Sick puppy need advice
 

Hello everyone, I have just joined this site while researching information on my 9 month old yorkie, Charlie Brown. He started acting a little unbalanced Saturday, I just thought he had a long day playing outside and did not think to much about it until Sunday. When we woke he was acting as if he was drunk, walking sideways and just could not balance well. I took him to the vet this morning and she ran blood work and checked his liver and said everything was fine. She mentioned she thought it might be neurological and I have done some research and frankly it scares the heck out of me, mostly because I do not know what we should expect from here. I picked him up after work and will take him back to the vet tomorrow while I am at work, I am not sure what she intends to do from here but I feel better knowing he will be there while I am at work. I have a three year old female, Lucy and have not had any problems with her so I am new to the diseases/sickness of yorkies, any advice, prayers and ideas would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Charlie, Lucy & Tonya

What test did she perform to rule out liver shunt? LS doesn't always show up in a blood panel until there is significant damage done to the liver. He needs a bile acid test...and the results of that will determine whether additional testing is needed.

LS isn't fatal...many many dogs have LS treated surgically and live...long healthy lives afterward.

I'm sorry Charlie Brown is sick.

Did you know that Yorkies are 36 times more likely to have a liver shunt than all other breeds combined?

Charlie Brown absolutely needs to get a bile acids test.

Here is some information for you:

Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

PSVA and MVD Research Summary

Thanks for info
 

The bile acid test was on my list for questions tomorrow. I will continue researching tonight and learn everything I can so I can go in there informed at least. I will check out the sites provided and keep you informed of our progress. The part I find odd is his drunken actions are not constant, does this mean anything? He will be all wobbly and then he tears out like nothing is wrong with good balance, is this normal?

Do you mean consistent with LS? Yes, symptoms can wane. Some dogs are totally asympomatic too.

You definitely have my thoughts and prayers, for your baby...Charlie Brown (cute name). How much does he weigh? What does he eat, and does this drunken like state happen after meals? I would also be concerned about AAI...ask your vet about this too. Good luck, I hope you find out what is causing this and that it is very treatable.

Yes, that is typical. Do you notice he seems worse after a meal?

How much protein is in the food you are feeding him? If his liver is damaged, it can't process the ammonia found in animal proteins. Red meat is the worst.

Charlie weights approximately 4 lbs. he had been eating science diet dog food except for the past two months has been eating purina dog chow. I am thinking we will go back to the science diet tomorrow as we had no problems. The past couple of days I have boiled chicken for him as he was not interested in his dog food. I will definitely evaluate his diet since this has happened. I have many questions for the vet tomorrow and she will get to observe him and test tomorrow, I am just trying to get all info possible as I feel ignorant on the subject at this time, will definitely know more as time goes by and I appreciate all your help and concern.

Dogs with LS feel sick after eating and it may be the cause of his lack of interest in his food.

Keep us updated.

Charlie's status
 

We took Charlie back to the vet this morning, the test performed yesteday were Chem 12 and CBC. I did not talk to the veternarian at this point, only the tech, I asked about the bile acid test and she said she cannot remeber ever doing one at this office. I also, had her make note of the Charlie's food change, just grabbing at all possibilities. The tech mentioned White Shaker disease, does anyone have any knowledge on this subject? She did tell me that they had given Charlie some Valium yesterday and asked if that seemed to help. I thought he was somewhat better but by far not his jovial self, still bouts of unbalance and drunkeness. He wanted to play but could tell that he was not up to the task just yet.

Did they give you the results of the chem 12 panel? Sometimes the bun is off in liver compromised dogs and often times liver function shows in normal range simply because there isn't enough damage present yet. He really needs to have a bile acid test performed and then proceed from there.

There are many vets who are not familiar with shunts. You really need to seek out a vet or specialist in this area.

Your vet can also contact Dr. Tobias for more information.

Faculty

ETA - Until LS has been eliminated...I'd be very leary of giving medications. His liver may not be capable of processing the meds.

bchgirl,
Thanks a ton for the info, again I feel ignorant and really appreciate your guidance. I have another Yorkie "Lucy" and she is 3.5 years old and has never had any problems like this so I am truely a newbie here. I find the site you listed very easy to understand and will give me some more knowledge on the subject. The GREAT part is I live in North Alabama just a short drive from the University. I will continue my quest to find out what is wrong and spend some time with the vet this afternoon. I will pass along the info about Dr. Tobias to our vet. Again I can not thank all of you enough for the help in getting this resolved.

If your vet knows nothing about bile acid tests, you need to take Charlie Brown to U of T. You can waste a lot of time and money with a vet who isn't knowledgable about liver disease.

Maltese like my Lady are prone to White Shaker Syndrome. It usually affects white dogs like Maltese, Westie's, etc. as the name suggests. There is a generalized tremor, not loss of balance like Charlie Brown has. Liver shunts are the first thought when a Yorkie exhibits those symptoms, not White Shaker.

I agree it's great...you are so close to one of the premier places that treat LS routinely.

