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Lolli_lah 04-08-2010 01:35 PM

I notice she hasn't pooped since yesterday morning. Is that to be concerned?

Wylie's Mom 04-08-2010 03:11 PM

I see you got some wonderful help from Ellie May :D, yay!

On the poop, it depends. Her system is trying to regulate right now, so it's not too surprising if she is irregular. You don't want her to get too backed up though.

I would make sure she is eating enough food and drinking enough water too (not enough water can cause constipation). Maybe put some of that diluted broth on her food.

Lolli_lah 04-08-2010 03:18 PM

Yeah now that you mention it I know she is eating just fine, but I don't really see her drinking water. Should I continue to give her gatorade? Over the weekend the vet suggested orange gatorade because of the electrolytes.

Ellie May 04-08-2010 03:27 PM

She isn't drinking b/c she is getting moist food. Her water requirement will be very minimal to none at all on this type of diet. The more moisture the better if she isn't going, but that is why she isn't drinking tons...

Lolli_lah 04-08-2010 03:29 PM

But not drinking could still be the cause of not pooping?

Ellie May 04-08-2010 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lolli_lah (Post 3076153)
But not drinking could still be the cause of not pooping?

If her moisture requirement is met through her diet, then the not pooping is not b/c of lack of water. It may be that the ingredients are binding things up and adding moisture can't hurt as Ann said.

Her system was just totally out of balance though and it has only been just over a day since her last bowel movement, so unless she is straining, it is okay.

Pink, moist gums is a really good sign.

Lolli_lah 04-08-2010 03:44 PM

Her gums are black so even the vet said it's hard to tell when you do that pressure thing to see how long it takes the white to turn back to pink or whatever.

Is it too early to start introducing kibble little by little in with the rice + babyfood? Would giving her more Gatorade hurt until she starts pooping more regularly again?

Ellie May 04-08-2010 04:06 PM

The black is normal pigment. Surprising that you can't see any pink.
Anyway, you can still see if they are tacky/sticky. If so, that would indiate dehydration. She shouldn't be though with moist food, etc. and not throwing up anymore or having diarrhea...

I wouldn't be comfortable saying when to start kibble up again b/c that varies by dog and can cause problems to start up again. It's really something you'll need to talk to your vet about. I also can't tell you how long she can go without pooping, but it is more than a day.

Lolli_lah 04-08-2010 04:18 PM

Well there is slight pink on the black gums but it looks normal and feels pretty moist and not tacky.

So I guess I need to call the vet tomorrow and ask his opinion on when to add kibble back and not continue to do it now?

Ellie May 04-08-2010 04:57 PM

Yes, you can ask when to switch and what to switch to and if she doesn't poop by then, you can ask how long she can go without.

Lolli_lah 04-08-2010 10:47 PM

Just updating a little. I had taken her out around 9PM EST and no poopies, but then my mom did again around 11:30 after I was in bed and she told me there was a little poopies but she couldn't find it (it was after dark of course). So not sure if maybe she just did the poopie stance or maybe she really just did a little. Either way is a good sign, yes?

Also I heard her drink some water on her own. Woo! lol I hate being so worried about everything! So this relieved me so much. I hope she keeps up the poopies lol.

Lolli_lah 04-09-2010 05:19 AM

Just also wanted to add in here that she has gotten a few pieces (like 2) of cat dry food by accident (we usually have certain times when she is allowed downstairs and we put the cat food bowl up on the counter but I was in the middle of cooking dinner and it slipped my mind) and she did just fine. I'm so confused! I hope she'll be okay. I been watching like a hawk to be sure and so far she seems perfectly happy!

Lolli_lah 04-10-2010 06:57 AM

Sry for the posts.. Just trying to keep updates. She had another bowel movement today, was the only one since the other mentioned. Everything was fine (no worms and no mucousy stuff) but just seemed a little soft. Could that be due to her diet of rice and baby beef stuff?

Wylie's Mom 04-12-2010 07:21 AM

Soft stools can be from so many things, including this new diet of hers, so it's hard to say.

I also received your PM about her burping - and burping probably means something in the diet is bothering her tummy. She could also be having reflux, which is harmful to the esophagus.

