How to brush out a puppy with tangles by legs and haunches
 

Milo is about 4 months old. He is playful and full of energy. He's been home about two and a half weeks. I recently tried to start grooming him by first brushing out his coat. Low and behold, he has major tangles on his legs, and by his upper thigh in back and front. I don't know how to keep him still while I try to bush him, and detangle the knots. The rest of his back, his head, I was able to do, but not his under belly or legs and hips. He tries to eat the brush or comb, or squeals when I try to detangle a knot by holding his hair close to the skin. I want grooming time to be a pleasant experience for him, not something to be feared, but I don't know how to get the tangles out without hurting him, or to keep him still so I can figure out the right course of action. I am not good at grooming a squirming puppy or even an adult for that manner. Are there any thorough grooming videos, or instructions that could help me to become a good dog groomer for my babies. I really want to do this but I really need help
Thanks,
Shellie:)

I used to give Lola dog cookies (from the bins at petco) to eat while I brushed her, she'd get about 3 and they'd last for the entire grooming. After awhile I was able to stretch the time between cookies and now she doesn't need them.
At around 9 months she started standing really good for me, at 11 months she's almost perfect. My only problems are her trying to sit and sometimes she gives me issues with one front leg.

Also, if you aren't already put him on something to groom him (table, counter, etc.) it was a disaster when I tried to brush Lola on the couch.

My routine is I spray my maden brush with spray conditioner, brush her, and them comb her. Make sure you get down to the skin, all the way around the legs, pick the front leg up to get all the way in there, and get the back of the head/base of the ears really well too. Those are areas I wasn't doing well enough at first.

The way I get the knots out is I try to pull hair out of it from the bottom to get as much hair out of it as possible (using my fingers and the end of a rat tail comb), spray it with conditioner, try to comb it with the rat tail comb from the end to the root, and then I don't have to cut as much, if any at all.

One time Lola's legs got really knotted because I hadn't been getting close enough to the skin, I saturated them in coconut oil and worked them out while she ate cookies on my lap.
For awhile I just cut the knots out, then just did the big ones (I didn't want to scalp her leg, that's when I did the coconut oil), now I can work most of them out but if it's in a sensitive spot I just cut it out. It's more important for the dog to like grooming than having a perfect coat.

Thanks so much, this is very helpful!!!! I do have a couple of grooming tables, a round one that turns and one that is stationary height. I really want to get a grooming table that has an adjustable height that is not manual, but they are so expensive. I am waiting for my Madan brush and detangler as we speak. Hope I get it soon, Jenny is such a LOVE. IN the meantime I am using the small round table. My problem is he is so squirmy, I'm afraid he's going to fall off the table. He tries to eat everything, the comb, the brush. I bring in treats and toys, but he eats the treats and then is back to squirming again even when I complement him and tell him what a good boy he is. He seems more interested in eating the brush than playing with his toy. He is even trying to eat the scissors LOL :D. But it's no joke, cause I don't want to cut him as I'm trying to detangle him, or have him fall off the table onto the floor.

Do you think I should wait for the brush and detangler spray before I attempt it again? The thing is, in order to do it right, I need to take my time and concentrate and for him to hold still so I don't hurt him, and while he's hopping and jumping and mouthing all over the place he makes it very hard to do that.
I have lots of coconut oil, I cook with it so that's no problem having on hand.

I used to get the knots out of my other baby's tangles also by pulling the single hairs gently out, tease them out of the tangle, and it worked but only if they stood still or lay down and let me do it.

Well, I will attempt it again tomorrow. I've decided that in my attempts, I will not do it for too long, as that will frustrate him and me, so I've decided to try to groom him in short maybe 10 minute sessions, or even shorter if he can't tolerate it longer. Like you said, it's more about him associating a positive experience with grooming than being afraid of it, and getting a perfect tangle free coat!

Thanks so much,

Shellie

Exercise him beforehand, wear him out a bit. I use an ironing board up against a wall so they can't jump off, but for a puppy I think I'd keep a leash on him too. Put a shirt on him to warm him up and make him sleepy, then you can work on his hind parts.

