liver shunt/BAT
 

Hi- here is the deal. I have a pup that may of had a shunt. She had 2 BATs done. 1st one was done on aug 07 (results 95.4) and the 2nd one on 2/21/08 (PRE 1.9-normal is <10) (POST <1-normal is <20). Now the dr wasnt tooo happy cuz he was saying that if she was at 95.4 how can she be back to normal??? Btw the 1st test was done when she had a kennel cough and she was on all the meds. The dr said that has nothing to do w/the BAT results at all. Is that true??? When I spoke to other people they said the meds can cause it to get elevated.

He said I should get her another BAT done in 2 mths??? After seeing the results do u think its necessay for 3rd BAT??

The dr said she needs to get vaccinated w/her pup shots and rabies. She has only 2 pup shots and that was like back in Aug/Spt 07. What should I do?? If I do get her vaccinated do I do all at diff days?? If so how may days apart??

He also said to keep her on the same food (Natural Bal Vege) and all the supps. If she doesnt have any liver issues or shunts isnt it best to have her on a regular pup food???

I am sooo :confused: ... Pls help me. I need advise and feel like I need someone to talk tooo...!!!

Thank u all

The more we learn about bile acids, the less we know. That is, it is very possible for meds to make them go up. Ellie's specialist agrees with this... Nobody can say exactly what meds will make them go up and how much...

Why was she tested in the first place?

That being said, 95 is VERY high. It would definately concern me.
What was her pre the first time?
What was she eating?
Has she been on Actigall or Denosyl?

Shunts don't just go away, so if your pup has a shunt, then it is still there unless it was surgically corrected. MVD is another possibility.

I believe that meds can affect BAT results.

Like Ellie May asked, was she on actigall (ursodiol sp?)??

Has she had any other bloodwork done? do you know her ALT?

When you had her tested was she exhibiting any symptoms like inappetance or lethargy?

pls see answers in red
 

She is not on any of those. But I am giving her Vetri DMG and Hepato Support.

The only meds she was on was Clavamox, cough syrup, and Zithromax cuz she had a kennel cough. What is actigal?? Yes she had CBC and blood chem done. blood chem was done on 2/21/08, ALT was 49 and the range is 10-118. Her blood chem came out pretty good the dr said. She has NO SYMPTOMS at all. I only got her retested just to make sure. Since the 1st one was high in Aug 07.

The second BAT is normal but the first one was elevated. The post meal was 95 but what was the premeal?

Something similar happened to Ellie.
Tested as precaution.
Post was 47.
Went on Denosyl, vitamin e, low protein and antibiotics.
Retested and post was 15.
Liver biopsy (done during spay) was normal.
Went off Denosyl and went to 24% protein.
A couple months later post was up to 106.
A vaccine was given about 45 days before the 106 reading.
Don't know if that's what caused it.
She is back on Denosyl. Ultrasound was normal.
So, would your vet be comfortable taking her off the Vetri and low protein and retesting in a month?
I wouldn't vaccinate too close to then.
Has she been spayed?

Oh no, she had it done 2 separate times. One was done in Aug 07 and the 2nd one was done on 2/21/08. The 1st time one was only PRE cz we didnt stay there for POST.

The BAT that was dont on 2/21/08 (2nd time, retest just to make sure) was normal.

She isnt spayed yet. He said to go ahead and vaccinate her but not all at once. He also said to do another BAT in 2myths (3rd BAT) to make sure.. I mean this was the 2nd BAT she has had in 6 myths. Now he wants to do a 3rd one, omega I dont think she has enough blood :eeg: ... :(

The dr didnt tell me to keep her on a low protein diet and tell me to put her on those supes. I had gotten the info from the net, like people like u all, who have experience and help.

BTW this is a new dr that I just went on 2/21/08.. There werent too many drys who had a knowledge about LS/MVD. I couldnt goto a dr who knew less than customers.

I had a furbaby die of liver shunt and that stuff is nothing to mess with.If your baby is acting normal and having a good appetite I wouldnt worry too much about it at this point.IF the latest test came back normal I would say everything is okay unless your baby starts acting strange.Mine started pacing around the room at a constant steady speed not slowing down or stopping for anything.Also he acted like he couldnt see me like temporary blindness when you looked into his eyes its like he wasnt even there he also had profuse slobbering and when you picked him up his legs kept moving.We made an emergency trip to the vet that night and had blood work done his enzymes were elevated so the vet wanted to do a bat on him so we did that the results were positive.H e had him put on perscription dog food to see if we could manage it for a while.It worked for a while we thought he was getting better .Before we could get back for the follow up bat it was too late.He went into one of his pacing slobbering ceasures and never recovered.If your baby has this you will know it.Keep a close eye on behavior if anything changes get to the vet.As far as a 3rd test goes I might just get a second oppenion at another vet I dont thing 3 is necessary you may just have a small baby.Hope everything works out okay

Mabye the first time she ate something that didnt agree with her or it could have been the meds.that is what we were hopeing with my baby but he wasnt on any meds and i hadnt changed his food or treats.

OMG, I am sorry to hear about ur furbaby!! When i hear stories from people its so sad and almost makes me wana just cry for them. I think to myself what if I was in their shoes?!

Since I had her when she was a pup she was like a normal pup. She had a very good appetite and was very active w/my other yorkies. The only problem she had was the kennel cough but that went away later. The 1st vet only did the test cuz she wasnt gaining weight. All these different vet visits is making me very :confused: ... She has been to 3 different vets now. It seems like its hard to find drs who knows about liver shunts. I honestly think she is fine but its still that 1% that I am unsure if she is perfectly normal or not. I am soooo :confused:

It would not hurt do retest in a couple of months. It's better to have peace of mind even if she's fine :)

I think it's better that your vet is cautious rather than having a vet who says that she's fine even if there could possibly be a problem.

True.. But do u think its the supps that I have her on that maybe kept her BAT to normal??? I have her on a low protein diet and supps..

Here is what I'd do:
Take her off supplements and put her on regular puppy food.
Retest in 30-60 days.
If it is normal, retest in another 30-60 days (bile acid shouldn't go up that high for no reason and even with meds that is high).
If it is abnormal go to protein c test.
If you notice any symptoms at all throughout this, put her back on supplements and do further testing.
I would not vaccinate during this time because that will for sure skew the results.
I would wait on the spay (if you are even planning on doing that) because if the numbers stay up they may want a liver biopsy that could be done at the same time.
I know I am extra cautious but like I said, Ellie's went done to 15 and back up to 106, so I'd rather be safe.

I don't think Denosyl (or VetriDMG) would lower bile acids if it is shunt or MVD. I have never heard that anyway.

And Ellie had a bile acid test (pre and post), blood panel and titer test done at the same time and she has plenty of blood left.:)

I second that :thumbup:

Ok, will take her off of the supps and retest her in 2 mths.. So do u think its kinda weird that her 1st BAT was soo high?? But the 2nd one that was done on 2/21/08 is normal?? Also her BUN and ALT came out normal too. Why do u think all the results came out to normal but the BAT that was done on Aug 07 was high? I mean the drs say the kennel cough meds shouldnt make the BAT elevate but I dont know any other reason why it was high the 1st time. If her 3rd BAT is normal then I should test her ANYMORE, right??