Technically, a properly placed and properly sized endotracheal tube does not "expand" the trachea. It maintains an open airway. Using one that is large enough to "stretch" the trachea would likely result in scarring, damage to the vocal chords and bronchospasms during the intubation ( the risk increases with prolonged and/or repeated intubations). One that fits properly has a slight air leak, yet still maintains enough air pressure to properly ventilate.

My precious little Lacey was 10 months old and weighed less 2 1/2 lbs. and she was spayed, had 4 teeth extracted and a dew claw removed at the same time. She did wonderful plus we took her home late that evening. I wouldn't think about letting them put her to sleep two times for that. I have been to Banfield several times but only because a dear friend of mine who has been my vet for almost thirty years has the one where we live. But I still chose not to have mine spayed there. We kept waiting for her to get to 3 lbs. before surgery but she really needed those teeth taken out so we went ahead with it. Every one at the clinic is in love with her because she is so small and loves everyone so she got lots of TLC. I really enjoy reading all of the posts here. You all sound like a wonderful, loving group. BTW, insist on the pre-op bloodwork.

Thanks you said it better than I......:thumbup:

I again apologize for an excessive explanation...

But, I can't help but laugh a little...
From what I've read here, I wouldn't put it past Banfield
to use an "one size fits all" Trache Tube.

Im sorry you have to change vets it stinks I know and they are so convenient I know but it will be for the best long term

I'm sorry, that places scares the hell out of me. My vet did not even give me an option to do Mojo's neuter separately. She informed me that we had to wait until he was older to do his neuter because of the possibility of having to do an extraction. She then explained the risk involved in putting them under so of course we wouldn't want to have to do it numerous times unnecessarily.

Wow, it just blows my mind that any licensed vet would do otherwise. It just goes to show how some really are all about the money. I wonder if those vets are paid a commission per procedure?

Banfield vets may have a little of a legitimate concern that they have to keep a dog under longer to do a teeth extraction also but its done everyday and I think there is more risk putting them under twice

chachi,
Thanks for your empathy, but...
I love my little ones SO much (as we all do) I'd move
to Indianapolis it I had to, to make things right for them ! :D

hnybun,
YES, that's exactly why I delayed her Spay, where dental issues
could be addressed as well.
But, I've also heard that waiting too long, can cause complications.
It would be SO nice, if there were some "concrete" rules to go by.
I just don't think that Breeds differ to the extent, where something
as basic as that, to have any "flexibility" in application.
(referring to specifically when a Spay/Neuter should occur)

I agree.. I remember taking my Sammy in and the vet recommended we do as much as we could while he was under. The vet did not want to have to put him under again anytime soon.

Also.. just to build on other post. I got the blood work done so I would have informational base line for any future problems. This was at the advise of my yt friends. I think it is important.
I have read about this clinic.. I have not read or heard anything good... run swhuston!!!!!

I have also read a lot about the intubaltion.. I was really worried about the side effects. My vet did explan it was safe if the correct size was used. Then he said he doesn't intublate(well that is what my dh said so who knows what the vet did say.:eek:.) . I did think it was just to facilitate ventilation.. well I shouldn't say just because it is important!!!

Sofia had to have the two surgeries done a month apart, but that was because she only weighed 2lbs 5oz. I waited tell she was 8 months old, but she just wasn't going to get any bigger. My vet and I felt it was safer for her. Normally they do try to do them at the same time, if the pre-op blood work is good.

I was concerned about Ziva having 7 teeth removed and not being able to eat after the spay- but actually you could not even tell where the double teeth slid out from , her gums went right over them and I think she was more comfortable without them. I would not delay the tooth removal any longer than necessary. Ziva's teeth are beautifully straight and I don't think they would have been if the baby teeth pushed the new ones crooked.

Lil Sis,

HA HA "run", maybe a hastened exit is more like it at my age ! :D
And believe me, as of this post, that IS happening !
++++++++++++
I've already been in contact whit Ladyjane, and she's processing
some information to me soon.
++++++++++++

Just read back over the posts...
Warmth, concern and helpfulness abound, makes someone feel
pretty good about being a member here.
That don't happen a lot now a days...

Thank ALL of you for your support and help.

Have a good Day ! :)
S.W.

The teeth are pulled after the spay/neuter if the stats are good. There is no reason to put a dog under twice for this unless there is a problem. The actual act of putting them under (when they first fall "asleep") isn't something I'd be doing more than once for no reason.

Intubation does cause irritation. Coughing is very normal and expected. I've read a few reports of tracheal damage that owners assume was from intubation. Haven't really seen confirmation of that. I mean, yes, damage can happen. It absolutely should not be collapsing the trachea. Not going to say it never happens. It isn't something I'd be too concerned about though. And I would hope all vets are intubating for these procedures!!!