Hi Shellie,

I have three pups that are almost 5 months old and are full of themselves. I groom them several times a day for just a few minutes each time. For the time being I pick up the "victim" and give some loving, then start brushing gently down the back with a Vellus face brush. Then I "accidentally" do a quick swipe down a leg and reward with a hug when the pup doesn't resist. Then with my hands I feel for nits and tangles and massage a drop of Biosilk Silk into the problem area and use a tiny face pin brush (Chris Christensen) to worry the nit. I always reward good behavior by stopping for a few seconds and just loving the pup then continue.

The three - Savory, Spicy, and Thyme are little hellions and hopefully one or more of them will be my next show prospect, so I need for them to learn to tolerate grooming without a fuss and ultimately enjoy grooming.

Good luck with Milo - just take it slow and easy and try to make grooming a stress free event for both of you. You have many years to "perfect" your technique so don't try to rush it.

ps. I ALWAYS end a grooming session when the pup is quiet and relaxed even if I haven't finished what I wanted to accomplish. My rule of thumb is to end grooming and any training event on a good note.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
This is VERY important....you dont ever want them to think you stopped doing whatever you are trying to do, because they fussed and "won the battle"!!!

GREAT idea!!!!

THANKS!!!:D Will try this for SURE!!!
You are always so full of fantastic ideas. Thanks for offering so very much to everyone here! :D

Wow Cindy, THREE 5 month olds, wow wow wow (LOL) :D They sound good enough to eat (LOL) I give you credit, I think I would be a basket case with that many little ones to care for. :D.
And how many other little ones do you have in addition to these 3 little balls of fluff??? You are certainly a busy lady!!!

Well all your suggestions are Fantastic!!! I am not really familiar with the products you mention or where to get them : Vellus Face Brush, Biosilk Silk, tiny Face Pin Brush Chris Christensen. Where do you get these from? I'd like to get them. I agree, it's more important to end the session on a positive note than to get them upset. I have been trying to do that, and I am thinking it is working, but at this rate I may finish one leg by the time he's a year old (LOL).
I was able to cut through a couple of knots yesterday and semi brush them, but only for a minute. I have to give more treats as rewards. Our YY should be very helpful :D
Love,
Shellie

My Tibbe's tendency to tangle got way better as he aged and his coat matured. Treats and patience in short sessions as advised above are great ways to work through these things. If one got too bad, I cut into part of it here and there with a tiny snip or cut it off rather than put Tibbe through any discomfort.

I agree, I think thats the way to go. I find myself avoiding the struggle of him jumping all over the place and that's bad. I'm going to try tiring him out as mentioned above and reward reward reward (going to need lots of YY (LOL)--
so glad I ordered the 3 Pak:D
That's the Plan, and "I'm stickin to it :)" I have to bolster up my patience!!!!:D

Shellie, thank you for your kind words. Yes, the three babies keep me busy, I also have a 7 month old show prospect from Anna Stringer, Lacie, and Lollie (the pups mommy).


BioSilk is a human hair product that I get from Wally World :D. Other products will do - Chris Christensen's Ice on Ice Leave In Conditioner, Mane & Tail Conditioner, and if the nit is really bad you can use a touch of WD-40, but wash it out as soon as you get the tangle out.

Slicker Brushes for Pet Grooming, Show Dogs & Cats
Mark I X-Small Slicker Brush

Vellus Mini Natural Black Bristle Brush
Mini Natural Black Bristle Brush - MY ALL TIME FAVORITE BRUSH! Fits my small hands perfectly and feels sssssooooo nice. And to answer what you are thinking I try out all of the brushes I use on my furkids on my hair first so I know how much pressure to use :D

When Momo was a puppy, I brushed him when he was tired & sleepy. I made sure to be very gentle so I don't bother him. Line brushing is great, lift up the section of hair you're going to brush. Start brushing downwards in layers smoothing every strand. If I encountered a tangle, I sprayed a conditioner/ detangling spray directly on it & worked it out by pinching the hair closest to the skin. If it was a tight tangle, I snipped it w/a mini blunt nosed scissor to loosen it & brushed it out. If he got wiggly or tried to attack the brush, I stopped, gave him a little break & tried again. He's mostly better behaved the 2nd time around.

Your Small Madan pin brush is on it's way to you...hope you'll get it soon, so you can start using it on Milo! Thank you Shellie & please do not hesitate to ask any questions you might have, I'll be happy to help.

