Bordetella Vaccination
 

Not sure if this is the right place to post, but I wanted to explain a situation and hear what people thoughts were on how I should respond to a Practice Manager at my dogs Vet clinic or if I even should.

I do not personally believe in the Bordetella vaccination, along with some of the world renowned vaccination specialists, and I personally believe it's just another unnecessary non-core vaccination that is not beneficial against kennel cough. Others may disagree but my thoughts are pretty much summed up in this article (along with many other articles) Should Your Dog Get Bordetella, the Kennel Cough Vaccine? | Truth4Dogs

My dog, Nutmeg had a severe reaction to her first (and last ever) Bordetella vaccination back in 2010 when she was just a 3 mos old, so that also plays a factor as to why I don't believe in the vaccination. It was a very severe reaction and very scary. I did not return to the clinic where she received the vaccination and found a new Vet for Nutmeg after she had the reaction. Nutmeg's new Vet was made aware of the adverse reaction and was "ok" with my decision not to vaccinate Nutmeg with the Bordetella vaccine. Nutmeg has been going to this Vet clinic for he past 2 years and I lover her Vet, and she even gets groomed at the Vet clinic and I love the groomer that grooms her as well.

But, the other day Nutmeg had an appointment to get groomed, and for the first time in 2 years I was approached by a lady who I later found out is the Practice Manager at the Vet clinic (it's a small clinic) and was informed by her that Nutmeg could not be groomed unless she received her Bordetella vaccination. Now Nutmeg has been getting groomed here for 2 years, and I was informed this all of a sudden while there at the clinic to drop Nutmeg off for her appointment. I was a bit taken back and explained that Nutmeg's doctor was aware that she had an exemption from receiving the Bordetella vaccination and that this was never a problem before as to whether or not Nutmeg could or couldn't be groomed. The Practice Manager informed me that it should never have "slipped" and she said she would speak to a Dr. about it (Nutmeg's Vet is on maternity leave) but she stated she did not believe that the Dr would think much differently than her. She returned back after speaking with a Dr and told me that the Dr said it was okay for now and Nutmeg could be groomed. I have to say I was really taken back with a "Practice Manager" telling me what vaccinations need to be given to my dog" and with her being more concerned with any liability (highly unrealistic if she was a bit more educated) vs. my dogs health but at the same time I understand to that she probably thinks she is only doing what is the "norm" practice with grooming/boarding facilities. I did send the Practice Manager Nutmeg's records of when she received the Bordetella vaccination and stated in the email "As promised attached is the vaccination information regarding Nutmeg which shows her last Bordetalla vaccination for her medical file. Dr. Torres is aware of the reaction Nutmeg had from the vaccination that was given at CC Clinic, which should be noted, and we decided not to vaccinate her with this vaccine. I also believe AM has the medical records from when they treated Nutmeg from the reaction she received. I will try to obtain those records, so BBVet can put them on file as well as I only have the invoice record from AM."

So then today I received the following email from the Practice Manager: "
Hello, I wanted to follow up with our conversation about Nutmeg’s Bordatella vacacine. The information you sent (and the records we have) do not indicate any adverse reaction to Bordatella. I was concerned, though, that perhaps something was missed, so I called your previous veterinary clinic (I'm assuming she is talking about CC and not AM- Angell) and spoke with them. They said they don’t have any record of a negative reaction to any vaccines (they wouldn't because she was not treated for the adverse reaction at CC duh...I think I made that clear in my email that she was treated at AM). I also talked with Dr. Torres who said that her feeling was that we should divide vaccines, but that it is important to have Bordatella on board for Nutmeg’s protection and the protection of other pets while Nutmeg is in grooming (first I heard of this).

I know you have talked about setting up an annual exam for Nutmeg, and this would be a good topic to discuss when you are here for that. Unless there is some change in the information we have, I do believe that with the info we have available that it’s necessary, for Nutmeg to have the Bordatella vaccine before any additional grooming appointments.

I hope you understand the reasoning behind this decision. Please don’t hesitate to give me a call if you want to discuss this further.

So...Any advice on how to respond....I'm more than willing to sign a Letter of Informed Consent and waive any liability" if that's even an option and I would really like to "educate' her on the ineffectiveness of the Bordetella vaccine...or at least let her know my feelings on the vaccination so she can speak to the Dr's about it perhaps...or is it just a waste of my time to try to educate these people and/or change their mind? Thoughts....