A CBC and chemistry really should be done at a minimum. Anything else is pretty optional, but not a bad idea. I think a bile acids test would be good. there are different chemistries you can get (some include more than others). Depends on how cautious you want to be. Don't know what each one includes off the top of my head. Not a bad idea to look at clotting factors, but my guess is that would get into some $$$.

Banfield sucks! They are like Kaiser to me. When you go into the exam room you see a vet STUDENT! and the student does all the checkups, and then the actual vet comes in to double check their work. Why am I paying a $40 office visit to be seen by a 20 yr old kid?

After that first time I took Uni there and almost $100 for one shot I never went back.

My current awesome vet did Uni's spay, tooth extraction, dental(no charge!), removed a small growth on her head, and clipped her nails (no charge!) in one session.

First of all, I just want to say how much I appreciate all of your concerned comments on this matter. I'm a little overwhelmed at the moment, not often one finds such a wonderful group of people, regardless of the venue of the website. I want to thank each and every one of you sincerely.

But, I think things are worse than has been told (about Banfield)....so far !

You all know by now, I'm DEFINITELY going to a new vet. LadyJane has provided me with a resource reasonably close by, and I'm going to give them a shot. (thank you again Dear Lady)

One of the things a new Vet is going to ask, is "what's been done so far" ?

Fortunately, I'm pretty good a keeping records, and have a Folder on each of my guys. SO, I started a file in Excel, inoculations and procedures in the left Column, and the dates done in the horizontal rows. (one for each dog)

Given my "limited" knowledge about Inoculations and the frequency which they are administered, I'm not going to just "blow up" over what I found, but, it seems like there has been several (about six different ones total) given to one of my animals (Male 1yo at the time), a little more than a month or so apart.

Now, I understand that Puppies require subsequent/successive inoculations but I didn't think that an Adult animal required this.

Just to make sure you know what I'm talking about, let me list them.
(understand that before now, I had NO reason to check up on this)
The following shots were given on...

3/10/2009 and 4/7/2009
DHLPPC

9/10/2009 and again on 11/03/2009
Leptospirosis 4-Way
Giardia
Lymes Disease
Corona Virus

11/3/2009 and 12/1/2009
Porphyromonas

Now, I've tried to do a search on IF the above repetitive inoculations are proper, BUT, wow, it's a very confusing issue, and I'm not sure if I'm even "spouting" about this with any foundation. But, I'll say this in my own behalf.

I KNOW that it's pretty obvious that these shots were given, I paid for them. But, I had NO reason to suspect any wrong doing (gouging), and I didn't think I needed or had any reason to check up on them.
So, I trusted Banfield to administer an appropriate Health Care Plan for me.

Right now, I'm feeling pretty foolish in letting this slip by me.....
But if there's anyone from Banfield lurking on this Thread, let me assure you...

I have documents and CCard receipts on EVERYTHING I've said !
And IF there are any problems that arise, because of any mismanagement
of my animals.... God help you !

I 100% agree! I know nothing about banfield, but that sounds like a very "shaddy" practice. Any vet should absolutely recomend pulling the baby teeth while the dog is already under anesthesia.

Glad you are considering a new vet.

My Chloe was only 4.5 pounds when she was spayed and she had a liver biopsy at the same time- which is pretty invasive (way more then pulling a few baby teeth) and she did totally fine. Find someone who is experienced with small dogs (I am sure anyone ladyjane suggested is top notch) and your baby should be fine.

Dogs under 4 pounds are more likely to have problems due to their weight. Pups that are closer to a year old... if they have any retained baby teeth they are usually not difficult to remove at all. There are exceptions but your pup is a good age and a good size so I really doubt she'll have any difficulties.

I, personally, only used Banfield one time (for vaccines for my kitty), and I will never go back. I thought no one could screw up vaccines... haha.

[QUOTE=SWHouston;3484856]First of all, I just want to say how much I appreciate all of your concerned comments on this matter. I'm a little overwhelmed at the moment, not often one finds such a wonderful group of people, regardless of the venue of the website. I want to thank each and every one of you sincerely.

But, I think things are worse than has been told (about Banfield)....so far !

You all know by now, I'm DEFINITELY going to a new vet. LadyJane has provided me with a resource reasonably close by, and I'm going to give them a shot. (thank you again Dear Lady)

One of the things a new Vet is going to ask, is "what's been done so far" ?

