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-   -   Why DON'T you feed your Yorkie raw? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-health-diet/166352-why-dont-you-feed-your-yorkie-raw.html)

MyFairLacy 03-20-2009 09:54 AM
I was feeding only Natures Variety raw for over two years. I tried prey model raw for a short time but stopped. I still feel like prey model is great if done correctly, but it is so time consuming and the dogs faces got nasty. However, using prepackaged raw is very convenient. All you do is thaw it out and feed. Doesn't take that much longer than pouring out kibble and it's so much better fir your dog. Now I'm feeding homecooked and raw because I spoke with a nutritionist who felt that feeding all raw was too rich for a lot of dogs. So you still get great benefits by feeding some raw and homecooked. I would NEVER feed my dogs any kind of kibble again. There are some decent ones out there but I feel like kibble is just overcooked crap and chemixals in a bag for the most part. I'd feed high quality grain free canned over kibble. I love my dogs and want them to live long healthy lives, and if that means taking more time at feeding time so be it. I could never feed them kibble

Wylie's Mom 03-20-2009 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2532002)
If this is true, why are their recalls for bags that contain salmonella? I mean I think it's important for consumers to be aware of the possibility and always wash their hands after handling dog food, but where did you get the information that it is in all dog food?
I think bc there is an acceptable "threshold" for salmonella - just like for almost all spices, there is an acceptable threshold for insects/insect parts (I know, yuck).

The info is from a bunch of places, but most notably from the CDC (Centers for Disease Control).

phfgkl 03-20-2009 10:00 AM
2 very good articles

Mars said salmonella can cause serious infections in dogs and cats and, if there is cross contamination caused by handling of the pet food, in humans also

FOXNews.com - Dry Dog Food Recalled for Possible Salmonella Contamination - Pet Health | Questions | Information | Animal Health


Salmonella Outbreak Tied to Dry Dog Food Continues - US News and World Report

PennysMum 03-20-2009 10:00 AM
Convenience. That's honestly all it is for me, though I hate to admit it. I bet raw would be even cheaper than the fru-fru grain-free kibble she gets now.

phfgkl 03-20-2009 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 2532014)
I was feeding only Natures Variety raw for over two years. I tried prey model raw for a short time but stopped. I still feel like prey model is great if done correctly, but it is so time consuming and the dogs faces got nasty. However, using prepackaged raw is very convenient. All you do is thaw it out and feed. Doesn't take that much longer than pouring out kibble and it's so much better fir your dog. Now I'm feeding homecooked and raw because I spoke with a nutritionist who felt that feeding all raw was too rich for a lot of dogs. So you still get great benefits by feeding some raw and homecooked. I would NEVER feed my dogs any kind of kibble again. There are some decent ones out there but I feel like kibble is just overcooked crap and chemixals in a bag for the most part. I'd feed high quality grain free canned over kibble. I love my dogs and want them to live long healthy lives, and if that means taking more time at feeding time so be it. I could never feed them kibble
Feeding raw or any other kind of food period, does NOT mean a dog is going to live a longer or a healthier life. My nephew has had his golden lab on raw for close to 2 years, and that dog has been sicker than any of my dogs ever have been, so I really don't think, myself, that what we feed makes a dog live longer or healthier than anything else. Like us, it's in the genes

Nancy1999 03-20-2009 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 2532016)
I think bc there is an acceptable "threshold" for salmonella - just like for almost all spices, there is an acceptable threshold for insects/insect parts (I know, yuck).

The info is from a bunch of places, but most notably from the CDC (Centers for Disease Control).
The reason I asked, is because in the past nearly all dog food bags have had the words, "wash hands after handling," written on the bag. I was surprised this is not written on some dog food bags anymore. Again, I don't understand why the recalls, if its in all bags normally.

