You are always going to run into conflicting issues when discussing raw feeding as I have personally discovered, especially when it exists that many folk are brand sensitive and loyal and believe everything their vets tell them. Not their fault or their vets as vets also have limited nutritional training provided by the dog food companies.
You can PM me any time you like

Yahoo Groups
great raw feeding group on yahoo

Hmmm seems strange that it's mumbo jumbo when most vets are against it and vet associations who have done research on it to are against it. Salmonella does to very much effect dogs many many get sick by the company's who have had recalls because of it. Letting them eat raw using there paws also is another thing they can spread many of the germs and bacteria where ever they step and touch which can not only harm them but people and children. Yes humans can wash there hands after messing with raw food but are dogs getting there face and hands washed with antibacterial soap every time they mess with it?

My vet published a book explaining the causes why animals get sick and how switching to a natural balanced diet and removing stresses actually helps to heal them. Kibble takes 14 to 24 hours for a dogs system to digest and often organs are working overtime to break it down. Whereas with an organic natural diet, the body processes it in 4 to 5 hours, absorbing much of it as nutrients and water and produce smaller, less stinky stools as their is less waste. Rotating protein sources allows for a good balanced diet. A good balanced diet leads to a good healthy immune system which can fight off parasites worms and infections much better than an animal with a challenged immune system that stressed.

It's incorrect to say that dogs do not get ill from Salmonella. Think about it; if dogs don't get Salmonella, why would dog food and treats be recalled when found to be contaminated with it?

Salmonella Infection in Dogs | petMD

Untitled Document

Salmonella Food Poisoning in Dogs


Overview of Salmonellosis: Salmonellosis: Merck Veterinary Manual

Like I mentioned Loved to Dream, a lot of these research results that I've seen against raw feeding were sponsored by large food conglomerates. Also the vet association don't want to see your dogs so completely healthy that you have no need for them. You'll notice that the recalls are mainly from the large companies that make processed foods.

:rolleyes:

That's it...a conspiracy. :confused: SMH

I really dis-like some of what goes on in these threads. My experience with kibble with my first male, I have shared before, he was fine up until about 11 months old, then wow diarrehea, I switched to two diff other kibble brands again top name and same thing, okay for two weeks then liquid diarrehea. In desperation I changed to raw. And it has worked for 6+ years for him. If as sometimes happen when I travel and can't get to raw or homecooked, and have to feed 2lbs of kibble a day, now on the third or fourth day he has diarrehea of the very loose kind. Obviously something disagreed with him in the kibble, that is not present in the raw and or home cooked meals.

When Zoey got sick, I had to switch fully to home made, as the vet hospitals were going to institute some pretty stringent handling requirements of her. When Zoey got sick again with cancer I maintained the home cooked as I knew her immune system was compromised and I did not want to stress it further. Neither sickness had one lick of anything to do with feeding raw/or home cooked.

And yes home cooked or raw with bearded breeds I wash down the beard. It is just a lot cleaner and keeps their beards mat free. Home cooked or raw their stainless steel dishes are washed in very very hot water and soap twice per day - it only takes a few minutes. And for me personally I worry more about the paws outside especially in summer with free pesticide use, and in winter when the salt trucks are out, then if they chew a few raw bones a week. I wash paws a lot in summer (unless we are swimming that day), and daily in winter especially when the bloody salt trucks are out. Their retrieve toys are always washed in very hot soapy water every day that we use them.

Personally I love the links LadyJane and 107Barney provides, and the links of Teegy and other members.

Let us remember to recognize that we are as passionately dedicated to the health and well-being of our pets as every poster on this thread is.

For me it is quite obvious the number of kibble recalls every year. If you can home cook to a vet nutriontists diet plan, and or do a Raw Balanced Diet, why ever would you buy kibble? On the other hand there are dogs that do alright on these kibble meals, and some of the prescription diets I understand are very very effective for certain diseases.

Gawd knows these Yorkies only eat what 1/2 to 3/4 cup a day, how hard can it be to home cook? Try feeding two dogs who eat 4lbs a day, and then understand that it is a labour of gladly given love to feed my beasties a well balanced home cooked diet.

