I agree!!

Wheat can be so tough on these guys. I think Marcel has issues w/ wheat too. Good detective work on that gravy. :thumbup:

Nancy, the one I had thought about getting before I got the solid gold was the pro plan with the salmon, and I didn't see anything bad in it, was wondering what everyone else thought of the ingredients in it, so you were kind of right..;) There were a lot of different pro plan ones, and I went through the ingredients in all of them(on the website) and the one with salmon really didn't look as bad as the rest of them

Lol, I'm often "kind of right." Well, I'm glad you found one you think is healthy, and I hope they enjoy it!

Well, I dont mind speanding a few extra bucks on dog food every month for my dog to be as healthy as possible:rolleyes:

Corn is cheap, It is 1 of the main cause of allergies in dogs regarding pet foods. Corn is a filler.


Because dogs are mainly Carnivorous creatures, and would live healthier with a just meat diet. I choose not to feed my dog mainly corn. Or meat Bi products. I have yet to see a dog or cat in a corn feild hunting a ear of corn:confused: When my uncles dog was eating ol' roy dog food, she would have to eat 10 cups of ol'roy to get the nutrients she now gets in 3 cups of wellness. Commercial brand dog foods, such as purina and the dreaded pedigree are the same thing.

To anybody that has had a vet tell them that pedigree or any other crap foods are just as good, I hope you realize that vets no diddly squat when it comes to nutrition. They learn close to nothing about it in school. And I have heard many vets admit to that.

lol, i DOnt have my puppy yet, but just went on purinas web page (not telling ppl what to do as im quite a newbi when it comes to Yorkie, but because its a nestle company, i boycott them anyways lol, wont have to worry about my pup getting this stuff

Just curious what made you change your mind ??

I just have to say that I do have someone beside myself and I am not single. I do have a husband who travel also. But I just have to say even in this tough economic times, I cannot cut back on cost when it comes to my kiddos diet and nutrition. I pay attention to everything that goes in their mouth. I have to say my girls are very healthy and they don't have to go to vet unless it's time for the annual shots. My hubby feels the same and he doesn't want anything less than the best for the girls. he loves his girls with all his heart and I know he will be very unhappy if i cut the cost on the food. we would instead cut back on other stuff that we spend on them such as clothes or toys or other unneccesary items.

nutrtition is NOT focused on as well as it should be, while vets are in school.. also some vets are paid to represent/sell certain foods, etc.
while you always want to take your vets advice into MUCH consdieration.. food is NOT one thing i would buy from just any vet.. if a vet says your dog needs a special food.. i would take the "special things" needed, do my research and get my food elsewhere! this is just my opinion, though! ;)

:thumbup::thumbup:

this was also on our local news.. they interviewed one vet, and i was cringing the WHOLE time!! :cool: they also did say... if you see dog food on sale at your grocery store and the price seems to good to be true, it probably is! (that was one of the only things i agreed with! :cool:)

:thumbup::thumbup:

:thumbup::thumbup:

I just got done reading this whole post. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE this site. I've learned so much on here, but the thing that really aggravates me if that people think they know everything. The OP posted something that he thought was interesting that he heard on the news. There's absolutely nothing wrong with people feeding their dogs pedigree or purina. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't it's right at all to go pointing fingers at people saying "why would you wanna feed your dog something with corn & byproducts in it?" everyone is different and to be perfectly honest, i do know of people that have had their dogs live long healthy lives being on those foods.

I myself chose to buy a more expensive food. I don't have to, but I chose to because it's what the breeder originally had her on, but just seeing how some people on here argue like that is wrong. People are entitled to their own opinions and shouldn't be knocked for what they're feeding their dog or what kind of decisions they make for their dog. It's things like this that make me not want to be on this site anymore.

I understand where you are coming from, sometimes I feel as if some people are "know-it-all's" on here as well. A lot of people just feel so passionately on the topic that it may come off as rude. I'm sure they really don't mean it to be rude, they are just looking out for the dog's best interests.

:)

You have to remember, I have 6 dogs, and 2 of them are big, they eat 4 cups of food apiece a day. If I only had little ones, the cost wouldn't be a problem, or if I only had 2

i am curious to find out among all the foods that YTers recommend, which brand is the lowest price! ;)

I am so sorry you feel that way :( I myself am not AT ALL intentionally trying to sound like a "know it all" - cause TRUST ME, I'm in no way shape or form a know it all. Actually, to tell ya the truth, I probably don't even know the half of it! :rolleyes: LOL..