OMG! Good to know! And I was going to suggest Duct Tape to keep him on the table! Lol! (JK- absolutely just kidding)

Also with the WD 40, try to get it only on the hair (spray on your fingers then apply to the hair), and I wouldn't do more than a couple small spots at any one time, and quickly into the bath, or at least spot wash with regular Dawn dishwashing liquid and rinse well.

Seriously though, for non-bath days, you can also work some cornstarch (some baby powder is made exclusively with CS, some are talc which is not recommended) into the tangle, then tease it out.

And for static, a quick wipe over with a dryer sheet does the trick.

I have all older dogs, and as I got them as adults, we've gone through some trust issues. If I snag a knot, they have tried to bite me... they are all better about it now, especially if I apologize profusely. So not pulling the hair is key.

Oh yeah, the Duct Tape - it works fantastic as a restraining device, the problem is trying to UNrestrain them :lol tears ! Just kidding of course

You are absolutely right about the WD-40 thank you for clarifying my suggestion.

And I entirely forgot about cornstarch! It works miracles. What fantastic suggestions have been presented in this thread - Thank you Shellie for starting it. I absolutely need to start a notebook of tips and tricks of the trade.

And an FYI for new puppy owners and all dog owners who may attempt home grooming:

1. Never, ever leave a pup on the table unattended. Do NOT walk away for 'just a second'. Always keep one hand on the pup.

I had my 3 YO on the ironing board, higher so I could stand comfortably to groom her, and left a comb 2 feet away on the counter top. I had my arm extended thinking to block her and the other arm reaching for the comb. Almost got it, then Tink did a tiny 'alert' bark, and with no hesitation whatsoever, Finny flew off the ironing board and was headed toward the floor like a pile of bricks. I managed to grab a handful of hair... she yipped and spun to bite me, but that handful of hair was just enough to slow her fall and guide her to a gentler landing on the floor. She was mad at me for a bit for pulling her hair, but TG she was uninjured in the mishap. I should have carried her with me to retrieve the comb... lesson learned.

2. When using a noose on a grooming table, never, ever leave the pup unattended. A safer way to use the noose is to also slip one leg through it, so it's around one side of the neck and behind one elbow, on a diagonal. Protect those tiny tracheas (windpipe).

3. To do feet, a dog can be put in a life vest, then suspended from the grooming table arm. Again, do not leave them unattended.

4. To use two hands for grooming, use your body to block them and to keep them on the table.

5. Take the pup with you if you need to get something even a tiny distance away.

6. Health and Safety is so much more important to safeguard... hair can wait.

Bath time trauma for Milo and I
 

Hi all,

Well, I wasn't looking forward to the bath thing. Milo is extremely squirmy to begin with, but I was left no choice, as he still has giardia, and I don't think any groomer would take him, nor do I blame them. Then I sort of freaked out when I caught him playing with a little bit of his feces in his bed after he had pooped on his potty, but some leftover stuff must have stuck to his butt and fallen into his bed when he jumped in. I don't remember exactly, but I think I caught him licking it or something, I almost fainted LOL (not really, but almost :eek:)

I'm not sure if he has been doing this and that is why his giardia is not clearing up, (he might be reinfecting himself) or if this is the first time. This is definitely the first time I saw him do this. I'm hoping this was a one time only thing and he was playing with it and licking it out of curiosity.

Nonetheless, bath time needed to happen and it did not go well. I tried so hard to be very gentle, poured luke warm water gently on him from a cup and talked softly to him, gave him treats, tried to cut out mats that were just too tangled, etc. He screamed the whole time. He would not keep still for one second, tried to jump out of the sink, and screamed as if I were tearing him limb from limb. I tried to stop for a while but he was wet and full of soap, and he was shivering and I didn't want him to catch pneumonia.

To make it short-it was a living nightmare!!! For both of us. I never ever got to his tangled knotted belly hair, and ended up cutting out chunks of mats on his back and front legs and underarms that I probably could have gotten out gently, if he would have held still. I could have teased them out without any trauma whatsoever, but his constant jumping around and wildness made it impossible and ended up making it painful i'm sure- because he was pulling in the other direction.

