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-   Yorkie Health & Diet (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-health-diet/)
-   -   Pros or Cons or "Grain-Free" Kibble??? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-health-diet/137936-pros-cons-grain-free-kibble.html)

ketters12 07-15-2008 11:24 AM
My main reason for asking is because I recently picked up a sample of Fromm's Surf and turf which is a grain free kibble and the kibbles are little in size like the Solid Gold Wee bits he was on. I have switched him over in the past two weeks or so because he just seems to love the new kibble but I want to make sure its okay.

He actually seems less constipated like his "poops" are slightly softer and just a tad larger since switching...??:confused: The ingredients look great:

Fromm Family Foods - Four-Star Grain-Free Surf & Turf for dogs
It looks like the protien content is about 30% is that too high??:thumbs up

LuvMySissy 07-15-2008 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketters12 (Post 2114967)
My main reason for asking is because I recently picked up a sample of Fromm's Surf and turf which is a grain free kibble and the kibbles are little in size like the Solid Gold Wee bits he was on. I have switched him over in the past two weeks or so because he just seems to love the new kibble but I want to make sure its okay.

He actually seems less constipated like his "poops" are slightly softer and just a tad larger since switching...??:confused: The ingredients look great:

Fromm Family Foods - Four-Star Grain-Free Surf & Turf for dogs
It looks like the protien content is about 30% is that too high??:thumbs up
It sounds good to me!!!!!!!!

labrown 08-13-2008 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMySissy (Post 2113423)
I have heard criticism that freeze-dried raw isn't good for them and shouldn't be used long-term, but I've heard no such thing from the nutritional experts I have looked to.

Where did you hear the criticism? Just curious...

Yorkie_Loverz 08-16-2008 04:57 PM
I spoke to a dog nutritionist (sp?) and he told me it's not true that high protein is all bad. It all depends on the source of the protein. He said that EVO uses meat as their protein which is a whole lot easier to digest than other forms of protein. He gave me a lot of other interesting fact but it's been over 2 yrs so the protein part is all I remember.

Gracie2006 08-16-2008 05:35 PM
For now I am feeding Timberwolf. Protein content is 25%

Wylie's Mom 08-17-2008 06:10 AM
Pros: elimating potential allergens, fillers, unnecessary ingredients; you get a higher protein, more species-appropriate kibble (if you can even call a kibble "species appropriate" that is :rolleyes:)

Cons: only con I can think of is if you have a dog with a disease that precludes them from having a higher protein diet

Just a comment about moisture content and moisture needs: you certainly could add water to a kibble - it's always great to add moisture to a diet However, when dogs need moisture - they drink water. If drinking water doesn't provide them with enough water to process a higher protein diet (which IS appropriate for their species) - then there is probably something going on with THEM - it's not a "con" of the kibble, in my opinion. Rather, it would make me wonder about kidneys etcetera.

FL Tink 08-17-2008 06:14 AM
I use the honest kitchen too because it is raw, grain free and only 21% proteing. (force)

labrown 08-17-2008 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL Tink (Post 2186502)
I use the honest kitchen too because it is raw, grain free and only 21% proteing. (force)
Do you add other things like meat or veggies to the HK?

Ellie May 08-18-2008 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 2111771)
Two cons of grain-free kibble are a possibility (not always) of higher fat content and the fact that there is just about zero moisture in kibble and the higher protein may increase the need for moisture. I think grain-free canned is probably better or maybe adding water to the kibble.
Hmm, I don't know why I wrote this this way.:rolleyes:
What I meant was that grain free kibble seems to make some dogs very thirsty and they drink tons to get enough moisture. It is almost to the unhealthy point. I don't really like kibble at all because for one it is overprocessed and a human would really never be expected to eat hard food all the time. I think a mixture of hard and soft food is a good way to go (and I really don't mean kibble and canned, I mean soft food and then something like raw vegetables).

As for canned, the ingredients may be good and it is less processed than kibble but grain free canned is very high in fat quite often. It just is not healthy in my opinion. So I don't really like either of them. If you could find a canned grain free food that is lower in fat, that would seem fair. Or provide plenty of water with the kibble and get ready for potty breaks.:) All dogs are different though.

BamaFan121s 08-18-2008 09:13 AM
Anytime mine eat something that is completely grain free, they tend to end up with very loose stools. I am just very careful to consider what grain and what content they are getting. (which most of the time I am adding it to their diets myself, so I control it completely about 90% of the time.)

wishies 08-18-2008 03:42 PM
i feed riley orijen and his stools are fine! its the only dry kibble i've gotten him to eat and he likes it :p

yorkiesmiles 08-18-2008 06:12 PM
Interesting discussion - as I just questioned myself in buying a second bag of Merrick's Before Grain -- I bought it, but thought I really need to do more research.

Suzy told me that she doesn't buy that animals don't eat grains in the wild as someone else suggested, because animals in the wild would first eat the stomach of an animal, and it would contain grain that the dead animal ate

I am so confused about which is best

Wylie's Mom 08-18-2008 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiesmiles (Post 2189577)
.Suzy told me that she doesn't buy that animals don't eat grains in the wild as someone else suggested, because animals in the wild would first eat the stomach of an animal, and it would contain grain that the dead animal ate
Actually - wolves eating the stomach lining and intestinal wall - the contents of the stomach are usually strewn about the kill site. :)

Read about it here: Myths About Raw: Do wolves eat stomach contents of prey?

Nancy1999 08-18-2008 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 2188198)
Hmm, I don't know why I wrote this this way.:rolleyes:
What I meant was that grain free kibble seems to make some dogs very thirsty and they drink tons to get enough moisture. It is almost to the unhealthy point. I don't really like kibble at all because for one it is overprocessed and a human would really never be expected to eat hard food all the time. I think a mixture of hard and soft food is a good way to go (and I really don't mean kibble and canned, I mean soft food and then something like raw vegetables).

As for canned, the ingredients may be good and it is less processed than kibble but grain free canned is very high in fat quite often. It just is not healthy in my opinion. So I don't really like either of them. If you could find a canned grain free food that is lower in fat, that would seem fair. Or provide plenty of water with the kibble and get ready for potty breaks.:) All dogs are different though.

If the dog is drinking excessive water, there may be other problems such as diabetes. I do not believe a healthy dog will "over drink" just because his food is dry. He'll drink the water he needs. I know you don't like dry kibble, but I think it's misleading when you say this.

Ellie May 08-18-2008 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2189795)
If the dog is drinking excessive water, there may be other problems such as diabetes. I do not believe a healthy dog will "over drink" just because his food is dry. He'll drink the water he needs. I know you don't like dry kibble, but I think it's misleading when you say this.
Feeding dogs kibble with grain is probably not going to cause them to over drink. In fact, my concern with dogs on kibble with grain is that they will under drink. Grain free kibble usually has excess protein which shouldn't be a big deal for most dogs but there have been a couple reports of dogs eating this kind of food over drinking to an extreme and unhealthy level. The kidneys need extra moisture to metabolize this much protein and that is okay too but how much water drinking is too much? I think the links to two threads below are examples of what can happen and why grain free or high protein kibble can't be used for every dog. Most dogs could probably do well on all different kinds of foods but some don't.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...rain-food.html

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...ly-not-us.html


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