BUT, I think the reason this thread was so full of opinions is because the OP said (in the beginning) that the cheap grocery store brand dog foods were just as good as the higher end dog foods - and they're just not. Plain and simple. HOWEVER....You are absolutely 100% CORRECT when you say that we as pet owners can feed WHATEVER we want to our pets...we most certainly can. There is no law telling us what we can and cannot feed our pets - that is a decision that is up to us and us alone. I think it was just frustrating for people to "hear" someone say that Purina or Pedigree or whatever, was "just as good" as the higher quality foods that those of us are feeding our babies, and that we are just waisting our money buying those higher quality foods.

Of course she can feed whatever she wants - no one here can make anyone feed their babies anything they don't want to....that is totally up to the pet owner themselves. Everyone was just stating their opinions here as to what they thought about the different dog foods and obviously we all have very strong opinions on it :)

Purina One has Lamb or Chicken 1st and rice 2nd. That's what I use.

You do not need to be a "Know it all" To know that purina or pedigree is a crappy food. Its just common sense:rolleyes:

Now, Keelysmomma, you seem to know so much at the age of 15, here you go through these ingredients on the salmon and brown rice, and you tell me what you find wrong with it. I did decide to go with another food, but, I really didn't see anything wrong with this salmon and brown rice(and yes, it's made by purina, and no corn in it)

Natural Salmon and Brown Rice Formula - Products - Purina® Pro Plan®

Animal fat can be just about anything; recycled grease from restaurants or an unwholesome "mystery mix" of fats. Animal protein is far inferior to beef protein or chicken protein.



It's just not a good food.

10 secrets comercial pet food companies do not want you to know.
 

1. Pet food is NEVER mostly meat.

Many ads suggest that it is... In order to list a meat source first on the bag label pet food companies resort to a variety of gimmicks. Here are a few to get you thinking.

1st Listing, a "wet" ingredient in what ends up being an essentially dry finished product. Wet meat gets a lot lighter when the moisture is cooked out. This labeling loophole is blatantly deceptive to the general public. All ingredients should be weighed and listed in dry weight equivalents for you to know truly how much of each makes up the ration. If the label lists, "chicken" it means chicken weighed when wet. Drop 75% of the value. If, on the other hand, it says, "chicken meal" they play fairly. If it says, "meat (any type) by-product meal" or "meat (any type) by-products" it was never meat to begin with. Find another food.

Another gimmick is to "split carbohydrates" (grains) into multiple parts to get the "meat" to list first. Label ingredients are listed in descending order by weight. So, If you have 10 lbs. of chicken meal and 25 lbs. of rice, which should appear first on the label? Chicken of course! (if you want people to buy the stuff).
Here's how it's done...

1st- CHICKEN MEAL, 2nd- GROUND RICE, 3rd- RICE BRAN, 4th- RICE GLUTEN.

Pretty sneaky and obviously deceptive unless you know the trick.
Rice Flour, Brewer's Rice and Rice ala Ronny could also have been listed if they really wanted to be fancy. A related tactic is to use a variety of grains with different names to get meat listed first. This is slightly more valid since they have different amino acid profiles and are truly different ingredients. Grains cost a lot less than meat. Meat "by-products" cost a lot less than meat. Both also have considerably less food value. The last gimmick for now is the campaign to convince the public that meat by-products and meat are just about the same thing.
Hmm... "Honey, I'm having a ribeye steak tonight and you're having a nice pile of by-products, ok?" "Would you like the chicken breast or the intestine-cartilage-beak medley with your rice, Bob?" "Well gee Dear, doesn't really make any difference to me, they all sound equally delicious, nutritious and healthy!"

By definition, by-products may contain anything from the specified animal except, (in the case of chicken), feathers and feces and, (in the case of beef), hoof, hide and feces. Meat and fat are separated out first because they are costlier and are therefore not present in any appreciable quantity. What's left is the bones, tendons, cartilage, beaks, feet and innards. Proudly displayed and masqueraded as meat. A pet food bag is not a place for dumping stuff of unknown nutritional value. Some foods even use the term , "SELECT by-products". All these contortions serve one purpose; To make you think that you're getting more meat than you really are in your bag of pet food. After all, who'd pay $35 for a bushel of corn?! Well, keep reading!

2. The cooking process used in pet foods KILLS off a vital component: enzymes.

In order to eliminate bacteria and make cutesy shapes that pets care nothing about, processing temperatures in excess of 160 degress F are used to extrude or bake your pet's food.

