CGC test requires collars for all dogs!
 

Am I the only one this infuriates?

Courtney (c101Yorkie) just put Sapphire through a test to become a therapy dog through Therapy Dogs United. Part of their testing requirement is for the dog to pass the Canine Good Citizen test. But AKC, which administers that, requires that all dogs wear a buckle collar around the neck. Harnesses are not allowed.

So if you've got a Yorkie with a sensitive neck, you're forced to take a chance. And during the testing, they do a distraction test where the dog is deliberately startled.

AKC does have a way around it, but it requires that a vet certify that the dog has an "extreme" injury.

Here's AKC's rule on that. I'd be interested in your thoughts:

“Owner states Vet will not allow dog to wear collar. If the dog has an extreme medical condition and the owner is unable to participate using the collars listed, the AKC needs a signed statement from the Veterinarian (on their letterhead) explaining the medical condition. This can be provided to the AKC CGC testing official at the time of testing. The statement needs to include verification that the dog’s medical condition is so severe that he/she is not medically able to use a thin slip lead for a period of about 10 minutes (the estimated time it takes to complete the Canine Good Citizen Test). The AKC believes that a dog trained and ready for the CGC test will not pull or put pressure on the trachea. If the dog’s medical condition is verified, and it is suggested by a professional Veterinarian to forgo the approved collars, the Canine Good Citizen test can be given in the harness. However, absolutely no pulling on the harness is permitted, and will be grounds for failure.”

Yorkies and other breeds with delicate necks should be allowed to wear the harness! There's a reason why they aren't wearing a collar, so why should they to take a test? After the test, they are free to go back to the harness. I don't think it makes any sense... And why risk the "extreme injury" part? If the dog's neck isn't hurt, and they make you test with the collar and then they do get injured, well, that's just not right. And who would be responsible? The owner because they can't stop their dog from choking itself? Or AKC, who won't let the dog test without risking being hurt? I think AKC should be responsible if something were to happen. Especially during the separation part. I wouldn't be there to try to stop Sapphire from choking, but the person in there is told to just hold the end of the leash and let Sapphire do whatever, including choking herself constantly... :(

It is so strange that you post this today. Last night was my first night of obedience training (no dogs the first week so I guess it was human training 101), My main concern was when I found out it was required for them to have either a choke collar or a prong collar! Now, maybe that's fine for a Lab puppy who weighs 60 lbs. but my Brandi is 10 times smaller and she wears a harness only. I had to talk to the teacher after class and I explained that she is a Yorkie, and her neck is only this big, and she said to me "Well, I've seen them on Chihuahuas - I know they make them that small" and I told her I knew that too, but that isn't the issue. She said they can't be trained with a harness, and unless there was a medical reason, she needs this collar - so I told her the medical reason is she is prone to a collapsed trachea and/or pinched nerves, etc. (as with the whole yorkie breed) so she finally said "Fine" ... I just can't see pulling a yorkie around with a metal prong collar! It's just not right. :mad:

GOOD FOR YOU! That same thing happened with the first few obedience classes Eddie took. I was ignorant at the time and did it. Eddie now has issues and chokes when he's on a collared leash. You can never be sure, but I feel in my gut that that at least contributed to his problems.

We took 3 or 4 classes with a collar, and have since taken about a dozen with a harness. He does fine. I've even taken him through a couple rally courses in a harness, and the instructors watching said he did terrific. No pulling. And no choking. He also passed the Delta Society therapy dog test twice in harness.

My new obedience instructor has never even questioned it.

A suggestion: Normally instructors advocating collars also advocate "corrections," or short tugs on the leash. I would lean against that too. Instead, get your dog to pay attention to you by dangling treats or a favorite toy.

