Great! Its always good to have lots of opinions :)

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Ummmmm, well some of us would beg to differ. More than anything its the type of bone that needs to be considered. Generally speaking, its cooked bones, beef bones, the leg bones of large animals and bones that are an inapropriate size for the said dog that can cause problems. Its all about research and 'know thy dog' really. Myself, I consider the risks of appropriate raw meaty bones doing damage to my dogs to be lower that the risk of serious dental dieseses that they could get if they were not eating rmb's. Of course you can just brush your dogs teeth, that will have some effect, however there was recently a recall on a type of dog toothpaste, how do we know petzlife won't be next?


Are you sure about that? A few years ago I became very ill after contracting salmonella poisening from a store bought chicken sandwich. Bacteria is everywhere.

All the food my dogs eat is deemed fit for human consumption.

I am complete agreement that home cooked is much better than kibble. If I was to have a dog who had some sort of issue that meant they could not eat raw, I would home cook. Because I would move heaven and earth before feeding kibble. Your right, everyone in entitled to their own opinions and its great to hear them! :)

Yes, another debate altogether.

Agreed. (Although feeding whole bones--different subject again--still pose possible risks to stomachs, intestines, and teeth.)

Heck, recalls happen all the time...my Totinos pizzas got recalled last month!:p Seriously, depends on what you consider 'proven.' You could argue there is no proof for either side. Maybe 'extensive' research was a better choice of phrase...

True, freezing does kill out many (not all) things and contaminates are everywhere. Of course, if freezing first is the key, that throws out that whole 'it's what they eat in the wild' argument, huh? Cooking (home or commercial) does eliminate alot of those risks...although you then have to supplement for some things lost in the cooking process.:rolleyes: Guess you have to decide which is a bigger concern for you.

I believe some of those recalls you mentioned were because the products were found to contain Salmonella? So either 1) those recalls weren't needed should be taken out of the equation for that argument, or 2) it does pose some threat....
The article was interesting. :thumbup: I've never really looked into how Salmonella (and other bacteria that plague humans) affect dogs differently...glad you brought this up....I'm going to try to look into it more.

True, supplements do have to be added, but the important things is that the dogs ARE getting them. If it's just a matter of what is the more 'convenient' way of doing it....
As far as it being 'balanced,' that, IMO is up for debate. Most of the non-captive wolves (since that is the example you gave) studied who eat this 'natural raw' diet are highly malnourished. So, something's missing somewhere....

Actually, I wasn't talking about vaccines (or steroids for that matter) but that doesn't help ease my mind about it.:eek: It may be fit for human consumption...but would YOU eat it raw? And I won't argue with you that I wouldn't eat the meat used for most dog foods either...even the so called 'high end, high quality' ones.:( Heck, I can't even think about what's in a hot dog too much or I won't eat it!:p


Agreed! And one that is civil. :) That is a rare occurance many times! Thanks for that and bringing up some thought provoking ideas and points.

I'm sure you could have a line of vets telling you horror stories about this. Not to mention it can easily break their teeth. Wouldn't the nutritional benefit be the same if the bones were just ground up.
Most wolves studied in the wild (thank you Animal Planet) have broken teeth, intestinal tears and damage. There was actually a vet w/ a website that talked about this in detail and it had some of the x-rays on it....maybe I can find it again...



Key words...you bought it...you don't know how it was cooked, stored or what it was exposed to before you ate it. Most restaraunts are required to cook their meat to a certain temp before serving it. It's the first thing they tell you if you ask for rare or medium rare cooked food these days. There is reasoning behind that.

Kind of answered by view on that in my last post to Ellie May.

The pet food recall was very serious though, alot of dogs actually became very sick and some died.

Agreed. In my view, i'm feeding a species appropriate diet and perhaps taking some extra precautions, alot of raw feeders don't.


Some of them may have been for salmonella, but then of course another debate is that fresh sources that may have low levels of salmonella would be safer than salmonella infested kibble that has been sitting in a bag multiplying for months or even years. They were infected with all sorts of other harful things too. I guess the way it is, I personally choose to take responsibility of my own dogs diet, rather than let a commercial company do it for me.

Remember that I do take the time to ensure I am feeding a wide variety of different foods and I think about what nutrients are in what food sources I feed. Again as I said earlier on, its about feeding a species approproate diet, but making sure you do it right. Best of both worlds as far as i'm concerned.

http://rawfed.com/myths/balance.html


Sushi....steak tartare :cool:

But overall, i'm not a dog.

Your welcome :)

Found it...

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/bones.html


Wanted to add....in regards to the 'compromised immune system.' That is something that dogs who are excessively, mass bred (like Yorkies are being now) and dogs that are closely bred within a line (like Biewers) are at higher risk for. Same is true in cats....thus the feline AIDS epidemic more common in breeds with histories of line breeding. So don't count on the immune systems of this breed given it's current state to be a safe way of protecting the animal.

As I already said, its about the type of bone fed, I am very careful about which bones I choose to feed. It is based on years of research. Bones that are responsible for breaking teeth are what RAW feeders nickname 'wreck' bones, these are beef bones and the leg bones of large animals.

Of course, but do you know how the meat in kibble is cooked?

Wasn't talking about kibble. It was in reference to someone who mentioned cooking the meat vs feeding raw, when you brought up your experience. I know how meat is cooked in my house. If you contract something from something cooked elsewhere, you can't really put your finger on what caused it.

As far as the sushi comment....tuche...and Blech!;)

As far as the bones...makes sense I suppose. I just have to assume (and hope) that the caution and careful consideration YOU demonstrate is widely practiced. We've given our hound bones before (not poultry) and not given it much thought...hmmm...just not as part of her 'diet' but I guess it's basically the same thing....interesting...

Actually, while I know you weren't addressing ME, raw beef is also part of the raw diet for some dog owners and I do and have eaten raw or virtually raw beef. I used to eat raw hamburger as I kid (little bites till the parents caught on! lol), I've eaten steak tartar which is raw beef and I eat my steaks blue. So while I wouldn't eat raw chicken (not a big fan of it cooked though, either) raw beef is certainly consumed by millions of people in varying forms around the world. Just another opinion :)

Tara

I don't doubt people eat raw meat...I have friends who would eat it bleeding if given the option...I just question what health risks it presents.....

I'm pretty much the same way - slaughter it, butcher it, sear it, slam it on my plate :) And while despite many vices, I'm still reasonably healthy despite eating raw meat. Though that post was meat to be a little teasing, not rude or nasty, I'm sorry if it came off that way :)

I just have a comment on bones for now: Carnivores (which include dogs) have a special tough lining in their stomach and duodenum (first part of the intestines). This tough lining is there because carnivores eat prey animals, including bones. So bones tearing the lining of the stomach or intestines isn't very likely, although I'm not saying it never happens. I've learned that anything can happen...but I feel raw bones are safe overall. Carnivores were designed to eat them.

About humans eating raw - as much as we love our dogs, dogs and humans are physically and physiologically different. Humans are omnivores - dogs are carnivores. Our digestive tracts are different in a lot of aspects. With any animal it is important to feed a species-appropriate diet

LOL, Tara! You just reminded me that I used to do the SAME thing as a kid, ALL the time!

No offense taken...:) ...none meant in return.

None taken at all on this end either :)