Again, if feeding a raw or BARF diet works for your dog then great. But it's simply false to say that raw is categorically safer to feed because of the recalls of dry food. Since January of this year, there have been 5 recalls of commercially prepared raw foods. 2 from Bravo, 1 from Nature's Instinct, 1 from Steve's Real Food and 1 of The Honest Kitchen.

Nature's Variety Issues Voluntarily Recall of One Batch of Instinct® Raw Organic Chicken Formula for Dogs & Cats Due to Possible Health Risk

The Honest Kitchen Voluntarily Recalls Limited Lots Of Verve, ZealAnd Thrive Products Due To Possible Health Risk

Bravo! Recalls 2 lb Tubes of Chicken Blend-Raw Frozen Food Diet for Dogs and Cats (One Lot Code) Because of Possible Salmonella Health Risk

Bravo! Issues a Voluntary Recall for Three Raw Frozen Food Diet for Dogs and Cats Because of Possible Salmonella Health Risk

Steve?s Real Food Recalls Turducken Canine Recipe Patties Because of Posssible Health Risk


As for the number of dogs that become sick from a true BARF diet or home cooking numbers, those won't ever be known since there is no centralized tracking method for it at this time.

The bottom line is that what ever you choose to feed, you still have to be vigilant.

Gemy, I'm really fortunate that there are some great local places to get my raw and although pricier than kibble, the vet costs balance out. There is a wonderful woman in Whitby named Lori Dzingala, she's a breeder of Leonbergers and runs a raw feeding business. I came home with 24 pounds of mixed meats and it cost me $60. My friend who is new at raw feeding came along and got an abundance of great information from her. There is also a wonderful dialogue that ensues with customers who talk about previous health issues with their animals and just like you, they and I see the benefits of it.
No it's not a conspiracy, hahahaha, it's big business this pet food industry and animal welfare. Like I always say, GE can probably make you a lightbulb that will last a lifetime, but why would they, there's no money in that. The places I source my meat from are human grade. My Teegy and Tufty have no plaque or Tartar on their teeth and on a kibble diet brushing daily, Teegy had terrible build up happening on his back teeth. What I do have to deal with now that I didn't have before is Teegy whining at me because Tufty is so much slower at eating and when Teegy is done he watches him and moans at me.

I wonder how much impact it had on the ice cream industry and if people stopped eating Ice cream, that's very scary, hopefully in the years since they have come up with a better means of transporting the mix.

Wow...

For me it is obvious that the increase in recalls is directly related to the increase in "holistic companies" that seem to pop up overnight with their marketing ploys about no corn, no soy, blah blah blah... They make money by putting fear in the general pet population....not by producing foods that are safe for our pets.

I have been feeding kibble for more years than I wish to count and have never had a sick pup nor have I had to take a food back because it was recalled. Of course, I feed a food that has the dreaded ingredients. *shrug*
My pups are in good health with the exception of the ones who have issues that have nothing to do with food.

That made me laugh out loud seriously not all vets are out for your money and its a shame you feel that way considering how long they have to go to school....... Also if dogs weren't effected by salmonella then they would have the recalls and dogs wouldn't be getting sick by the recalled rood and treats :rolleyes:

:thumbup: I totally agree with this and there will continue to be recalls until we get some regulations on these company's who just want to get in on the new pet fad.

Really??? I don't recall Purina, Eukanuba or Iams being a holistic companies.

Wow, this thread has gotten out of hand and almost downright mean!! I'm all for a good debate but when it starts getting mean it is no longer a productive thread and should be closed!! JMO!

Oh, so you can voice your opinions, but if mine are opposite yours, then I am mean? :confused::confused::confused: I did not say that ALL companies who have recalls are holistic...I said that I believe there is a direct correlation in the amount of companies that pop up like they do and have no real interest in safety. The companies that spend the money to have a vet nutritionist on staff and who do feeding trials IMHO are less likely to have recalls or have had less. I don't understand how you take that as mean. It's an opinion....MY opinion. That's all.