Fortunately, I'm pretty good a keeping records, and have a Folder on each of my guys. SO, I started a file in Excel, inoculations and procedures in the left Column, and the dates done in the horizontal rows. (one for each dog)

Given my "limited" knowledge about Inoculations and the frequency which they are administered, I'm not going to just "blow up" over what I found, but, it seems like there has been several (about six different ones total) given to one of my animals (Male 1yo at the time), a little more than a month or so apart.

Now, I understand that Puppies require subsequent/successive inoculations but I didn't think that an Adult animal required this.

Just to make sure you know what I'm talking about, let me list them.
(understand that before now, I had NO reason to check up on this)
The following shots were given on...

11/3/2009 and 12/1/2009
Porphyromonas

Now, I've tried to do a search on IF the above repetitive inoculations are proper, BUT, wow, it's a very confusing issue, and I'm not sure if I'm even "spouting" about this with any foundation. But, I'll say this in my own behalf.
HMMM just wondering since when the Dental Vac became normal procedure? I know at my Vet it is offered but can be declined.

TxVicki,
I'm not sure that I would have declined it, IF I knew I could !
I trusted those guys to administer the Inoculations appropriately
and never thought to "check up" on them.

ArmaniMan, kjc,
Thank you both for your supportive words, I too thought that doing
any procedure as invasive as a Spay at a very young age, was
a little risky. I know that many do, but, I was just hesitant.

But...
The thrust of my last post (list of duplicate inoculations) was to
solicit comments on any dangers which might arise from multiple
inoculations like that.
Quite a few very experienced and well informed members here,
HIGHLY limit the number and frequency of inoculations to their
animals.

There's got to be a good reason for that.... right ?

My vet does not recommend the dental vaccine. I don't even think she offers it.

SW have you checked out the AAHA website for vaccine guidelines? This might help you:

http://www.aahanet.org/publicdocumen...s06revised.pdf

Pre-Op blood work is not always the same. They did the Pre-op blood work for my Jack Russell Candy, before her spay, at the vet's office but had to send off for the testing done on Ben, my yorkie, before his neutering as the doc wanted additional testing done. Ben's bloodwork also cost twice as much. Older dogs getting pre-op blood work done need a geriatric panel -- it also contains a Thyroid panel. But the usual tests done pre-op are to test for health of the internal organs -- heart, pancreas & liver function tests (like ALT, AST), kidney function tests (like BUN, creatinine), immune system, glucose level, clotting factor, total blood protein, electrolytes, and CBC (complete blood count) checking for anemia and infection, among other things.

Maybe it was a difference of having a Basic metabolic Panel or a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel in addition to the CBC? I did not get to see Ben's itemized tests. I think I will ask for a copy next visit -- then I'll know the difference for sure.

You can see how important these tests might be! Going under anesthesia may still be possible even with abnormal pre-op blood work, but sometimes additional precautions need to be taken. The pre-op blood work may also identify an unknow condition that would preclude the surgery and/or require immediate treatment. Yo can imagine how important it would be to know if there was a clotting problem before starting surgery!

I will be interested to hear what others think about the "Porphyromonas" -- my vet has not even offered them. I only have one with dental problems, Ben. I might be very interested in this vaccine for him!
http://www.doglogic.com/vaccination.htm For Dr. Dodds Vaccine Protocols

Food for thought...
Blood work

Vaccination Schedule Recommendations For Dogs
W Jean Dodds Vaccine Protocol VACCINATION PROTOCOLS

How to Protect Your Dog from a Vaccine Junkie
Dr. Paula Terifia, DVM


How to Protect Your Dog from a Vaccine Junkie - Google Search

Deb, I wonder about this Elvis had (has) dental issues, seems to me this is okay (Yorkies are prone to dental issues) but basic preventative care could substitute for it and lessen the side effects etc.
Again though, my mind frame has always been why take a pill if you can just alter (blank) and not need it, I see a lot of this as "band aid solutions"
I believe only real issues should be medicated and treated in my opinion and preventative care is foremost important to triage. Okay, there's my 2 cents.
Porphyromonas Vaccine

Where my opinion comes from in my thinking:
Now I also didn't let my kids get the "new flu" vaccine, sorry it hasn't been around long enough to see any long term side effects, and I'm not into guinea-pigging my children, but I do believe whole heartily in getting vaccinations, definitely not one of those who doesn't believe it in, my children had the Hep B vac. many people opt out on that, I looked at the risk and decided it was necessicary, we live in an area Hep B is a reality of exposure-of course I also don't get my children vaccinated when they have a cold and I didn't follow the standard schedule my children were older, we keep our babies at home here and limit their exposure and use homeopathic remedy as much as possible and immune boosters in the interim and as much as possible.

I have the same attitude towards my dogs, I get the rabies vac. every three years and said not to the Leptospirosis vac.

