I apologize for my over reaction to your post it just took me by surprise how confrontational it seemed for a first post. I do appreciate and value all opinions because they are a learning tool for me. I apologize for MY confrontational post. :)

I thought I would add a link to a site I like alot and it talks alot about the many myths of a raw diet. The Many Myths of Raw Feeding
Yes, cooked bones are a huge no no! And can a dog choke on a bone, of course and dogs have been known to choke on toys and things they just get into and I've even heard they can choke on kibble too. There are no guarantees in life and to me, the benefits far outweigh the small risks.

The other thing I want to adress is how people are worried they can not balance the diet. I'm just wondering how these people balance their own diets. I think humans require alot more "balancing" than dogs do because we are omnivores. It's almost like saying I'm afraid I won't balance my diet properly so I'll just go to McDonalds everyday. We don't trust others to balance our own diets so why do we think that others can do a better job for our dogs than we do?

Having said that, I do realize that not everyone is meant to be a raw feeder and we all have to make the best choices we can and understand that sometimes in life, there are no perfect answers.

I can tell you the benefits I see though:
Smaller and less infrequent stools and less smelly too. And I mean way smaller.

Cleaner teeth.

Less smelly breath

Healthy coats

And the number one reason is because my dogs love it. I can actually see when I do occasionally use kibble that they are just eating because they have to and they don't eat much but with raw, they look forward to it and you can see how much they enjoy it!

I see all of these things with my dogs that eat cooked food. Plus, no risk with cooked food. And, perfectly balanced by a vet nutritionist. And, no more cracked 4th premolars on raw marrow bones (that cost me over $1500 to remedy!). Oh and best of all -- my dogs love the cooked food so much, especially fresh corn!

And, I see the same with my pups who are all on kibble! :) I say to each his own. What works for one does not always work for another.

My baby is on the raw diet for a number of reasons. Firstly I found that it was one of the few things she would consistently eat. she is a very finicky eater and I had never seen her eat the way she did when I first introduced her to the raw. I do supplement it with the kibble(free feeding) but she is such a finicky eater that she doesnt eat enough of it to make a difference. In addition she has food allergies and switching to raw GREATLY reduced her symptoms. I did a TON of research and was satisfied with what I heard.

I feel the need to point out to everyone that raw feeders do not believe in feeding raw marrow bones to dogs of any size. These are typically the large weight bearing bones from cows or deer and yes, are very damaging to dogs teeth particularly if they are big chewers. Raw feeders refer to them as wreck bones and they will damage teeth! My dogs typically eat RAW chicken bones mostly or smaller animals like duck, turkey, rabbit. fish etc but I find that cow or deer and even pork bones are a little too dense for yorkies.
If home cooking works for you, then that's great! There is no way that would work for me as I barely have the time to cook for my human family!

I agree with tjdmom, with lots of research and the help and guidance from many people including a few amazing YT members i've switched Lexie over to a Prey Model Raw diet. She is thriving, her coat is softer and shinier, her poops, more like what poops? they're so tiny and odorless they're hardly the bother they used to be. I know that in itself is a sign that her body is able to use more nutrients from what she is consuming. With regards to the list of bacteria and parasites someone posted, Lexie is fed high quality meats from markets, farms and butchers not to mention dogs can process out said bacteria without ill effect due to higher acidity in the stomach and a shorter digestive tract. Let me ask you something, is your diet balanced? do you eat your recommended serving of fruit, veg, meat, dairy, grain everyday? i doubt it, the thing about Prey Model raw is its balance over time and if you're feeding a good variety of meat, bones and organs you're fine. With regards to bones tearing up intestines, as long as you're feeding the right bones, soft non weight bearing bones this is not a problem but as with anything there are risks, with kibble there are also risks of choking and many more ill effects.

Lexie is loving her whole, fresh foods. Chicken is just that, beef is just that, no unnecessary fillers and things added in the kibble processing factory that is not needed or species appropriate.

Its been harped on here how a lot of vets don't know much about proper nutrition and push foods like Science diet, and i'm to trust said vets when they say fresh meat is bad for my dog?. Kibble was invented not too long ago, because we are always on the lookout for something more convenient, and whats more convenient than overcooked, extruded, carb-and-meat paste with the vitamins literally sprayed on.

I'm not here to try to change anyone's mind on what they should feed, and if you feed kibble and your dog is happy then that's great. What i do know now is i have never been more confident in the way i'm feeding Lexie. If anyone is interested in feeding raw please do your OWN research and don't be intimidated by those who for their own personal circumstances don't approve. :)

And, for those of you who feed Science Diet and other commercial dog foods, the same goes.

Do not be intimidated by those who say that raw is better. I live with some very healthy and quite lovely pups (great coats...poops normal) and they eat kibble. Everyone feels their dog food is better...except those who read forums like this and want to believe everything they read. You really have to be very careful when you start out thinking that it worked for so and so and it will work for me.