MyFairLacy 03-20-2009 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phfgkl (Post 2532027)
Feeding raw or any other kind of food period, does NOT mean a dog is going to live longer:confused:
Good nutrition is very important to living a healthy long life. Humans who eat well and take good care of themselves live longer on average than humans who do not. So of course dogs who are fed diets that are excellent are going to live longer on average as well.

tumismom 03-20-2009 10:09 AM
Why is it that every food threat always turn into something else. I think kibbles are fine and there are great kibbles out there. But my biggest pet peeve is that when someone gets on here and claim that some bad quality food is the best and give wrong information. And then continued to cause arguments in every thread.

tumismom 03-20-2009 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 2532044)
Good nutrition is very important to living a healthy long life. Humans who eat well and take good care of themselves live longer on average than humans who do not. So of course dogs who are fed diets that are excellent are going to live longer on average as well.
My exact thoughts!!

Nancy1999 03-20-2009 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 2532014)
I was feeding only Natures Variety raw for over two years. I tried prey model raw for a short time but stopped. I still feel like prey model is great if done correctly, but it is so time consuming and the dogs faces got nasty. However, using prepackaged raw is very convenient. All you do is thaw it out and feed. Doesn't take that much longer than pouring out kibble and it's so much better fir your dog. Now I'm feeding homecooked and raw because I spoke with a nutritionist who felt that feeding all raw was too rich for a lot of dogs. So you still get great benefits by feeding some raw and homecooked. I would NEVER feed my dogs any kind of kibble again. There are some decent ones out there but I feel like kibble is just overcooked crap and chemixals in a bag for the most part. I'd feed high quality grain free canned over kibble. I love my dogs and want them to live long healthy lives, and if that means taking more time at feeding time so be it. I could never feed them kibble
I think calling kibble crap isn't necessary, if you feel like it's not a good choice for you, and your dogs, I can appreciate that, but using the word "crap" shows a lack of respect for other peoples choices.

phfgkl 03-20-2009 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2532053)
I think calling kibble crap isn't necessary, if you feel like it's not a good choice for you, and your dogs, I can appreciate that, but using the word "crap" shows a lack of respect for other peoples choices.
:thumbup:

MyFairLacy 03-20-2009 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2532053)
I think calling kibble crap isn't necessary, if you feel like it's not a good choice for you, and your dogs, I can appreciate that, but using the word "crap" shows a lack of respect for other peoples choices.
I'm sorry but that's what I truly feel it is. I don't really care what others feed their dogs. It's their dog and they and their dog are going to be the ones who live with the consequences, not me. I know I'm doing what's best for my dogs so that I'll have them with me as long as possible. I won't feed my dogs that stuff. I will recommend better brands to people because I know a lot of people are just stuck on feeding kibble but I would never feed it

Nancy1999 03-20-2009 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 2532044)
Good nutrition is very important to living a healthy long life. Humans who eat well and take good care of themselves live longer on average than humans who do not. So of course dogs who are fed diets that are excellent are going to live longer on average as well.
While I agree, that a healthy diet is important, there is no evidence to suggest raw is better. I think if there were solid evidence to suggest one diet was clearly better, we wouldn't even be having these discussions. I think there are some pros and cons with all the different diets, and we should all try to find what works for our dogs. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea, that there is only one or two ways that are healthy.

Nancy1999 03-20-2009 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 2532059)
I'm sorry but that's what I truly feel it is. I don't really care what others feed their dogs. It's their dog and they and their dog are going to be the ones who live with the consequences, not me. I know I'm doing what's best for my dogs so that I'll have them with me as long as possible. I won't feed my dogs that stuff. I will recommend better brands to people because I know a lot of people are just stuck on feeding kibble but I would never feed it
I understand that you feel that way, but I don't think it's helpful, just as some of us are told not to describe our "feelings" when talking about raw, i.e. "yuck, gross." I think those of you who believe that kibble isn't a good choice should not use words like "crap". People then get emotional about the whole topic, and any chance for a really informative discussion goes out the window. We should be able to discuss diets unemotionally.

