Could RAW not be good for everyone
 

I have debated long enough on whether I should post this or not . . .but am seriously in need of HELP. :(

When I first heard about this, I thought I should give my furbbies a try . .. afterall, I have heard nothing but positive feedback and great reviews. . . Both mine have been on EVO dry kibble mixed with a little bit of wetfood (Evangers or Merrick) . .I have had no problems or any signs of health issues since they've had this diet . . .both started with Innova so it was just natural for me to move to EVO . . .So I just finished whatever they had and then started them on the Natures Variety raw medallions. Since they have started, I have noticed no difference for the better on Tiger's coat like everyone says . . .he has a great coat as it was so did not see any improvement at all in that area . . .he continues to be heallthy so I am not to concerned. It is Annika who I have seen such drastic changes over the few months that they have started on this diet . . . She has been scratching soooo much and now I am seeing loss of hair - quite a bit . . .I have really not done anything different to their grooming requirements or diet other than this huge change. When I brought it to the doctor's attention, they suggested I do a process of elimantion on what they are eating/grooming products to see what is causing Annika to scratch so much, even more so now than we first started on RAW :( Her coat has lost all sheen and it just keeps falling off where she has been scratching a lot. Her underbelly is completely shaved and her legs are starting to lose more hair as well. :( . . . I tried to shift Annika to beef as both have been eating chicken for the longest time . . with no change after 6 weeks . .I took of the fruits, then the veggie next and then cottage cheese . .still no improvement. I change her shampoo/conditioner to oatmeal and still no improvement . . .and the only thing I could think of is how it all kinda started . . .with eating RAW . . . I am now wanting to try to get them both back to their old diet to see if this will bring back the luster and hair of my baby Annika's hair . . she has always had a really nice coat :( . . . it used to grow so fast . . . if I was to switch them back, how do I do this without upsetting their stomach so they don't have diahrea . . . .

I would love any feedback or suggestion on how to transition them back to their old diet . . .hope someone can help me out . . .:(

We tried RAW for over 3 months. I loved the idea, but Missy wasn't all that fond of it and my vet was totally against it. I switched her to homecooking and she's doing great. I too never noticed a difference in her coat with the raw. I did however notice she had nice breath and much smaller poops. :)

I feed both my boys Primal raw, so I obviously believe in it. HOWEVER, I DO believe that raw is NOT good for all dogs.

I would absolutely switch mine off if something wasn't going right. Start adding a tablespoon of kibble to their raw and gradually increase.

Have you been to the vet and had anything medical ruled out? I would get blood work done along with Thyroid testing and anything else your vet recommends. Poor Annika! She is such a doll!

It's tough to say whether this is from diet or not. It could be seasonal and/or environmental. Did the vet do a skin scraping or a fungal culture? Bc the hair loss is odd to me - and that's not usually diet related.

The only way to tell if it's from raw is to switch back, like you mentioned. Why not try giving kibble for one meal, raw for the other - try for 3 days - if no symptoms, do a hard switch.

How is her weight? Where is she itching exactly? Are her eyes runny/stinky/gunky? Any ear smell?

I think the most important thing is to put your dog on whateve he/she does the best on. If it's raw then thats fine, I'm sure it's not for all dogs, but, if they're on a kibble that they're doing good on, and their hair looks good, why would you change? I guess it's going to have to be up to you as to whether you keep them on it or put them back on their kibble. You may be happy enough with the raw you'd want to keep the 2 that are doing well with it on it and put the other one back on kibble.

I think I will try this . . .I just hate for them to have an upset stomach . . .

it was the vet who suggested I do a process of elimination as this is NOt costly and not too painful on her . . .:(

the hair loss is happening around the area where she is scratching, so she still has hair on her back and facial hair . . .:(

now that you asked about her eyes, she always has a bit of it but just have been noticing more gunck and wet in that area . . . the changes has been gradual so was not as noticeable until you ask me about it . . .

having 2 different diet plans is too much work for me . . . . UNLESS I see it is to the other's advantage to continue to do so, then I don't mind at all the extra work . .but Tiger's coat has not improve for the better . .he has a good coat though and that has NOt changed at all with the shift from kibble to Raw . .

both mine have always had a great appetite . . .so the switch was an easy transition. I definitely LOVe the little poop and much harder . . .

How is homecooking different? maybe i can do that instead?

Pollen in your area is med-high: http://pollen.com/forecast.asp

So, it could be related to that -- but really, if you want to truly know whether or not it's raw, I'd take her off of it - that way you know the answer to at least that question. :)

What you describe with the loss of sheen and hair loss...are symptoms of a thyroid disorder. I'd have her thyroid checked.

I agree that it does sound like this.
Of course, I am a PMR feeder so I do think it's the best but I do admit that it may not be for certain dogs and even for certain people. But if you think of it, if she's having an allergic reaction to the raw, I would think the kibble would have the same response, after all beef chicken etc is in kibble along with a lot of other things that are more likely to cause allergies.
Are you seeing any of the other wonderful results of raw like increased energy, cleaner teeth, tinier poos etc?
It could be that raw is not for you and that's ok, I know you will do the best you can for your babies!

could they get this even if they are 99% indoor dogs? sadly I haven't had time at all to take them for a walk in a long time :( so my entire house is their only place to run around :p

I think that is the most economical way to see if it really is related to their RAW diet . . .:(

really? :( oh now you are making me nervous . . . :( I hope not . .the loss of hair though is happening on the areas where she is scratching but her hair luster sure isn't the same as it used to be . . .

well on the poop, yes :thumbup: but not with their teeth . . .Tiger needs his teeth cleaned AGAIN and so does Annika :( . . .Tiger has always been energetic and Annika is the opposite (laid back :D) . . .so I guess no unusual change in that area

It's easily treated....she'd simply take a pill every day.

would that be for life? I know my hubby does :(

I have been consulting with a allergist for my Bichon. She said that the NV has eggs in it and it could be the cause for the itching and loosing hair. So, that could be part of the problem. It also could be pollen, as it can be brought in the house by people, so they can have a reaction to it even if they don't go outside.