So what? Well, glad you asked. This places the entire burden for digestion on your pet's pancreas to supply the enzymes necessary for breaking down nutrients for absorption. In nature, this is far from the case. Animals naturally follow the path of "least digestive resistance" in the wild. Consider the fox who catches a rabbit. First item on the menu is the contents of the gut. Let the rabbit do the digesting and enjoy! The rabbit spent hours nibbling grasses and grains readying them for the fox's easy absorption of carbohydrates. Quick and cheap fuel. Next the fox buries or hides the rest to stew a spell. What we call, "turning rancid" the fox calls, "just getting better". In a couple days, the live enzymes in the rabbit meat have broken it down into easily digested protein. Notice how no fire was used in this process? For dessert, a little bone gnawing for the marrow, the calcium, and the teeth cleaning, and it's naptime. Left for the lower animals in the hierarchy are most of the by-products and the hide.

Let's get back to your pet. In puppies and kittens, the pancreas is usually robust and up to the task of supplying sufficient digestive enzymes to make dead food somewhat useable and fulfill it's other vital functions. With age, however, pancreatic function is weakened and often can't keep up with this undue burden. If the pet food fed day in and day out is of low nutritional value to begin with, the taxing effect on the system will be all the greater and the pancreas will most likely give up that much sooner. The consequences to your pet's health are too broad in scope to cover here.

3. Giving "real food" aka "table scraps" is the RIGHT thing to do!

Stepping on a lot of toes here to smash the myth that you should only feed the stuff from the bag and nothing else ever, PERIOD. What is it they are afraid of anyway? That your pet will learn to beg? Unlearn that. That your pet won't eat the chaff they call "food" after tasting the real deal? Probably. Or that it will throw the delicate balance of their finely tuned "nutrition" out of whack somehow? He He Hoo, hardly.

Here's the scoop... Providing real food (not potato chips or other junk food) in its raw form counteracts some of the deficit that can be caused by only feeding commercially prepared pet food. It can provide the living enzymes to make digestion an easy rather than burdensome process. But, don't just go wild and throw everything in the feeding trough. Good bets for pets are raw carrots, broccoli, yogurt, cheese, garlic and meats. Cooked oatmeal, rice, corn, squash and the like are fine too. Don't feed raw grains, legumes, potatoes, onions, celery or chocolate which are either unusable or unhealthy. If you aren't comfortable with raw meat and fish, don't do it. Keep in mind, they aren't people and have an entirely different gastro-intestinal system than we do. Introduce new foods a little at a time about three times a week to start and give your pet's pancreas a much needed break.

4. Most "vet recommended" foods pay mightily for the "honor".

Does it matter that the majority of vets know very little about pet nutrition? The public is told to, "Ask your vet". The vet is told by the pet food companies, "we'll send you to Hawaii for a week of golf if you sell and endorse XYZ brand pet food". In school, vets-to-be could ELECT to take an overview course in animal nutrition. Or not. There have been changes of late to make this required study. AS IT WELL SHOULD BE!

You are miles ahead if you understand the pet food label yourself and take the time to learn some basic nutritional concepts. It's not that complicated! Find out for yourself, trust your own judgement and ignore what people say who are getting paid to say it.

continued----->


5. The #1 vet recommended brand is probably the #1 worst pet food value.

Without mentioning any names, if it lists corn as the first ingredient on the label and gets blasted by the competition for it, you know the company. Read the label! Compare it to the cheapest stuff you can find. There isn't a dimes worth of difference in most cases.

How much does it cost them to make a 40 lb. bag of this stuff you may wonder? Right? Sit down.
How about less than $3 including the cost of the bag? How much does the duped public shell out for the bushel of corn and peanut shells most recommended by vets? About $35. "Have a nice flight to Maui, Dr. Cutter and thanks again for your support".

6. Feeding "Soft-Moist" diets will cut your pet's life expectancy in half.

Thankfully, these foods are on the steep decline but aren't gone yet. Perhaps killing your customers isn't a good way to develop long term brand loyalty. These toxic morsels are so loaded with chemicals to stay soft and prevent molding and so laden with sugar to cover the harsh chemical taste, they rip a pet's insides out. The sweetness is addictive and you'll hear owners say, "Fifi just won't eat anything else". Well, then better buy the small bag because who knows how long Fifi will be eating at all? Anybody feeding this garbage should stop at once and the manufacturers of it should be faced with a class action.