It sounds like she has a lot of continuing and new symptoms - it'd probably be a good idea to go back into the vet and revisit everything again. I so hope you can get things squared away.

Lolli_lah 04-12-2010 07:37 AM

She doesn't really have any symptoms right now except burping sometimes after eating (doesnt happen every time). So burping in dogs is not the same as humans burping? It could be related to gastro-? The stools I figured are soft because her food has been soft. Is that a possibility? As I start re - introducing her kibble back to her food I make it soft by adding a little tiny bit of water. Just a tiny bit to make the kibble a little soft not like soup or anything. Is that ok?

Otherwise everything seems to be ok, no vomitting at all and no diarrhea. No bouts of uncomfortable or pain and no lethargy or any questionables. I have been watching like a hawk, cuz I'm afraid of it flaring up again. She been her normal hyper self ever since last Tuesday.

kjc 04-12-2010 08:05 AM

Has she been spayed?

Lolli_lah 04-12-2010 08:06 AM

Yeah..

kjc 04-12-2010 08:20 AM

You could ask the Vet's receptionist to mail you copies of the bloodwork. Or to keep them with your file so you can pick them up the next time you go there. Just in case you have to go to an ER, you have a record of what's been done...

Do you give her any kind of hard chew type treats: rawhide, dental chews, bully sticks, pig ears, hooves.bones ...etc.?

Adding water to the food will never give her diarrhea, just helps to prevent dehydration. And, if she is not eating, it is okay to give Nutrical every couple of hours... you don't want her blood sugar to drop. Soft poops are okay for a little while, but watch for anal glands to fill if too soft. Have you noticed any bloating... or a very full look to her abdomen?

How long ago was she spayed? (don't need to be exact)

Lolli_lah 04-12-2010 08:28 AM

I thought all this was explained in this thread already but if not my mistake.

It was last weekend she was sick and went to the vet. Earlier in that week I gave her a new treat and I think that is what upset her. I do not give her anything now except for rice and gerber beef and have started slowly adding back in her kibble food (Wellness simple solution) per vet instruction. Was using nutrical until I started adding back in her kibbles, although just on safe side I give her a lick here or there. She's been doing really good.

She never had diarrhea at all this whole time. She's not bloated or anything. I just was asking about burping and some other things.. She was spayed in early december of '09.

kjc 04-12-2010 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lolli_lah (Post 3081618)
I thought all this was explained in this thread already but if not my mistake.

It was last weekend she was sick and went to the vet. Earlier in that week I gave her a new treat and I think that is what upset her. I do not give her anything now except for rice and gerber beef and have started slowly adding back in her kibble food (Wellness simple solution) per vet instruction. Was using nutrical until I started adding back in her kibbles, although just on safe side I give her a lick here or there. She's been doing really good.

She never had diarrhea at all this whole time. She's not bloated or anything. I just was asking about burping and some other things.. She was spayed in early december of '09.

Sorry, I was just trying to be a bit more specific about certain issues....
you still did not specify exactly what 'new treat' she was given...

But, not to worry...

She sounds to be exhibiting female behavior as her spay was only 4 months ago and they can still be having hormone adjustments within that time frame, and a bit later.(6-8 months). Some females will continue 'humping' behaviors for years after, usually with a favorite toy...

If my dogs put their front legs up on me shortly after they eat, they belch. Sometimes they belch without doing that (rearing up). I don't see it as a problem... sometimes they will seek more food after belching. (I guess it makes room) Best thing for digestion would be to put her on probiotics, especially after being on antibiotics.

You are right, her episode was probably related exclusively to the 'new treat' and has nothing to do with her butt in the air.

Glad she's doing well....:D

Lolli_lah 04-12-2010 08:53 AM

The vet said the butt in the air when she was showing sign of discomfort could be related to the gastro- a cramp from gas or something to that effect. Since she only had shown that for a couple hours and never before or since and was never yelping out in pain that is why he draws that conclusion is what he said, but have to monitor to see if it happen again he has to see her during symptoms. But it never did.

The treat was Ol Roy brand type of treat. Similar to Milkbone type of treat. I know, it was stupid to buy.. :/

Lolli is 7 years old and I rescued her as a breeder dog but she had only been with the previous owner a little over 1 year and the history prior to that year wherever she got Lolli from was unknown. The previous owner was a vet tech so she was kept in decent health at least.

