Should I test for liver shunt?
 

Carson and Bailey have never been tested for liver shunts and I was wondering if I should get them tested even though they have never had any symptoms or reason to believe there is anything wrong? When I got them I had never heard of liver shunt so I have no idea if the breeders tested them for this.

Have you all had your babies tested for this? I'm paranoid after reading thread after thread about Yorkies with liver shunts. :(

Thanks in advance

I sure wouldn't. I think the test is painful, and even dangerous if they are just pups. The vet can check for leg problem easily enough, but in my opinion, I wouldn't do any unnecessary tests unless a doctor recommended it. Have you heard that your breeder was having problems with this, or you're just worried because you've read about it a lot? Breeders should test the adult dogs and know the lines real well, they don't test the puppies because it's dangerous, and not really accurate until later around 8 months, I think.

How old are your dogs?

No neither breeder mentioned anything about it. I was just worried because there are a lot of threads on here about it. I didn't know if was dangerous! I definitly will not be doing it unless I have reason to believe something wrongs if that's the case. Thanks for your response. :love:

Carson will be 2 yrs old next month and Bailey will be 6 months next month.

I always recommend doing a full blood panel and a Bile Acid test on a puppy before you have it spayed/neutered (usually by 6 months of age). The BAT is just a blood draw, just like they'll do for the blood panel. They take a sample, feed your pet, and take another sample two hours later. It's not any more painful than just having your blood drawn.

Lacy and Rylie are almost 4 and have never been BATed...didn't know to do it when they were young. They've shown no symptoms either and I think at their age there is no point now. There would have been some kind of symptom or secondary problem arise if they had liver shunt. However, I personally will be having any puppy I buy in the future BATed before it is spayed. I really feel like every yorkie puppy ought to be tested because often symtoms may not arise until they are closer to adulthood or there may be no symptoms at all until the dog develops a secondary problem such as bladder stones.

There was a thread by a YT member not too long ago where she talked about having such a healthy yorkie at one year of age...never an issue with him, but he suddenly started developing bladder stones and his vet suggested BATing him. Turned out after all diagnostics that he did have liver shunt! So it is possible to have it without showing symptoms, and it will cause the dog problems later in life.

Dr. Center recommends BATing as a puppy as well to rule out liver shunt so if the dog develops liver issues as it ages, you'll know it is MVD and not an external shunt.

If it were ME, I'd just have a blood panel done on the two year old at his next checkup (I do a blood panel once a year on my pets). And do a blood panel and a BAT on the 6 month old before you neuter. Another reason to do a BAT before their first surgery, is that dogs with liver shunt don't metabolize the anaesthesia as well as normal dogs so they can have problems coming out of it as well as a normal dog would.

Great information, this wouldn't be something the vet would normaly do in the blood test before neutering, you have to specifically ask for it?

No, most vets just do a full blood panel and an exam before a surgery. You would have to ask for a BAT test to be done prior to the day of surgery as it will involve two blood draws with a feeding in between. Dr. Center's current protocol for Bile Acid Testing says that fasting is no longer required. Blood is drawn before the dog's next meal. Then the dog is fed, and another blood sample is taken two hours post-meal. These two samples will give you pre and post meal samples which are needed for an accurate reading.

Oh great, now I'm worried.

I am afraid I have to disagree. A full blood panel done before a spay or nueter will go a long ways on telling whether you need a BAT done. If there is a problem, the liver enzymes will be high and THEN further investigation is warranted. I personally wouldn't do it unless other tests indicate it is needed.

It is possible to have a shunt and be asymptomatic (that is, having no symptoms).

I know the little mini panel my vet will run before surgeries does not contain a bile acids level. It has 5 values (two liver, two kidney and blood sugar).... That being said, those 5 values can come back completely normal, but they could still have a shunt.

I don't think a person is ever wrong to have a bile acids panel performed on their yorkie, considering how prone the breed is to liver problems. A bile acid panel is just a blood test and unless there's some reason your dog couldn't handle having his blood drawn, he should be fine.

Sometimes the shunting isn't bad enough to cause problems and it's not detected until later on in life. I know of a couple dogs who were diagnosed with it after they were a few years old because it took a while to cause a problem.

:thumbup:

I agree. A full blood panel preceding a spay, neuter or tooth removal would indicate if a BA test is needed.

Please don't assume that if your Yorkie doesn't have symptoms or has normal liver values on a CBC he does not have liver disease. We have had two Maltese on a forum I belong to in the past year who had a blood panel done with completely normal ALT, ALKP and BUN values. They also had BAT's done which revealed abnormal bile acids. Both dogs were diagnosed with MVD.

Dr. Center recommends all Yorkies have a BAT test done as puppies. She previously recommended getting it done at sixteen weeks, but as a result of her findings in her AKC grant to look for genetic markers, she has revised this recommendation to eighteen weeks.

A BAT test is just a simple blood draw and very inexpensive. There really is no reason not to get one done IMO.