MyFairLacy 03-20-2009 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2532065)
While I agree, that a healthy diet is important, there is no evidence to suggest raw is better. I think if there were solid evidence to suggest one diet was clearly better, we wouldn't even be having these discussions. I think there are some pros and cons with all the different diets, and we should all try to find what works for our dogs. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea, that there is only one or two ways that are healthy.
I don't feel like raw is the only way or best for every dog. Some dogs need special diets like Lacy - she needs a diet lower in fat and an all raw diet is too high for her. So I have been homecooking her a diet that a nutritionist formulated for her needs. Eventually she can have some raw in her diet again too.

Wylie's Mom 03-20-2009 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2532042)
The reason I asked, is because in the past nearly all dog food bags have had the words, "wash hands after handling," written on the bag. I was surprised this is not written on some dog food bags anymore. Again, I don't understand why the recalls, if its in all bags normally.
Yup! And as I understand it - the reason for "wash your hands" is *mostly* bc of the salmonella contained in kibble.

I think the salmonella recalls happen bc the amount of present salmonella has surpassed the acceptable threshold.

Izzy Princess 03-20-2009 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2532065)
While I agree, that a healthy diet is important, there is no evidence to suggest raw is better. I think if there were solid evidence to suggest one diet was clearly better, we wouldn't even be having these discussions. I think there are some pros and cons with all the different diets, and we should all try to find what works for our dogs. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea, that there is only one or two ways that are healthy.
I agree - I say do what's best for you and your doggie. But to say one is better than the other is not fair to anyone. Hey if I kept Izzy on raw just because it was deemed better than kibble she would be dead by now. I had to do what was best for her...even though people think that Science Diet Prescriptions are terrible..well it may be that it has ingredients that are not the best..but for some reason it's keeping Izzy alive and many other pets alive too. (Izzy has pancreatitis and the W/D is the only thing that is keeping her alive right now). We've talked to specialists, etc. and even they who speak about nutrition and home-cooking have pets that are on these special Science Diets.

So again - it's up to what works for you in many ways...cost, convenience, health, etc. But I would never say to anyone on any forum that what they are feeding their pet is bad. You can come on here and say what you feed your pet and that it works for you and we can take it for what it's worth. Do the research, follow your heart and hope for the best. Just my two cents.:D

phfgkl 03-20-2009 10:36 AM
Eveyone is going to have their own opinion on this subject. No one can convince me than Raw is the best, just like no one can convince people that use raw that kibble is the best. But, these kind of things that are associated with raw make me very uncomfortable.
Salmonella can cause infections in dogs and cats. It can also be transferred from pets to people who ingest or handle contaminated products. Children, the elderly, and those with compromised immune systems are most at risk.
To prevent the spread of salmonella contamination, the FDA said consumers should wash their hands for 20 seconds with hot water and soap before and after handling pet foods and treats.
Consumers should also:• Wash pet food bowls, dishes, and scooping utensils with soap and hot water after each use;
• Not use their pets’ feeding bowl as a scooping utensil. Pet owners should use a clean scoop or spoon;
• Dispose of old or spoiled pet food products in securely tied plastic bags and put them in a covered trash cans.
The FDA’s Web site has additional tips on how to safely handle pet food.