I would be calling those idiots & telling them that 1st they called the wrong vet office & 2nd your dog had a SEVERE allergic reaction & will NEVER be having a Bordatella vaccination again so if they have a problem with that then you will find a vet & groomer who is a little more concerned with her health & NOT be insisting that she have a vaccination that could kill her. They tried that with me at a groomer once with my wolfhound/X who has chronic rhinitis from the Bordatella vac & developed pneumonia 3 times & was on deaths door for 6 months from 1 stupid NONCORE vaccination that he will NEVER have again. Needless to say, we never went back there.

You could also put it to them as--- if you have an allergy to penicillin do you continue to take it. The answer is NO & it goes in your med file & follows you for life as if you have an allergy to something then you Do NOT eat, take it, touch it or whatever the case may be as those kinds of allergies are 100% life threatening.

I'd find a new groomer.

I use a mobile so I don't have to deal with these kinds of issues. :)

It is a NYS law that all dogs going into daycare or any type of kennel station must have the bordetella vaccine twice yearly. Even going to the groomer your dog must be up to date on core vaccines, spayed or neutered, and have the bordetella vaccine as most groomers are part of a kennel / daycare. At least in NYC they are. I have to get Miles' bordetella updated end of June...

I don't know what people do who don't want to neuter their pets or get vaccines. You can't take them anywhere to do anything.

That's not true at all.

In NY it is different than other states.

I don't know much about NYC - I am sure it is different, but there is always ways around things. I have a friend who lives in NYC and works at a dog daycare and has a dog on minimal vaccines/etc.

I refuse to over-load my dog on unnecessary vaccines simply to accommodate what some others say he "has" to have. Rabies, yes, I will do that every 3 years as per MD law because it's the only vaccine required by law and God forbid, he were to bite someone or something.

But as for other vaccines, he's gotten his DHPP as a pup, and as a one year old, and I will have titers as proof that he is still protected.

But we go camping, to the dog park, walks through the woods, hiking, beaches, dog events, etc. As far as dog boarding and grooming - I don't board him and I get a mobile groomer. But I do know of daycares around here that will accept titers. Oh and he is neutered, but I know a lot of dogs who still get to do things that are not fixed - it just requires more effort on the owners part of course.

If a dog has a life threatening reaction to a vaccine, a vet CAN write a waiver for that vaccine. They can't Make you give your dog a vaccine that will kill it.

Well, you can vaccinate your dogs however you choose; However, your access to dog services will be limited in NYC as the establishments will ask for proof of vaccines, especially if it is a state law, as well as proof of spay or neuter.

If one were to lie about these things and someone's dog gets sick or pregnant and if they can trace it back to that individual I would imagine that they would be sued. I, myself, would either adhere to the rules or find another option with lesser requirements. How would you feel I'd someone lied about their dog not being sick or vaccinated and then got your dog sick? That wouldn't make ME happy.

FYI, No vaccine is 100% effective so if exposed a fully vaccinated animal can still get anything it's been vaccinated for.

Yes, but what if the dog gets the disease or carries it and exposes other dogs to it at the day care. What about human children who contact whooping cough at school. Because someone didn't vaccine their kid.

For dogs as well as children if you don't want to vaccinate then they should be home schooled / not in public doggie care.

Can get a ticket if it is the law. Daycare could probably be sued by parents if dogs get sick and fines from the state. Remember, I am only talking about NYC. I don't know what other states require for dog vaccinations.

Yes, but the groomer or daycare will not accept a dog without the state required vaccinations.