I didn't know much about Yorkies when I first got Duke so I never asked the breeders about liver shunts, and never had him tested, but he has been neutered and is 7yrs old and is doing just fine.
Since I have learned so much more, I asked Lucie's breeder if she tested her dogs for liver shunts, she said no but she has never had a problem with them or with them in her litters. But I still plan on having Lucie tested before I have her spayed just to make sure.

Yes, I would definately want any Yorkie I had tested.

The ALT may not elevate until the liver is 70% damaged, so a regular blood panel is not enough and I would not believe that a dog's liver is normal just because of a good ALT as Ladymom said.

A bile acid test isn't dangerous. It is just two blood draws. Yes, problems can happen but problems can happen from blood panels too. I think the big difference for people is that the bile acid blood draws are taken from the jugular but that is where most of Ellie's are done, so there is no difference for us.

Ellie was five when I first heard about bile acid testing. She really didn't have any problems but since she is sensitive to vaccines and was having some bladder issues I decided it would be good to test. The vet did not think it was important to do so (and rightfully so) because Ellie's last ALT was 43 (perfect). It since went up (118) and back down again. I decided to do it anyway and I am glad I did. Now I know she should be on something to support her liver (Denosyl) and not a super-high protein diet. While she is undiagnosable right now and 99.999% asymptomatic, I really think it is best for her to be on some sort of protocol instead of just letting it go.

So since she was five when she got tested and they are high, I see no reason not to test adults. The small risk of a blood draw in an older pup (6 months or so) or an adult is worth it in my opinion and if we say no to bile acid testing, then I guess we have to say no to every blood draw from the jugular and that is the easiest place to take it from a small dog because the veins in the legs are small and collapse easily.

I just want to throw in...the routine blood work at my vet's office before neutering...is not an indepth full blood panel. Mine offers a CBC test or a full panel. I always get the full panel. I just wanted to let people know...when your vet says a blood panel...ask and make sure it's the full one.

BATS in my opinion are and should be required in puppies at 6 months of age but if you feel comfortable at 16 weeks then I would do it also. All breeding adults SHOULD be tested. BUT remember make sure your yorkie hasn't been on any kind of medication for at least 3 weeks before testing because it CAN give a false reading. That includes vacs, heatworms, antibotics ect...
I know several that got slightly evalvated numbers first time around, sent blood to Cornell for a Protein C test and was cleared for shunt and retested BATS and they were normal when there were no meds in the system and BAT tested again in 6 months and cleared again. I myself have spoken with Dr. Sharon Center and she's a world of information! I can't wait to attend a seminar to hear her speak in person!!!
With liver shunt so prevaliant in our breed it's our responsiblity to ensure the health and well being of this wonderful breed. I personally am still educating myself and will continue to research and study! It's important!

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

And make sure to ask for a geriatric panel after your Yorkie turns seven years old.

I have to agree with everyone saying that you should do a BAT (over 6 months).

Roxy and TJ were 2.5 y/o - NO symptoms of any type of problems with them other than their luxating patellas. On a hunch, I decided to do a BAT, which is not painful at all. They were fasted for 12 hours, brought to the Vet, blood was drawn, they were feed a special food, and 2 hours blood was drawn again. I got the results the next day. Both were high, Roxy's being in L/S numbers. We went onto a specialist and onto to other tests, a special diet and special supplements. Both my Vet and Specialist agree that they would have NEVER suggested to do BAT, as nothing indicated liver issues, BUT Thank God I did....As Roxy was on a Raw diet at the time, and this is NOT the best diet for her with her liver issues, and she wasn't getting the added supplements to aid her liver.

So me requesting a BAT and learning and aiding her as probably added years onto her life :thumbup:

I HIGHLY suggest getting ALL Yorkies BAT at some point in time ;)

Dr. Center has revised her protocol so the 12 hour fasting isn't even needed anymore:

Taken from Page 5 of the handout Dr. Center gives at seminars:

7. Random "Fasting" Bile Acids ARE NOT reliable for RULING OUT liver dysfunction or abnormal portal circulation. Rather, you need PAIRED SAMPLES AROUND A MEAL. We no longer collect 12-hr fasting bile acids but instead collect a bile acid sample before a meal (pre-meal) and 2 hours after a meal (post-meal or postprandial)." (all emphasis was added by Dr. Center, not me)

I so want to attend one of her seminars! She's wonderful! She spoke to me at length on the phone! I highly recommend her recommendations!!!

I also want to point out that just because your breeder tells you they've never had a problem with liver shunt, doesn't mean they haven't. Breeders CAN lie ;) I have a good friend who bought a puppy from a show breeder. She specifically asked the breeder beforehand if she'd ever had any health issues in her breeding program. The breeder told her no. Well, she found out a few months later that her breeder did in fact have a liver shunt puppy and lied to her about it. Luckily, the two dogs are from completely different lines and are not related, but this just goes to show you that breeders may hide the fact that they had a liver shunt puppy. Always be sure that the parents were BATed and be sure to see PROOF of the BATs...don't only take the breeders word for it. I've seen firsthand that not all breeders are honest.