Raw is absolutely not good for every dog or every owner.
No diet is...
I wouldn't feed my dog raw but that doesn't mean I'm right either.
Based on what I've read, it is my opinion.

That said, this could be related to the diet, so I would switch her back to the old diet and see. However, it could be something else too and if the diet change doesn't work, she needs blood work and a skin scraping.

Des, I'm sorry baby Annika isn't doing well. I would definitely have her thyroid checked. Dry itchy skin and hair loss were two big problems for Alex before he was diagnosed as hypo-thyroid. He takes one pill a day and what a difference!

As to the raw, I feed it to mine and have noticed a huge difference in my older guys teeth and coats. However, I had fed them Science Diet and Iams for years (I didn't know any better before YT :() and I believe that finally switching them to a good healthy diet in general (not just the raw specifically) was a big factor in the change I saw. Since you were already feeding an excellent food, yours probably already had a very healthy coat so you wouldn't have seen the changes I saw in my guys. Raw works great for my dogs and we all love it, but I don't think it's the right food for 'every' dog.

Good luck, and please get that thyroid checked!

I agree... :thumbup: I havent feed RAW, its just not for me but if your dog is having these issues since youve made the switched it is probably the food. I had Tucker on TOTW brand dog food not long after I got him and he went from having a shiny, fluffy, puppy coat to having a dry, rough, no shine coat. However I didnt relize how bad it was untill I had him shaved down and his coat underneath was so soft. After I switched his food his coat went back to normal.

Awww, poor little Annika! Des, it IS kind of funny that Annika has ALWAYS been fine and she just started scratching and losing hair once you started her on the Raw diet. My theory is, "why mess with a good thing?" ;) If they were both doing great on their previous kibble, then I think that is exactly what you should stick with/go back to. She wasn't itching or scratching and her coat was nice...she was doing well on it and she liked the food, not mention, the food itself is great....so why switch ;) I would put them both back on it....hopefully it will all go back to normal after you do :)

P.S. - Tatum scratched quite a bit while on Raw too :( It was just so odd to me...

DES! Don't you DARE say that!! YOU??? A bad mommy!?!? NEVER!! You are a GREAT mommy to your babies! :hug: They love you soo much and I know you are head over heels in love with them! :) You have never ever been a bad mommy to them a day in your life! You only switched because you hear everyone talking about it and you wanted to try them on it to BETTER them :) Unfortunately, it didn't work out for Annika but that's ok :) You would never have known if you didn't try it! It happens....no biggie :) She will be back to her normal self in no time I'm sure! ;) :thumbup:

A holistic vet would be nice....geez, I'd give anything if only we had one here! :(

I am soooooo glad somebody else also raised this issue because I thought that I was crazy.

The symptoms that you are describing are almost exactly what my dog has started to experience once I started feeding her raw. The only exception is that she has no hair loss. She used to have a perfect long silky coat that would almost never mat. After switching her to raw, her coat started matting crazy. She also started having almost like a dandruff looking flakes on her tummy. Her eyes used to have no gunk, but after I switched her, they became significantly more watery.

With all that said, I really don't know what to do with her. She LOVES her raw food. She is seriously obsessed with it. I've never seen her being that crazy about her food.

The reason I switched her in the first place was because of her sensitive stomach. She used to be on California Natural for sensistive stomachs dry mixed in with Merrick canned food twice a day. She would have a variety of stools on this diet ranging from perfect to soft to a full blown diarrhea with a typical once a month accident of her throwing up. With all that, her coat and mood has always been fine on it.

I figured that people liked raw because it is allegedly better for dogs's sensitive stomachs to digest uncooked meat than the one cooked.

I read Dr. Pittcarn's book on dog's diet and he recomends an allergy diet there that consists of raw ground lamb or turkey and brown rice mixed in with Ca supplement, multivitamin and vitamin c powder. That's what I used to give her. She loved the taste. She was full of energy. Her stools improved dramatically. They were perfect. But.... her coat became a mess.

It is not as shiny and very matted. I brush her religiously every night and wash her every week with Cranberry Fields Oatmeal shampoo and conditioner. So, I don't think it causes any problem. I am actually positive that it does not because the routine has not changed in a while. Only diet did.

It almost seams to me that she started excreting something by her skin that causes her to mat more after I switched her diet.

So, now I don't know what to do. How can I have her stomach and her coat to be better at the same time.

Any thoughts?

I just read something in the vet's office that surprised me. It said the primay things dogs can be allergic to, in order, are:

- Beef, followed by other types of meat
- Dairy
- Wheat.

I was really surprised that oatmeal was not on the list, because I've read that as a potential allergen here many times. I always try to stay away from oatmeal shampoo, or giving Thor oatmeal. I think I may try it now, though.

Anyway, perhaps that is a reason that raw doesn't work for some dogs?

ChicagoSoul - what you're describing makes me wonder if your baby has a fatty acid deficit/imbalance. Are you giving those - or - is their diet supplying them? I'd recommend trying Ark Naturals Royal Coat - it has the fish oil (EPA/DHA), but also has GLA and LA, which are esp. great for coat/skin (and LA is the "essential" one); it also has vit a/d/e - so you wouldn't need to add the extra E yourself. I love this stuff.

I am adding a complete mutlivitamin with her food. So, I assume that a multivitamin has to have the proper balance of fatty acids, shouldn't it?

No, it probably has very little - but more than likely doesn't have any at all.