Do not accept anyone's word for anything on the internet....research, research research and consult with your vet. That brings up another point: Don't be intimidated by anyone who intimates that vets are stupid and know nothing about nutrition. Remember that the vet you use may one day be needed to save the life of your precious pup! Always good to shop and find a vet you are comfortable with!

This is not a discussion and/or opinion of which way of feeding is best. I refuse to engage in that discussion.

I'm assuming the above comment was directed to me. I don't think my comment about vets and nutrition was meant to intimidate anyone, i actually don't see how you could draw that conclusion based on what i said. I simply based that statement on things that are often said here regarding what food people's vets push them to purchase. I also didn't say this statement holds true for all vets nor would i refer to them as stupid. Please don't twist my words, thank you

I don't think anyone is trying to 'intimidate' anyone in this discussion :eek:. People are just sharing their experiences with different diets. Some share their experiences/knowledge about Prey Model (tjdmom, candigirl etc), some share their experiences/knowledge about pre-made raw (me etc), some w/ kibble (you etc), some w/ homecooked (Ellie May etc). Some with chew bones etcetera. Tjdmom has always been super helpful here w/ Prey :).

I agree that this is not a discussion about which way of feeding is best; I don't think anyone is trying to say this :).

As for nutrition knowledge of vets...unfortunately, they only receive about 1.5 hours of didactic teaching about nutrition in Vet school...that's very disappointing (and, so much of what they learn about nutrition is sponsored by Hill's). Good vets should be comfortable in knowing their own limitations about nutrition. I would trust their knowledge about nutrition more if their knowledge about it was more broad, of better quality, and covered methods other than just kibble.

Your dogs do wonderfully on kibble, and that's awesome. Bc also, if you fed pre-made or Prey - you'd put YHR out of business :eek:.

Yes, I was responding to you....and I don't feel I twisted anything. I merely responded...you made the comment that people might be intimidated by other's opinions of a raw diet and my comment is that by the same token they might be intimidated by the comments some people make about Science Diet and other commercial foods that are recommended by vets and vet nutritionists.

That's all. :)

As I stated in the above post, I did not say anyone here was trying to intimidate. I was responding to the comment that people should not be intimidated.

How would I put YHR out of business? Not sure I understand. YHR is not a business per se...and is not even purchasing dog foods. I am. I pay for all of my own and my foster pups foods. I will spend anything necessary for my pups. I pay for their food and their grooming. Me..no one else. I am only reimbursed for vet expenses. Correction: They do reimburse for prescription diets. I have consulted with vet nutritionists in the past for my own pups when ill, and would do that if necessary for a foster.

I am not trying to say that anyone is wrong...I am just weary of the bashing that vets get about nutrition. Rebecca Remillard recommends commercial food and I hardly think that she is lacking in education and/or knowledge about pet nutrition. BUT...I am honestly not trying to get into a discussion about the different foods. Just saying that the rational about vets not having enough education about dog nutrition, IMHO, has been overused by some. Just my thoughts. We all have our own on this topic. :)

That's why some of us defer to board certified veterinary nutritionists who indeed have more training and such. I trust a vet who knows when to refer me to a vet nutritionist for nutritionist advice.

I have to also comment that I concur with LadyJane's read on this -- it appears the raw feeders are always acting like their diets are superior, that their dogs look better, have smaller stools, process nutrients better, have better coats, etc. I have beautiful dogs with beautiful coats and beautiful clean teeth and fresh breath. So do many of our members who feed something other than raw.

Actually, my vet did send me to a vet nutrionist when needed. She is very comfortable referring out as needed and I don't understand why anyone would go to a vet who was not. That is easily figured out if you are tuned in to a vet.

LadyJane, you used the word "intimidate" quite a lot, and used it in referring to me intimidating people about vets and nutrition, claiming i called them stupid etc. To me that is twisting my words but i digress. I addressed the post regarding all the hazards listed that obviously could deter someone from even wanting to look into what raw is all about.

The things i listed in regards to the improvements i have seen in Lexie is my own personal experiences with feeding her this way. If kibble feeders feel it comes off as feeling as though i'm superior then that's their own feelings not mine. Sorry if that comes off as harsh but i should be able to talk about positive changes in my dogs without others taking offense to it.

It seems kibble and raw feeders will never really see eye to eye on the issue of nutrition and that's fine, if you're confident with what you're feeding then let that be it, in the end we're all just doing what we feel is best for our pups :)

The word intimidate came from you. I responded and stand by my response.

You are right...everyone has his/her own opinion(s) about what is good nutrition for dogs. I am not even going to touch on my beliefs about raw. That is not my concern. For those of you who believe in it, that is your decision. I just don't like the intimations that other pups who are not being fed raw are or look less healthy than those being fed raw.