7. Many companies have "slithered" away from using ETHOXYQUIN.

The once popular, and staunchly defended as safe, preservative (antioxidant) called "Ethoxyquin" has been mostly abandoned because of "hushed" litigation and settlements with professional breeders. It formerly was championed by pet food manufacturers (and others) as an advanced and healthy inclusion in pet food in an attempt to hide the fact that it was never intended to be eaten, much less on a daily basis. It was originally formulated as a rubber stabilizer and a color retention agent. Tires stayed pliable and spices stayed red. Despite efforts to get it approved as a food stabilizing agent in people food, it is only allowed for extremely limited application with colored spices. The people who know the devastating truth about this ingredient when eaten daily by pets have been paid off and forced to never tell their stories. There are innumerable instances of stillbirth, sudden liver failure, kidney dysfunction, permanent pigment changes, tumors and death thought to be caused by the addition of this wonder substance to pet food starting in about 1987. Much of the talk about ethoxyquin has quieted since the major pet food companies jumped off the bandwagon and switched to safer (and less legally troublesome) preservatives like forms of vitamins C. If they want the trust of the public, they should own up to their mistakes and come clean. Fat chance. All you'll get is denial.

8. Nature didn't intend for pets to eat dry food devoid of enzymes.

Convenience is paid for in reduced pet health. Where is it written that your pet's bowl has to be filled with chalk dry nuggets of quasi-nutritious ground up brown stuff? We've been sold on a bad idea. We bought it because it made life easier. Until the real bill comes, that is. But doesn't kibbled food make their teeth shiny and their breath fresh? Won't their teeth fall out if they eat soft stuff? Yeah, right. Ever watch your dog eat? Does it look like some kind of teeth cleaning exercise? How about the cat? Really getting the old gum line clean huh? The truth about teeth cleaning is this... sticks, rocks, yarn, bones, toys and saliva primarily accomplish this task, not food. Commercial pet food has to be flavor enhanced with digest and sprayed-on fat to be even remotely attractive to your pet. Without these palatability modifications, the old dry kibble would just sit there and get dusty. People get paid big money to invent coatings to make your pet dive headfirst into the food bowl. Because then you smile and feel like it must be healthy and that Fifi loves the food and you too so you'll buy it again. Right? Remember, the fox didn't go in search of a crunchy rabbit. It ate the soft one and it has a dazzling smile and a fully charged pancreas.

9. Some companies sneak sugar into pet food to hook your pet.

Watch out for these guys! They call it other things of course... (cane molasses, corn syrup) but it absolutely does not belong in your pet's food bowl. Processed sugars are foreign to dogs and cats and over the long term can result in obesity, tooth decay and diabetes (along with other maladies). Until 2 years ago, propylene glycol was being used as a sweet tasting preservative by those who must have cared much more about shelf life than about pet health. Thankfully, it has finally been banned. Pet food companies will tell you that the industry is tightly regulated and that your pet's health is being fastidiously protected. Do you buy that one? The FDA can't even keep up with human food and didn't lift a finger on behalf of the pet owners during the ethoxyquin debate.

The regulating body for pet food ingredients is AAFCO. The American Association of Feed Control Officials. The rules and definitions they adopt are made by those with vested interests and are enforced through "voluntary compliance". The fox guards the rabbit hutch here.

10. Almost all manufacturers use stool hardening agents in pet food.

Convenience again triumphs over pet health. Stool modifiers make clean up easier and mask the effects of nutrient malabsorption. Who's going to buy a pet food if you've got to SCRAPE up after your dog? It's easier to just stack those little bricks into a pile or kick them elsewhere. Consider however the strain on your pet's innards. Would you put concrete mix in your pancake batter? How about sawdust? If you were dieting, would you mix ground peanut shells into your breakfast cereal? Well, they do all that and more for your beloved pet. See if any of these made it into your pet food bag: sodium bentonite, powdered cellulose, beet pulp, tomato (or any other) pomace, ground peanut shells? The explanation for including these usually is that they are fiber sources for your pet's well being. Maybe a little truth there but not the real reason they are added. Whole grains provide great fiber content. A bit of bran would do well too. The real goal is to make you buy the food again because clean up time is so easy and enjoyable with brand XYZ's designer stools. Before you do this to your pet, try it yourself for a few days. One question to ask a company representative is this, "Aren't there times when my pet needs to evacuate it's system rapidly such as when a toxin is ingested or when the kitty or doggy flu comes around? Is having a cork in there at all times really a good idea? You'll then likely hear mumbling about "Our research..." and "regulating intestinal transit time for optimal nutrient absorption". Do you buy that one? If the food is good and fed properly, stools will be fine without forcing your pet to work a brick through their digestive and excretory systems.