Izzy Princess 03-20-2009 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phfgkl (Post 2532096)
Eveyone is going to have their own opinion on this subject. No one can convince me than Raw is the best, just like no one can convince people that use raw that kibble is the best. But, these kind of things that are associated with raw make me very uncomfortable.
Salmonella can cause infections in dogs and cats. It can also be transferred from pets to people who ingest or handle contaminated products. Children, the elderly, and those with compromised immune systems are most at risk.
To prevent the spread of salmonella contamination, the FDA said consumers should wash their hands for 20 seconds with hot water and soap before and after handling pet foods and treats.
Consumers should also:• Wash pet food bowls, dishes, and scooping utensils with soap and hot water after each use;
• Not use their pets’ feeding bowl as a scooping utensil. Pet owners should use a clean scoop or spoon;
• Dispose of old or spoiled pet food products in securely tied plastic bags and put them in a covered trash cans.
The FDA’s Web site has additional tips on how to safely handle pet food.
Izzy is a therapy dog and registered through Delta. She visits the Cleveland Clinic and they will NOT allow ANY dog no matter how trained into the program or in their hospitals if they are on RAW for those reasons postd above. In simple layman terms the hospital's infectious disease specialists told me that if Izzy was on RAW she could pass germs to patients via her tongue if she should happen to lick their hand, etc.

phfgkl 03-20-2009 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy Princess (Post 2532109)
Izzy is a therapy dog and registered through Delta. She visits the Cleveland Clinic and they will NOT allow ANY dog no matter how trained into the program or in their hospitals if they are on RAW for those reasons postd above. In simple layman terms the hospital's infectious disease specialists told me that if Izzy was on RAW she could pass germs to patients via her tongue if she should happen to lick their hand, etc.
I think I had read where you had written that. I'm going to send you a pm

wemple2 03-20-2009 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 2531817)
And that's your prerogative and I respect it.

But ya know, that's exactly how many raw-feeders and homecookers feel about kibble. Personally, I don't quite feel that cut-and-dried about it - I think there are good kibbles out there, dogs can thrive on it, and I support those who choose to feed kibble.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just wish that no matter what diet people choose here, whether kibble/cooking/raw, that others would try to be supportive instead of seeming to imply that what so-and-so is feeding is unsafe and unhealthy. I understand the intent of this thread, and folks are sharing their opinions - but geesh, imagine if someone started a thread called "Why Do you NOT Feed Kibble" - imagine how that thread would go and the kibble-feeders' reactions :rolleyes:!

Just because raw-feeders may be in the minority here, it doesn't mean their chosen diet is wrong, or right - for that matter. But the same really goes for all diets, at this point in canine nutrition. So I guess all we can do is make choices that feel the best for our own dogs and be respectful of others' choices for their dogs. :)
This is exactly why I said in my post "my dog". I respect your choice for your dogs...but at the same time, as I said previously, nothing will convince me to feed raw to my dog. Respect is a two way street, I respect you and expect you to do the same.

adorame 03-20-2009 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy Princess (Post 2532109)
Izzy is a therapy dog and registered through Delta. She visits the Cleveland Clinic and they will NOT allow ANY dog no matter how trained into the program or in their hospitals if they are on RAW for those reasons postd above. In simple layman terms the hospital's infectious disease specialists told me that if Izzy was on RAW she could pass germs to patients via her tongue if she should happen to lick their hand, etc.
My son's Immunologist from Rainbow Babies and Children's Hospital basically said the sam thing to us about the raw feedings. After hearing that, I just felt that Raw was not for us at all to try.

Wylie's Mom 03-20-2009 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wemple2 (Post 2531137)
I just have to say no thanks...no amount of explaining will convince me that this is a safe and healthy thing to do for my dog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wemple2 (Post 2532142)
This is exactly why I said in my post "my dog". I respect your choice for your dogs...but at the same time, as I said previously, nothing will convince me to feed raw to my dog. Respect is a two way street, I respect you and expect you to do the same.
I guess I just didn't find what you said respectful to raw feeders, if we want to split hairs :p. If you posted about your own dog and the kibble you were feeding, and I came in and said "no amount of explaining will convince me that this is a safe and healthy thing to do for my dog" -- would you find that respectful of your choices?

I just feel that most raw feeders are generally very supportive of those who feed kibble, and even help kibble-feeders w/ their choices. But when it comes to the other way around, I don't often see the same acceptance and support.