Yes, I am quite confident in what I feed my dogs and I was not trying to sway anyone or defend my choices. Yes, I do believe that many of the raw feeders on this forum seem to think what they are doing is superior to others. I also believe that many who are advised to feed prescription diets are afraid of those diets because of fear mongering on this forum.

Additionally, I don't use money as a guideline for vet care, grooming or foods for my pups. If I cannot afford the best for each of them, I cannot afford to have them. This last paragraph is directed to whoever suggested cost as an issue.

I reread my post above and see nothing that says that any particular person called any vet stupid.

I have been on this forum long enough to see many posts about how vets don't know this and vets don't know that. It was a general statement..and I did NOT attach it to any one person! :)
So....please don't twist MY words either.
:rolleyes:

I only meant that feeding raw could be expensive for a crew your size and take up a lot of your time, instead of being able to focus on the pups. That is all. I thought about saying 'put out of charity'...but that isn't written correctly. I never said you didn't pay for anything.

I didn't bash vets.

Superiority...really? Is it wrong for me to share the benefits of the diet I feed, just as you do?

That's exactly why I said what I did about vets.

Geez people, I'm now sorry for sharing my thoughts.

I got it later on about the food....but, what I must say is that IF I thought raw was better, I would provide it, no matter the cost. I personally do not approve...but am not going to sit here and bash it. I have done my research and I have had discussions with my vet and also a nutritionist and I do what I do because I feel it is best for my pups. We all make those decisions for ourselves and for our pups.

I will go out on a limb here and say that there are many people on this forum who do send a message that what they feed is superior. It does come across in a strange way and does send a message that people who feed kibble are poisoning their dogs. Normally, when someone asks about dog food and what I feed, I merely tell them and move on because it is their choice what they feed. I don't have a reason to defend what I do. My dogs are very healthy and beautiful. The fosters blossom in my care...tells me enough.

I did not say you bashed vets, Ann!

As for being sorry for sharing thoughts...I totally get it. I am being accused of everything but murdering a baby this morning when I simply was voicing my opinions.

Yes, i did say that, thank you for quoting me. In my previous response i addressed that specifically but i guess you missed it. There was a post listing many hazards with feeding raw, that without a doubt would intimidate someone who doesn't know much about raw or is curious about trying it, one of the quotes were that "your dog can die", so i felt i should share my knowledge on the issue. I won't go over any more as i've already explained things pretty thoroughly. Your beliefs are your beliefs and if you wish to feel that raw feeders view your dogs as " less healthy" then you're free to do so, but please don't lump us all together in that assumption.

I personally haven't seen any "fear mongering" so i wont comment on that. Anyway this thread was asking us to share our thoughts and experiences with raw. I and others who have first hand experience with feeding it have shared and if that upsets some people here i apologize but that was the purpose of the OP's post.

Hm, i responded to that post with "i assume the above comment is directed to me" in which you replied "yes, and i don't think i twisted anything". Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

This was said in reply to me, which is why I assumed it was directed at me. If that assumption is wrong, then it's wrong.

What kind of message is this toward others who make choices other than your own? How would kibble feeders feel/think if a raw feeder or homecooker said this to kibble feeders? You are always welcome to comment on raw. However, it appears raw feeders are not welcome to share opinions on other diets, as evidenced by this thread. I'm supportive of kibble, as I've stated many, many times on this forum.

Again, as evidenced by this thread - some kibble feeders seem to think feeding kibble is superior. And if they believe and want to support others in feeding kibble, being supportive of choices goes both ways. There are raw feeders here who fully support kibble feeders.

No, that was not directed at you...it is all over this forum in many topics. Not just about food. The general disrespect towards vets is unbelievable. The conspiracy theories about them blow my mind.

I was not commenting about raw foods directly and honestly I feel like I have been pushed around here by the raw supporters simply because I dared to even post on this thread when I feed kibble. I said: "I am not even going to touch on it", because I am not here to debate nutriton. That did not mean that anyone is wrong, but clearly people here are on the defensive. That is not going to be my problem. I don't defend what I do...and honestly don't understand why anyone who is comfortable in their beliefs should feel they must defend.

I don't see anyone on this thread saying that kibble is superior. I DID see the comparisons of raw to kibble.

I honestly don't have any more time for this. I have explained myself more than I usually do. I wish all of you a lovely day...and your pups as well! :)

While on the daunting task of what was best for my girl, I seriously considered a Raw Diet. I did my own research while also taking into consideration the experience of others who did feed raw.

I decided not to feed raw because I did not feel it was right for us. My girls do fantastic on kibble. They are healthy and always ready for meal time-I don't know what more I could ask for: happy~healthy pets.:)

There are lots to consider when starting any diet. Taking experience of others is just part of the process. You have to see what will work best for you and yours.