There is a member here Lolasmommy1211 whose dog recently underwent surgery at UT to repair her shunt. She speaks very very highly of them...send her a pm. I'm sure she would be happy to discuss it with you....or use the search feature located in the banner up top. You'll find her posts.

I 100% agree with all that is posted.

This sounds like Liver Shunt or MVD

And as was posted above, you can really start to *waste* a lot of $ and time with a Vet that isn't familiar with Liver Disease.

#1 - a Bile Acid Serum (BAT) needs to be done. If your Vet doesn't know what this is or hasn't done too many, then pls call around for another more experienced Vet.

#2 - If you are close enough to U of Tenn - GO THERE ASAP - You will get the most accurate results that are very timely and cost effective.

No more boiled chicken.

At this point SD and Purina are NO GOOD for him.

Can you get Natural Balance - Veggie formula ??? - until you get more LS results

Latest News
 

Just got off the phone with the vet tech and she said Charlie was ready to go home, the tech said the vet would talk with me when I get there this afternoon. She said she told the vet all the info I had given and questions I had asked and the determination is White Shakers Syndrome. That she would send me home with a script for valuim. She also said all the test that they had done would have showed something if it were LS. I will see what she has to say when I get there.

OK, that being said, I will give her the chance to convience me this afternoon. However, at this point my thoughts are get him on some better food immediately, low protein, (I will look for the Natural Balance). I probably will not get the valium filled, as I do not think it fits her description of what is wrong, however, I am not the vet and am openminded at this point. The next step will be to contact my previous vet and see what he says, I had to change because I moved but at this point I would consider driving. At the same time try to contact U of T (and lolasmommy) and see what are our options. Will Charlie become more stable just through diet alone? I am wondering what time frame I have with working with this, I do not intend on dragging it out? I just wonder what changes might occur prior to getting him treated.

Sorry, but I do not buy the WSS and I certainly would not give Valium to a 4 lbs dog that has NOT 100% ruled out for Liver Shunt, MVD or liver disease. And I would be very PISSED that they had already given valium to him.

If they have NOT done a Serum Bile Acid test - then they can NOT 100% rule out LS - and this is the next thing that needs to be done.

Change the diet = YES

Too much protein and the wrong protein cause these symptoms in LS babies. Their livers can not properly do their job and they allow toxins to enter his blood stream and go straight to his brain, causing headaches, sickness and that drunken state.

I agree with you that you should contact you old Vet and U of Tenn :thumbup:

I agree! Valium should never be given to a dog suspected of liver disease as it is processed through the liver! :thumbdown

Dogs can have normal bloodwork and elevated bile acids. A Yorkie presenting with Charlie Brown's symptoms should have a bile acids test asap since shunts are so common in Yorkies.

Diagnosing Charlie Brown with White Shaker Dog Syndrome is ridiculous IMO. The main symptom is a generalized tremor:

White Shaker Dog Syndrome

Change Charlie Brown's diet and get him to U of T ASAP.

Want a third opinion? Since you've said you are close to UT...I'd call them and make an appointment.

I think you have to be referred, and depending on how my visit this afternoon goes whether I get her to refer me or I get in touch with my old vet to refer me. I will check more into later this evening. I have their number and will call after work today.

There is a member here that has a Yorkie that was diagnosed with WSDS...just can't for the life of me remember her name...sorry. But she actually has a video of her dog during one on his episodes...maybe you could watch that and see if it looks at all similar to what you're seeing in Charlie Brown.
Do not give the Valium to him until LS is ruled out, if at all.
Ask your vet for a copy of the blood test results done so far, if you go to another vet...maybe these will not have to be repeated...they are very basic test, nothing specialized for LS. And by all means find a vet that will do the Bile Acid test...now.
Depending on those results, a C Reactive Protein test should follow. If it is indeed LS...waste no more time get him in at Univ. of Tenessee before doing anything else.
Good luck, and wish you well.

Great Advise, I hope you contact Dr Tobias. You need a Acid Bile Test and Protein C..Let us know but get a Third Opinion....

Great News! As of yesterday Charlie Brown is fine. The vet still says it is WSS and sent him home with Valium, however, based on the advice here I did not give it to him. I called U of Tenn., and you have to be refered by a vet. I plan to go visit my old vet this saturday and see what he says. Is it possible that he just ate something that may have been poisonous? We were outside most of the day saturday and although I kept a watch on him, I did not keep all eyes on him 100% of the time. I am concerned about what has happened but will leave it as unknown if it means he is better. Charlie Brown and I want to thank all of you for your support and advice and will keep you posted as to our outcome.

If he had ingested something toxic, it would have showed up on his bloodwork. A liver shunt is the most likely cause of his symptoms just because they are so common in Yorkies today. I am glad you are taking him to U of T. They will get to the bottom of it.

Keep us posted.

I just wanted to wish you good luck with Charlie Brown.
I hope all works out well.

Yea for Charlie Brown, I really am glad he is feeling better. Best of luck, wish him well!!!