I mean no offense, Wemple, I'm just stating what I feel/see here toward my own choices. :)

phfgkl 03-20-2009 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 2532176)
I guess I just didn't find what you said respectful to raw feeders, if we want to split hairs :p. If you posted about your own dog and the kibble you were feeding, and I came in and said "no amount of explaining will convince me that this is a safe and healthy thing to do for my dog" -- would you find that respectful of your choices?

I just feel that most raw feeders are generally very supportive of those who feed kibble, and even help kibble-feeders w/ their choices. But when it comes to the other way around, I don't often see the same acceptance and support.

I mean no offense, Wemple, I'm just stating what I feel/see here toward my own choices. :)
Well, except for one poster saying kibble is CRAP. That's not being respectful. Like I've said to each his own, I've posted as to why I think Raw is dangerous and not for us

chachi 03-20-2009 11:27 AM
I just feel that most raw feeders are generally very supportive of those who feed kibble, and even help kibble-feeders w/ their choices. But when it comes to the other way around, I don't often see the same acceptance and support.

That may be because people are not real familiar or educated when it comes to raw diets also

hugz4all4 03-20-2009 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 2531817)
And that's your prerogative and I respect it.

But ya know, that's exactly how many raw-feeders and homecookers feel about kibble. Personally, I don't quite feel that cut-and-dried about it - I think there are good kibbles out there, dogs can thrive on it, and I support those who choose to feed kibble.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just wish that no matter what diet people choose here, whether kibble/cooking/raw, that others would try to be supportive instead of seeming to imply that what so-and-so is feeding is unsafe and unhealthy. I understand the intent of this thread, and folks are sharing their opinions - but geesh, imagine if someone started a thread called "Why Do you NOT Feed Kibble" - imagine how that thread would go and the kibble-feeders' reactions :rolleyes:!

Just because raw-feeders may be in the minority here, it doesn't mean their chosen diet is wrong, or right - for that matter. But the same really goes for all diets, at this point in canine nutrition. So I guess all we can do is make choices that feel the best for our own dogs and be respectful of others' choices for their dogs. :)
:thumbup: good post!! I never said it was wrong, i said it was wrong for me. :D I feel that people should do what they feel is the best for THIER pets and shouldnt be critized at all, whether it be raw, homecooked, expensive kibble or cheap kibble!!

phfgkl 03-20-2009 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugz4all4 (Post 2532193)
:thumbup: good post!! I never said it was wrong, i said it was wrong for me. :D I feel that people should do what they feel is the best for THIER pets and shouldnt be critized at all, whether it be raw, homecooked, expensive kibble or cheap kibble!!
:thumbup:

hugz4all4 03-20-2009 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phfgkl (Post 2531916)
This comment shouldn't just be between raw/kibble, but, kinds of kibble, if you feed something that is a 2 or 3 star, you get jumped all over. Everyone should be able to say what they feed without everyone jumping down thier back
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Izzy Princess 03-20-2009 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adorame (Post 2532164)
My son's Immunologist from Rainbow Babies and Children's Hospital basically said the sam thing to us about the raw feedings. After hearing that, I just felt that Raw was not for us at all to try.
Wow see - they even made me sign an affidavit stating that Izzy was not on RAW and at the time she was on The Honest Kitchen and they did research on that before they let me visit with her. That food was the only freeze dried raw they researched and said it was OK to feed. But then she got sick with the pancreatitis and most of THK food is super high in fat and protein so we can't feed even that to her anymore except the Preference which is just veggies and fruits.:(

tumismom 03-20-2009 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2532190)
I just feel that most raw feeders are generally very supportive of those who feed kibble, and even help kibble-feeders w/ their choices. But when it comes to the other way around, I don't often see the same acceptance and support.

That may be because people are not real familiar or educated when it comes to raw diets also
i totally agree with you..I think there are so many good kibbles out there but i choose to have my girls on premade raw and homecook food. But if other needs help deciding what kind of kibbles to feed, I am there to help them find the good kibbles and also there to explain to them that good food doesn't mean expensive.


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