The only concerns left now are the soft stool (maybe I should clarify what I mean by soft, the poop comes out as a whole but when I pick it up with poopie bag it just feels softer to the touch than normal by a little, it's not runny at all) and the burping. She did the burping before, similar to what you said when she puts her legs up on me or if I pick her up is mostly when it happens but on occasion she's not really doing much of anything and she just burps.

kjc 04-12-2010 09:29 AM

Okay. Thank you. Mine won't eat the high dollar, good-for-them-treats, so I resorted to Gerber's Graduates Puffs, bc they are nutritionally deplete and great for training. The main thing I have found is some companies use ethoxyquin (a preservative) which can have adverse effects on a dog, and is toxic. I used to feed that semi-soft burger-cheese stuff (occasionally), Ol' Roy's and Purina makes it. I think the Purina's contains the ethoxyquin, and the Roy's doesn't. (I may have that mixed up).

Just a suggestion: Have a camera ready to record any weird behavior for your vet, if she does happen to do it again. No video? Take a few rapid rapid succession stills for him/her to see.

Also, if she gulped any of those treats she could have a very slight, partial blockage, and you would see poop in different consistencies, but in the same movement. It may just have taken longer to get through her system than the other foods she eats.

Did your vet do an xray? No need to answer that, but I think that would be a next step before an endoscopy (or special gastro equipment).... Less invasive, less expensive, and can give quite a bit of info...

Lolli_lah 04-12-2010 12:09 PM

Not sure what you mean by "and you would see poop in different consistencies, but in the same movement." It has been well over a week and a half since she ate the treats, though. I am kind of worried that it is her food, too. The vet said to try the food again and we could always go to some sort of gastro i/d type of food. I don't know.

Because well she was always fine before, her stools were firm and never runny or soft and she never had vomitting problems or discomfort with rear in air type thing, but she did on occasion have a little mucus in the stool. Just very little and it wasn't all the time, just on occasion.

So today she poopied and it was still soft, and a little mucus this time (no blood) where there wasn't any mucus since she was sick and to now. So I am worried either she ate something off the floor she shouldn't have or it is the Wellness food. I'm going to call the vet in the morning.

I do know they don't have endoscopy equipment at the particular vet I go to. I don't know what we'd do in the instance of it being a necessary step because he said right now (and also a few posters mention that it not yet necessary) that we don't necessarily need to do that yet. If we can find a diet that helps her to be all healthy again then we will find the answer. Luckily so far she seems ok except the poop thing. I hope we can get her up to normal soon.. I'm so sick all day worrying about all of this.

kjc 04-12-2010 01:32 PM

As most Yorkies have gastro problems, including my four, I always recommend to Yorkie owners to use a probiotic. I use this with each meal. It establishes good bacteria in the gut, dosing with each meal maintains the good bacteria, and aids in digestion and the absorbtion of nutrients from the food they eat. It also prevents bad bacteria from taking over, which is a common cause of stomach problems. It also can help with their appetite. Wylie's Mom first told me about this product, she uses it too. Mine were on antibiotics every 2-3 months it seemed like. They haven't had to go on them since I started using this.

Nature's Farmacy - Store - Product Details

Lolli_lah 04-12-2010 01:35 PM

If I started using something like that are there any risks of it making her worse? Would it perhaps make it so I would not have to search through a bunch of food types to find one that doesn't hurt her insides?

kjc 04-12-2010 02:48 PM

No, it won't make her worse (unless she is allergic to cheese/dairy) All the ingredients are all natural. If she is allergic to dairy, there are other probiotics she can use.

These help because when she does get a bug, instead of waiting for the body to natually replenish the gut flora, she'll get new flora with each meal. So episodes that may last a week, may only last a day, or two.

And, yes, I believe it makes them more tolerant of food changes, and able to handle foods that maybe have disagreed with them in the past. It may help them overcome a major problem quicker, and you'll definitely see less incidences of the minor ones.

Ex: Right now, you dog's intestinal health is in question because of taking antibiotics. The AB's have killed all the bacteria in her gut, good and bad. Until that good flora is reestablished, she may have food intolerance issues, ie: the bland diet. Giving her probiotics immediately establishes an environment that is optimal for the complete digestion of food, so she gets more nutrients that her system needs to heal itself.