We stopped for awhile, I gave him treats, but he was not having it. I'm just not sure what I did wrong. It was so traumatic, I never want to bathe or brush him again. The slightest tug or pull on the hair if the brush or comb meets a knot-- he just jumps to high heaven, (and I know many time there was no pain at all, as I never even put any pressure on the brush at all) and I never even pulled on the tangle, the comb or slicker just meets the tangle and it's over for him! I can't hold it at the root to brush out with the slicker or pin brush because he won't hold still. We are both still recovering. I'm worried this is going to be a BIG problem. :(

Oh no so sorry about the ordeal, it sounds like it was very stressful for both of you! It's one thing to try & work out tangles off a puppy, but doing it in a bath even more difficult...if Milo is tangled & matted over 50% of his body, it's best to get him shaved & start over. If he's had several baths, those mats have shrunk & hardened, needs to be cut off.
I have one that is very sensitive, so I suggested to cut the tangles off instead of trying to work them out. Their hair will grow & you can always even it out later. Like you mentioned, since Milo has giardia, groomers might not take him. Maybe a mobile groomer? If I was near you, I would help you out!

[quote]I have discovered, after YEARS of experimentation, that surprisingly, if I wash and condition and rinse Huey, towel him some, then let him run and roll and act the fool before I try to dry him (without ever brushing or combing his tangly little butt) let him run in circles while I point the dryer at him until he is 2/3 dry, THEN take him to the grooming table and finish drying while combing out tangles, the tangles actually comb out better from dry hair. I used to cover him with conditioner in the tub then comb out tangles before rinsing, but the almost dry method seems to be much better. He still tries to bite me when I pull his hair, but he is much better. Also, Huey freaks during a sink bath, but if I put him in the soaker tub with a few Iinches of h2o, he does much better. I think he is scared of falling and in the tub he feels more secure. .

Both of these are fantastic ideas. I use a grooming table with a noose, but have always just put it on his neck. I also have several life vests from when we had a boat. I may try that, since the feet are the only thing I use a groomer for.

Shelly, In all honesty, he is still very young, and it sounds to me like he needs more 'taming' than anything.... it all takes time. I had a puppy once who freaked out whenever I tried to just pet her along her back! She just wasn't used to humans touching her all over.

I just spent 5 days brushing mats out of my Biewer. I clipped all the ones that didn't show, and I have 2-3 left, on her legs. I just work on her 2-3 times a day, some times I can go longer on her, others not as long. She's a bit cottony and has a ton of coat. I may clip her this spring to save time. We just always end on a 'good note'.

And I finally clipped her nails. Talk about squirmy... she was impossible. I fixed a plate of scrambled eggs and put a few pieces at a time in her bowl on the table... just enough distraction for me to clip a nail or two between bowls. She had nails like Howard Hugh's.. now they're all trimmed and she wasn't the least bit traumatized. And I didn't get bit!

So don't worry... it will get better!

What she said. Also, if you use any kind of scissors be sure to cut away from the skin. It is hard to describe, but try to put the point into the middle part of the knot and cut away from the body.

Thanks so much, I so wish you were near me! :) Just to be clear so there is no misunderstanding, I didn't try to detangle Milo in the bath, all I tried to do was wash him :). I tried to detangle him before the bath on a grooming table using the detangle spray, and it did help, but he doesn't even want me to cut out the mat, he won't even sit still for that. I don't believe his hair is tangled in over 50% of his body, just in certain places, under arms and legs, by his hips (Haunches???), and under the belly. The rest of him may not be totally smooth, but could definitely be managed if he would only let me gently tease out the small knot or tangle. I wonder how his groomer bathed him, cause I'm thinking he's been traumatized before I ever got him.

Have you tried putting him on your lap & cutting off the mats? Turbo used to climb up my arm if I tried to work out a tangle. He was sooo sensitive, I just had to cut it off. TG he has silky hair that hardly tangles now, but it was bad when he was a puppy.
It's best to cut off or shave the arm pit areas & the underbelly, inner thighs. It's a very sensitive area for them. I think it would be best to cut off the tangles that he has now so he won't associate grooming time as ouch time.

I was just going to tell you about putting him on your lap and gentlely working out the mats. While you wait for your brush and high end products to arrive, use a rat tail comb from Sally's and some detangler from Petco or petsmart. Be gentle and make it fun. You are better spending 5 minutes 3-4 times a day than 1 30 minute session.