The resolution to this issue depends on how much fight you have in YOU! There is well documented evidence we are over vaccinating our pets and there is growing concern that, among a multitude of side effects, an increase in the incidence of cancer may be linked to this. More and more vets are going along with the recent recommendations for a change in the administration of vaccines, and that titers be checked before re-vaccinating our pets. More and more vets as well as groomers, boarding facilities, etc accept waivers from vaccinations, as well as titer results, that assist in determining the necessity for re-vaccinating. Some days, these people like you encountered at your vet, will illicite a full blown fight to the end in me....and when I set my mind against something, they would have better luck moving Heaven and Earth, than making me back down from reliable evidence that supports my blind determination NOT to endanger my dog! I would start an all out effort to get documentation, as well as all medical records supporting evidence that substantiates my position or the events that have caused my refusal to administer the vaccine. And that office manager would back down and apologize to me for insinuating that I was "misrepresenting the facts" that led me to my decision" not to vaccinate against Bordetella. I have been known to beat a principle to death, rather than back down from what I believe. On another day, if I have a multitude of "brush fires"erupting in several areas of my life, I may have to pick my battle, and just tell them , "You can kiss my.......", and I would find a new vet, or a new groomer, or anyone else that needed to go from my life, because they would rather endanger my pet than agree to documented evidence supporting an alternative and acceptable realm of practice. ALL THIS BEING SAID, I agree with you and your stance on this issue. Under NO circumstances will I give ANYTHING to my pet that evidence based outcomes support checking titers and not over vaccinating. If necessary, I would keep my dogs at home and they would NEVER go anyplace that would DEMAND I risk their life by exposing them to an anaphyllactic reaction.

I'm not saying to lie - titers are a way to prove that a dog still has vaccines in their system. I will be getting titers for Jackson every 3 years. Daycares around here anyways will accept titer testing as vaccines. I am sure NYC would do, in a lot of places. So it's not "not vaccinating" - it's just showing that your dog is still immune and protected (after puppy vaccs and one year vacs). Even the AAHA (what most vets follow) now recommends every 3 years, not yearly.

And I'm not too worried about Jackson catching much of anything because he WAS vaccinated as a pup and at one year of age, therefore making him immune for at least 7 years (which is all scientifically proven, btw).

NYC law does not require anything but rabies by law. But I realize daycares/etc have their own separate rules, but my whole point is just that I wouldn't just give a vaccine because some non-professional is telling me to - I'd find another place. They can't make you give a vaccine which will be harmful to your dog and if the groomer doesn't accept that, I'd find a new groomer.

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In the state of NJ Rabies is Required by Law,first rabies last ONE year, after that your dog can have it every 3 years. IF a dog is NOT vaccinated against rabies and he bites anyone, the dog is PUT TO SLEEP, no questions ask. I got this from my ACO officer , Mr. Dale. if your Dog can't have the Rabies Vaccine per VET certification, your dog MUST wear a muzzle when walk in the state streets. To board your dog it must have all their vaccines, including Bordetella no older that 6 months. also to groom in the big grooming and spa shops.
If you have a Vet certification that your dog can't have the vaccines I am not sure how they handle that.
hugs,

Yeah rabies is the same here - that's why I said I get him his rabies vacc every 3 years as per the state law.

(I dunno if you were replying to my post or the OP, lol. I think the OP said her dog couldn't get bordatella).

I was just posting general information for the state of NJ, to the OP, I think she needs to get a Vet certification that states her dog is allergic to the vaccine and I don't think is another way around it. you must have proof that the health of your dog is in danger if he gets that certain vaccine.
hugs,

My groomer has never asked for proof of a bordatello vaccine I would find a new groomer. If she had a reaction to it they should accept that as reasoning not to have it again. I would also find a new vet and tell the vet you are leaving because of this incident with the practice manager she has way stepped out of line

to the op... I would get a different groomer and vet. I just did not like the "tone" of the way she addressed you.

In Miami-dade rabies is required every year unless you get the 3 year vaccination (or same shot... pay the 3 year price).
I only do Rabies on my older dogs, I do have the blood work done every 3 years to be sure all is well.

Groomers ask for proof of rabies only. My sil said her groomer (Sarasota) requires bordetella vaccination proof also.. I really don't believe her because of the way she said it, I think it was her way of trying to make me look bad that I don't have that vaccination for my guys. lol

Remy is now two, this year I will have the titers instead of bordetella.

:thumbup: AMEN !!!

I think a lot of people just blindly accept the vaccinations that their vets suggest and don't look into what they can do instead of over-vaccinating. I know my mom gets a notice in the mail when her two shih-tzus are due for vaccinations and just takes them in, no questions asked. I, on the other hand... like to research what I put into my pets and titers are a great option for determining immunity. It's also important to take into account your lifestyle and where you live, what is common in your area and if it's necessary to vaccinate for certain things.