Thanks! I was worried about the harness because everyone keeps telling me that the training doesn't work right with one, and that it actually encourages them to pull, etc. My Brandi does fine on a harness when we are just walking around, and since she is ALWAYS in a harness, then she should be trained with one. It just makes more sense. Thanks for the encouragement. I hope she does well. I want to get her into agility because she is a natural. She's a high jumper, and she's fast. I don't think ANY place should demand they wear a certain collar - it's my dog not theirs, and if she injures her trachea, who pays the vet bill? Therefore, I should be making the decisions. I was ready to leave until the trainer finally agreed to let her wear the harness. Most of the dogs are large breed dogs, except for a Westie, Brandi is the only small breed dog there.

Shame Shame Shame on AKC! They of all organizations should know the ricks associated with putting a collar on a toy breed.

:thumbup: Agreed!

This isn't a leash connected to a collar......a slip lead is physically slipped over the dog's head like a show lead. It's worn higher than a typical collar and not against their tracheas...it's placed under their chin at the top of their throat.

Small breeds in shows don't wear harnesses and suffer no ill effects. I tend to agree a dog obtaining their CGC certification has been trained to heel at your side...not pull on a lead.

I was wondering about that, thanks. My contention would be why test them on a collar that you're not using in everyday life? Unless you decide to switch to a slip collar, it's a false certification.

As for pulling in the tests, the test is all about seeing how the dog reacts to surprises. They might make a loud bang. They have to walk up to another person and dog. They're left with a stranger while you walk away. While the goal is for them not to pull, unless your dog is exceptional, there's going to be some pulling. The ones that get over it quickly are the ones that pass.

And, Stacy. The downside is that harnesses can promote pulling. You have to work harder as a trainer to avoid it.

I see but if you have the slip lead placed correctly...it's still not around their trachea...it sits much higher.

Wow that's interesting Mike as when Izzy took her CGC test we used the harness but we also were able to take the test where she took all her puppy training classes. I wonder if it's where you take the test?

She was also in a harness while passing therapy via Delta Org. We were never questioned about the harness.

I think I'm going to try one of those out. Thanks. I've never liked the looks of them, but I know the Dog Whisperer does. I may just be reacting out of ignorance. Of course, that would be a first. :p

Yeah, Cyndi, that was my experience as well. Our local CGC testers were not sticklers to the collar rule and tested him in a harness. It is a rule, though.

Neither Delta nor Therapy Dogs United require it in their testing.

Hey, bchgirl, do you use slip collars on your dogs for daily walks or just show? And, yes, I'm setting you up for an I TOLD YOU SO. My main gripe with the CGC test is requiring a dog to use a collar that they don't use in everyday life.

You don't really expect me to answer that question now do you?

I've only used the slip lead with Frazier...he's never been on a regular leash.

There are leads which are called kindness leads...they have a silk strap that goes beneath the chin. If your show friends show small breeds...I bet you could borrow one.

Show Tech Silk Toy Show Leads - Cherrybrook

I think I'm going to try this. I may have bettter luck than with the harness.

That is a really stupid rule!!!

First: That can hurt the neck! :thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

Second: How good is the dog's going to performed if he isn't use to the leash?

:rolleyes: Not impress!!!

Who come up with those stupid rules.

AKC should know better!

It's not placed on the trachea and dogs in AKC events only use slip leads.

Everything I've read about choke chains and prong collars is that they are dangerous even for a large dog. I think it is cruel. Brady went for obedience training and the trainer suggested I put the harness on him after I told him about the dog before him who had trachael collapse really bad. I originally posted the note about using a harness and this was meant for the average person who takes their dog for a walk and it doesn't matter to the Average person what the rules are for training a therapy dog. How the therapy dog trainers got involved in this is a mystery to me. I used to watch the "Dog Whisperer" but after I found out he used a choke collar I stopped watching it. Brady trained beautifully with the harness.

Am I the only one confused because I thought this thread started by Alaska was about testing and collars required by the AKC?:confused:

Guess I came in during the middle of these posts somewhere so didn't get the whole thing.

No I take that back. I posted about it myself because my dog before Brady had tracheal collapse.