Whenever a dog has digestion issues, something has occurred to irritate the lining of the intestine, which may become inflamed. This gives the bad bacteria the opportunity to takeover, quickly, and can cause all kinds of problems from vomiting to diarrhea. The steady influx of probiotics stops the bad bacteria in it's tracks and prevents further irritation, so that healing may begin.

kjc 04-12-2010 02:59 PM

Also, Nature's Recipe tout's it's food as being easily digested. You may want to check it out at Petsmart. Mine have done well on it.

Steer clear of any foods that list fish meal as an ingredient, as all fish is initially preserved with ethoxyquin, and supposedly it is burned off in the food manufacturing process, but I have my doubts. All fish meal is made at Diamond food processing, where the Ethoxyquin is added, (or on ships when it is caught), and then the individual food manufacturers buy the fish meal from them. Because they do not add the ethoxyquin, they do not have to list it as an ingredient on their packages.

Lolli_lah 04-12-2010 03:52 PM

Thanks this is useful information that I will take into consideration. Is there any type of probiotic supplement I could perhaps purchase at a pet store? The only thing about ordering online is that I can't go right now to get it, I will be waiting a few days and if it's something to help her I want it right now.

As far as food right now she is on Wellness Simple Solution rice & lamb. No fish and the ingredients dont list and 'meal'. So I guess that's a plus. I still think it might be the food somehow.

Also I have just had a thought. What about parasites? Are those something commonly found? Like Giardia or something like that? Would her stool symptoms match anything along that line? I am a bit concerned why my vet never mention anything like these things. Do you think he's just trying to figure out if it's a diet issue first before proceeding more? Because he did say we should come back in about 10 days.

kjc 04-12-2010 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lolli_lah (Post 3082384)
Thanks this is useful information that I will take into consideration. Is there any type of probiotic supplement I could perhaps purchase at a pet store? The only thing about ordering online is that I can't go right now to get it, I will be waiting a few days and if it's something to help her I want it right now.

As far as food right now she is on Wellness Simple Solution rice & lamb. No fish and the ingredients dont list and 'meal'. So I guess that's a plus. I still think it might be the food somehow.

Also I have just had a thought. What about parasites? Are those something commonly found? Like Giardia or something like that? Would her stool symptoms match anything along that line? I am a bit concerned why my vet never mention anything like these things. Do you think he's just trying to figure out if it's a diet issue first before proceeding more? Because he did say we should come back in about 10 days.

For a probiotic, you can buy Benebac at Petsmart or Petco.

For food, I'd try a midrange protein level, considering her age and history.
Like 15-23% protein.

It wouldn't hurt to have her checked for parasites. This is gross but best: Collect 3 or 4 different BM's from her over 2-3 days, needs to be stored in the refrigerator. Then mix it together so you have a portion of each BM. Some parasites slough intermittently, so it'll be more accurate to test this way and only pay for two tests, request a flotation and a direct smear. Just tell them you are concerned bc you don't know the dog's history and you would feel better if they would check for everything.

If she presented with vomiting, it would be logical for him to investigate diet first. Usually with parasites, she may show weight issues (low weight or bloatedness), or diarrhea.

Maybe make a list of your concerns to discuss with him on the return visit.

Lolli_lah 04-12-2010 06:44 PM

Yeah. The vet is very good at what he does, he even specialize in yorkies.. but the problem is when he talks to me I don't seem to understand a full instruction, you know what I mean? Like he didn't seem to be very clear on what I should be doing for diet, then it was the weekend so a call back to be sure wasn't an option.

So I'm hoping it's nothing too serious, diet control can eventually be 'in' control just a matter of finding it. But something more serious I fear, but we ruled out kidney and liver problems from the blood panel. So that was a plus. She didn't show any sign of discomfort in the abdomen area or anything and I guess that's how they can test pancreatitis. There was no xrays or anything taken, though. He just wanted to try diets first.

I took away the kibble again to perhaps see if her stool will look any better. I don't know if this is good or not but it's the only thing I can think of to try to figure out what food is making her stools weird until I get in contact with the vet. Is it possible that even the rice could be?


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