Good Post :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Keely Mama, you do make some good points but, IMO, you are painting with too broad a brush. There is a world of difference between brands of dog foods and they can't all be lumped together. Just go to dogfoodanalysis.com and browse the ingredients of some random 1 star foods and then look at some 4,5 or 6 star foods. The differences are obvious. Also, I believe most quality brands spray on the digestive enzymes and helpful bacteria at the end of the process so they aren't subjected to heat. I do agree that the AAFCO gives companies too much latitude in arriving at their nutritional requirements. It doesn't seem that digestibility is a concern with them and, if it isn't digestible, it may as well not be there. I do think that well-formed stools are a good indicator of a healthy digestive system but I'm sure there are ways to do it 'on the cheap'. This is why folks should do a little research and find out which ingredients are truly good and those that aren't. The Dog Food Project is a good source of info. There are alternatives to feeding commercial foods, such as raw or home cooked. Still, with both these methods, some research is required to ensure your pet is getting a balanced diet. In the end, what to feed is a personal choice but, no matter the choice, some research is required to make an informed decision.

I'm really confused about dog food, home cooked and everything in between.

They don't like the really 'good' dog foods and my home cooking is not good for them when I don't put a looooooong list of supplements in it... and then they don't eat it anymore either...

So I guess I don't feed my dogs at all anymore... :rolleyes:

I would suggest just going to one of the 4 or 5 star foods. Mix a little at a time with whatever you have them on now, then gradually add a little more of the new food to it. I don't like the home cooking myself. With everything I've read, they end up getting too much protein, which isn't good for them either.

I tried home cooking for a while, they loved it but they had loose stools the whole time. So, now I do a combination of a 5 star food and a little cooked meat (lean beef or chicken breast) with rice and green beans over the top or sometimes I use the canned version of the kibble I'm feeding and on Sunday they get a scrambled egg over their food. This keeps things on an even keel, they get what they need plus a little extra and it's not a ton of extra work or confusion for me. The whole supplement thing with home cooking was a bit over whelming and I don't want my dogs to starve to death if I ever have to board them somewhere...they're certainly not going to home cook for them so they do need to be used to eating kibble of some kind.

LOL Most likely if you have to ever board them, they won't eat anyway. I know when hubby and I used to go away for one night, and leave the food/water down, etc. Mine didn't eat, nor did they poop

Sorry, I missed this question.. lol


1. The first ingredient is actually rice as the salmon should be in meal form.

2. The fish meal is likely preserved by ethoxyquin before it is purchased. Pet food manufacturers do not have to disclose this information since "they" did not add it.

3. Oat meal (different from oatmeal) is of no beneficial value and same as canola meal.

4. Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex is banned for human consumption and is a controversial ingredient linked to cancer.

A good website to check out is The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare? and click on "Ingredients to Avoid", etc. on the left hand side of the page.

Another good site is dogaware.com and click on dog feeding info.

Im not sure if i understood your post right as I am reaaaally tired.

But when I say commercial dog foods and in my looong post, I was reffering to the stuff you would buy in the grocery stores (Pedigree,Iams, etc.) Although even the higher quality foods sometimes DO indeed have somethings in it that maybe shouldnt be there, These grocery store brands are just waaaaaaaay over the top with stuff that shouldnt be in the food:thumbdown I dont mean to clump ALL dog food into one. Maybe I should have been clearer with my posts and stated examples of the mistakes. :confused:

I myself am feeding wellness puppy formula to keely. But there are also some of the different varieties of wellness that I wouldnt feed. Such as the "Boneless white fish" (I beleive is the name?).. Because, IMHO, and this is just an opinion. NO dog food created by companies is going to be the best for a dog, HIgher quality foods are obviously VERY VERY good. BUT, They still are not perfect:rolleyes: :rolleyes:If it were my desicion, Keely would be eating raw HUMAN quality meat. And some added vegies for vitamins and minerals. ANd that would be it.


I do not believe that when looking at dog food we should be looking at the quantity of life. (Such as saying, SO and so's dog was eating pedigree, and she lived to be 18 years old.) We should be looking at Quality of life. With higher grade pet foods. Those 18 years of life, may not have liver problems, cancer, digestive pain Over weight because of added fillers that can be caused by the crappy foods. )

I have heard Wellness Core is very good and also Merrick (which I have my baby on now).. Solid Gold is also good. hope you find the best food =)