I don't feed raw because Lucy has mild MVD and we keep her on a limited amount of protein and only certain kinds of protein.

I know on other boards I have frequented (not this one)- even this has been called into question by others with long explanations about how she must have protein, etc and how protein can't be the cause of all the liver problems and how raw would be good for her.

I really didn't feel like getting into the whole explanation with them because they know nothing of MVD or yorkies (And we all know how special and different they are from all other breeds) :)

But I'm not comfortable with it; I've researched MVD up and down and all around - and I can't see where raw would be good for a dog with MVD. It just seems like an all protein based diet would not be good. Yet, they (not you guys) made me feel like I was crazy!

Since you guys are experienced with yorkies - I'd be curious to know if there are any raw feeders out there for MVD dogs?

I saw that too - it was by analogy with the mcdonald's comment.

I am posting this without reading any of the "back and forth" that seemed to go on on this thread. people always have opinions and everyone is entitled to them. i hope nothing too bad was said on either side because it really is up to you to decide what is best for your babies.

so here is my experience. I have fed Dexter a Prey Model Raw diet for about 3 1/2 years. (PMR is not pre-made, but actual meat, bones and organs diet) i researched for months before i started him on it and also got my husbands opinions on everything since he is a human holistic healthcare worker. after a couple of months of research i decided that this was the way to go for me.

i think one of the major points that really made me have the shift in my thoughts on it was the fact that our little ones have 99.9% of the same dna as a wolf. this means that their digestive tracts are set up in a very similar fashion. Also, when you think that kibble has only been around for maybe 50 - 75 years...if that...that is not enough time for a digestive tract to evolve and adapt to a new form of food. before kibble dogs were fed table scraps or went out and caught squirrels, rabbits, etc. their bodies are made to be able to fully optimize a raw diet.

that is not to say that a dog cannot be happy and healthy on a diet of kibble. For me, the choice came down to the fact that i try to eat as natural for me (choosing organic food, i try not to eat processed foods, i cook as much as i can) so i thought that it was only fair that i fed me "kid" what i felt to be the healthiest diet for him.

many people notice a change in the coat and/or teeth when they switch, but the biggest change i noticed was his poop. it is smaller and dry and doesnt stink bad and if left for a day, will actually flake away! this is becuase there is not fillers in his food. his body uses al of the nutrients that go in and there is not much by product left over. If my vegan sister ever takes him when we are away, he eats kibble and i notice a change in poop and his overall body smell when i get him back. his eyes run and he smells worse when on kibble.

the down side to raw is that it does thae more planning. especially a PMR diet and especially when traveling. I have found some great dehydrated raw foods that just require water added to them which are great for traveling.

i have my puppy on kibble right now because she is so small and needs access to food around the clock to prevent hypoglycimia and am working in a pre-made raw food in the morning and night. I am lucky enough to have a holistic vet here in Toronto that i trust and has helped me so muh from planning puppy appropriate meals for when she gets a bit older and what foods are best to introduce and also gives me suggestions for suppliments when needed.

anyway, this is just my experience and opinions. anyone looking to change foods should have info on both sides of the story and feel fully comfortable with what you choose to feed. good luck and if you have any questions at all about a raw diet, i am very happy to answer if you send me a PM. :)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Alana you've been such a big help with answering all my questions about raw and giving me local places to shop, thanks for everything :)

I want say one more thing, and this is as a Moderator.

Just because raw feeders are in the minority, it doesn’t mean they should feel they can’t share…either about raw, or their opinions about other diets.

If kibble feeders want to say “I don’t support raw feeding, and here's why...” (which they do, which is fine), then return the courtesy toward raw feeders if they want to say “I don’t support kibble and here's why”. There is nothing superior about sharing these kinds of opinions simply because they are different from another opinion.

If anyone feels they can’t return the courtesy, then walk away until you’re able too…unless a dog’s life is in danger, which is a different matter. As SimonandHallie used to say, it really is that simple.

I am feeding all three :)

Aja came home on Purina Proplan and had very itchy skin. I transitioned her to TOTW and the itching went away.

I started reading on RAW and decided to try the dehydrated kind because no one else had the other premade kind around here and didn't want to deal with shipping. She loves stella and chewy's dehydrated raw, so she eats that when significant other or I are home. The day(s) that coincide with both of us being out of the home working, she eats just kibble.

I also feed homecooked treats and feed frozen peas etc.

Prey model is not convinient for us at the moment with small children who require lots of attention but would love to try it sometime.

I have no concerns when it comes to nutrition because she eats anything and everything, is healthy, gaining good weight, active and I couldn't be happier with the results so far.

I echo what Ann, sais above!