Piper. See thyself.

I wasn't referring to you directly. If you go back and read some of the comments they can be taken as catty. I know that you don't care for me as we seem to have very opposite views on things and I feel like you seek out comments that I make. Just like the freezing comment...you didn't quote me but why would you bring it up except for the fact that I mentioned freezing because at that point had not come into play until my comment.

I can guarantee you with 100% honestly that I am by no means being mean to anyone. It is hard to convey emotions in written text and people read it the way they perceive that person. I too am guilty of that but I will usually apologize if I have taken something wrong.

I am an almost 52 year old woman and absolutely hate little girl drama!! I love to debate based on my views and I love to hear others views also, as long as it doesn't get catty!! I respect your views as you should respect mine.

107barney...this is also directed at you, too. Too bad you all didn't know me in real life because I'm sure you would find me quite the opposite of what you think of me here. ;)

This thread has digressed from being beneficial to just being a battle of one side vs the other side and neither side is going to change their feelings.

You quoted me, so I assumed you were referring to me. :)

Just because people do not agree with your views does not mean that they don't like you or respect your views. You just have to understand that people are going to post what they believe and that has nothing whatsoever to do with personal feelings.

I don't know you so how could I dislike you?

There is really no reason for food threads such as this to become confrontational or emotional. If you're one of the people who is feeling hot about this subject, then step away until you cool down.

As far as salmonella, it's pretty simple. Every pathogen / infectious agent has a threshold that once crossed, a problem will occur in whatever particular creature where it's considered an infectious agent. And that's about it.

I'm a raw feeder and I've never had an issue with any upset stomachs, infections, or otherwise due to food. Nor have I come down with salmonella myself. I've been feeding for about 6 years now - to 3 dogs.

To each their own, guys. I support raw feeding, kibble, homecooking, prescription diets, wet food et al. Whatever works for you and your dog is the right thing to feed. I don't get upset over people feeding non-raw and I'd hope no one would get upset over me choosing to feed raw.

Hopefully we can all be respectful and supportive of each other.

She posted the link to show information so other people would see that and not think that just freezing the food for a certain amount of time makes it safe. Almost anytime something is asked on googles about yorkies this site comes up so its not always about who is posting now but others who will read this thread for information.

Oh, I missed that....I thought I clarified that. sheesh I cannot win today....

That was information for anyone who thinks freezing kills salmonella and A LOT of people really do think that.

Yes, it was a bit tongue in cheek....but not to be mean or catty...it just gets the point across in a way that is very well understood! Sometimes all of the scientific babble gets to people and they block...something clear and concise such as that...I think is effective.

LOL...that's why I did a bold on what I was really quoting you for and made a new paragraph for the other comment. Once again....it's hard to read emotions in written text.

I could not agree more. I don't tell anyone what to feed their pups and quite frankly I don't understand all of this stuff about mean and catty comments.

This thread started out as a discussion on grains in kibble. I for one, use such foods and like to dispell the myths about kibble as much as I can.

I don't know...I am lost and certainly not emotional at all with regards to this thread.

I feed kibble as I have said, and will always speak about the good in the foods I use because my pups are healthy. That does not mean I think other people's pups are unhealthy because they feed something different. I don't think I have ever even asked a person what they feed unless it was a pup with a medical condition and the food was possibly needing to be changed.

I've reread this thread all the way through again and I don't see anything that merits the word "mean" being thrown around. I do see lots of back and forth and links being provided to back up statements and opinions on both sides. Maybe I'm old, but that's what we used to call discussion and debate. How are people supposed to make up their minds if they aren't presented with all the sides?

YT would be a pretty boring place if we all fed/vetted/trained alike.

I know raw feeders must feel like so many people just don't understand. But there is a flip side. Those of us who generally support large, corn loving companies also don't get much love.

The bottom line is feed what you believe to be best because if something goes wrong you know you did your best for your dog.

I have no idea where this idea about vets recommending inferior food so that they see animals more is coming from. But I do find it to be an unfair assumption. I'm sure a handful have less than pure intentions when dealing with clients. However, that is not the majority.