I rescued a dog and she was in such bad shape when I picked her up that I took her to the vet first to get checked out before taking her to my home. My vet was closed by the time I got back to my town (drove 2.5 hours to get her). Anyway I was basically forced to take her to Banfield because they were the only ones still open for routine type visits. She turned out to be fine and just had some simple skin issues from being kept outside and in filthy conditions. They gave me the option of doing a thorough workup at the tune of 600 dollars. I said no, paid my 35 and we left with her 7 day supply of antibiotic.

My normal vet cringes when Banfield is mentioned because they do exactly what BonBon just said - unnecessary procedures and vaccinations. They also have a health plan that is very hard to cancel as I have been told by some who had it and then tried to cancel it.

You have done such a great job of looking out for her. I agree with the others, take her to another vet.

These are great resources, check them out :) As far as the vaccines already been given, what's done is done. I never do lepto vaccs. or lyme (we have ticks here but the vaccine has been proven to fail frequently)but it depends on the exposure level for your dog. I've heard Jean Dodds (I think she reccomends boosters ever 3 yrs instead of annualy and titer (spell?)testing in between if you show and need proof of innoculation) is really good, definatly check that link out - I'm actually going to do so myself :). Good luck with your new vet, hope they give you sound advise and care :D

When Daisy and Lily were puppies, we took them to Banfield. We didn't find it hard to cancel however, I have read this several times so I sent letters via mail and e-mail to everyone and their brother at Banfield to MAKE SURE my plans were cancelled at the end of the year.

We were not happy with the services. Not even counting the excessive vaxes. They used certain benefits off of our plan willy-nilly, then when we needed them said we'd already used them, even though we never asked them to do so.

They gave Lily the Lepto vax and didn't inform me that it is the MOST reactive. We almost lost her.

They told us that Daisy was "worthless."

Then, they claimed that Lily had to be catheterized for EVERY SINGLE VAX because she reacted to one. Their reasoning was not for her safety but because "it is their policy." They said the same thing about Daisy, who has never reacted to anything. She was supposed to be catheterized simply because she is under 10 pounds :rolleyes:

We never saw a vet student. We'd see a vet nurse (generally at vet tech) for a quick look over and then the vet would come in.

They did Lily and Daisy's spay. The girls came through okay but I really think they over-medicated them (either with pain killers or sedatives).

All in all, I wouldn't recommend them.

ladyjane,
Thanks for the link..UOO big article, I'll have to closely read it !
Also, Vet apt scheduled for both today....$$$ ouch ! :(

CGurl,
Thanks for the links, and from what I picked up from Dodd's statement
the Porphyromonas was a 2-Stage Inoculation. However, I was never
told (by Banfield) that Sneakers needed it, and from what I've read
about the symptoms, he had NONE.

One thing I didn't understand was, the do and don't listed in..
Vaccination Schedule Recommendations For Dogs
Top block says do, and bottom says not required for same shots ?? :confused:

LDMomma,
Wow, I thought I had a bad time with them ! :eek:

Others...
Again, thank you so much for your comments. :thumbup:

Top block is recommendations with appropriate ages, (for puppies)
second block was not to's that are often recommended, but lists specific details for them at adult ages (says dogs instead of puppy).

Poor lady I'm volunteering her here, but I remembered the specialist I took my dog to telling me about this schedule and Mardelin brought it up her as what she uses, she's very will informed on it all, you might want to ask her specifics, I'm pretty sure she'd know details etc.

The only specific I really would throw my 2 cents in on is if you don't need it due to risk factors, why take the risk of doing it? For example don't care what the law is (phewwww it's 3 years here, but neener at the same time I'd be a lil law breaker LOL).

I'll never give a three year rabies vac yearly just because someone paper pushed it despite veterinary common sense.

Many people feel rabies isn't necessicary-personally I live in an area critters come through our yard, we had a rabies epidemic here, and it's not worth the risk to me period: life vs side effects-I will give a 3 year rabies to my dog we use the dead-vac option at my vets. One vet here pushes the lepo because of our rabies issues,even CA is low our area is high, but I refereed to Dodd's rec., and that was that I wasn't asked if I was interested in it again.

CGurl,

OH ok.. I missed the Pup/Adult thing, I was trying to read through a
LOT of information yesterday ! :rolleyes:

But on the frequency issue...
What can one do, when a professional says...
"Isn't it possible that your Dog might contract this or that" ?

One has to admit there's a "possibility", and I do have several
transient (wild) species running through my yard at night.
I think we established that Porphyromonas relates to dental
issues, and, a sequential series (2) was appropriate, IF it were
required at all.

But, what about the others I mentioned in my Post (#45).
Do you/others have any information relating to the jeopardy one's
animals can be placed in, when multiple injections are given ?