...and if the airlines had anything to do with it they would all be flown cargo. They are allowing us to take our pets with us. Airlines are not government bodies, they are private companies and we have very little to say on their policies as consumers that will change much. We can take the service they offer or leave it.

OH I wish we could say "leave it" or in part of that famous quote "shove it". But air travel has become so much a part of our life style, when at all possible we do the vote with your $$$$$ thing and don't fly, we drive or stay home, LOL not so hard these days :eek:. I hate to fly.

I know, all we need is one airline to change for a more humane poilicy. Maybe we will all soon be traveling as cargo to, then the crew would not have to deal with us (which is their job) at all !

Oh so true, I feel like cargo when I fly any way, don't you???:rolleyes:

Very interesting thread! I have a service dog - trained, certified and all of that.
If you are in the USA the American Disability Act is the law. No one is allowed to ask you what your disability is -- i.e. no showing pills etc, that is humiliating. They may ask you if the dog performs a necessary service for you, but that is all.

Even with the certification there are issues. Just two days ago I was at the eye doctors with my dog waiting to be seen, when one of the techs rushed up and took me into a room because someone in the waiting room complained about the dog being there. (No one mentioned the two screaming kids in the waiting room who had snotty noses:D). Anyway, I told them that I would leave because I had no desire to cause a problem -- with that the doctor came out and said absolutely not, and I got to be seen with no problems. Soooo, even when everything is ligit there are issues.

My disability is fairly obvious -- I have hearing loss -- so generally I don't have a problem. That said, however, when I go out to eat with the family and am not driving and such I do not usually take her.

I carry the ADA law in my purse on a little card for those who need to be educated and am always polite about it. Now if you are out of the USA you have other problems -- Mexicana Airlines does not have to honor the American Disability Act if they are out out of the US etc. So you have to watch that.

Just a little hint. When I make a reservation for a plane I have learned not to tell them I have a service dog when I make the reservations. I wait a few days or weeks and then call and say I will be bringing my service dog. Reason??? I have been turned down for a reservation several times because I told them I had a service dog at the time of the reservations.

Hope this helps/clarifies.

BTW - training a service dog takes about $8,000 to $10,000 not counting the hotel expenses if it is not included in the price. Most people have grants to pay for the training of both dog and handler.

Airlines
 

I found it very interesting about your little hint, the one concerning the reservations, HOW DARE THEY TURN YOU DOWN for a reservation just because of your service dog :eek:. I am offended, you are more polite than I am, I would be shouting to the roof tops the name of the airlines who did that AND the agent who allowed it!!!! Sorry, it really upsets me, I know the value of the service dog, I was told and I quote "gift from God" was the value per my BFF. I know, emotional, but it's like that for me. :cry:
Hopefully you never again have that problem.

I find that very interesting. I fly southwest airlines, and always will. Reason being.. they are 100% service dog friendly in my experiences. Ever since the first time I was traveling with a service animal they notated my account that I would be accompanied by an assistance animal. Now when I call for a reservation, they just ask if I'm bringing my service dog, and tickets are as good to go. :)

Southwest, that is good to know, I think that when an airlines offers a "service" even though it is what they really should do anyway, everyone should know, so that when someone who doesn't fly regularly, will use that airlines. I know that when we flew US Air to Philly from San Diego, though it was not "service" related, they were very helpful, the stews, even the TSA guys :rolleyes:, ya I know, TSA. So thanks, now I have two airline to choose from or that I know about that do well by the travel with little dogs.

Oh and Kaos used to fly in a crate when he was about 12-16 wks back and forth from NY to AZ with me. He never made a peep, but he was so cute and little, I used to take him out and let him sleep in my lap, as I slept as well. I used to ask the girls next to me to wake me up if he decided to jump down and roam around. :p He never moved though. Every so often a flight attendant would giggle and tell me to hide him. Kaos was too cute for his own good. :cool:

Kaos was too cute for his own good. :cool:[/QUOTE]

LOL do you suppose that's just a guy thing? Or maybe a little dog thing? :p Who cares it worked.

First of all, I think this thread is YT at its best. A possibly controversial topic has been discussed with respect, compassion and first-hand knowledge. I love it. I hope I don't screw it up with my honest question.

I'd never heard of emotional support animals until recently, and I find the idea intriguing. I absolutely believe animals can provide emotional support to people with mental disabilities and should be afforded rights to provide those services in public places.

My problem is more of a question. What's involved in the certification? As near as I can tell from Googling, all you need is a letter from a doctor or mental health therapist. I found some references that says the dog must have some social skills -- can't poop or pee in public places, can't be aggressive, etc. I found one site online that says if you can't get a letter from your doctor, you can pay $114 to be examined online by professionals and receive a letter from them. Not sure how they examine the dog.

But who determines that the dog has the necessary skills? The doctor? Doctors aren't necessarily dog experts. While they may see the calming effect the dog has on the patient in the office, will they put the dog through any testing to ensure it can behave in public?

While any dog can provide a therapeutic service to its owner, not every dog can behave in public. Some people are terrified of dogs of all sizes. Some people are allergic to dogs. Some people just don't like dogs. If emotional support animals are afforded the same privileges of highly trained task-specific service dogs, they should be held up to the same standards of training.

Just my opinion.

As far as emotional support dogs they only require a letter from a doctor, and a vet health certificate to fly. Emotional support animals are not offered the same rights as a service dog. They dont get "public access" as a normal service dog does..with the exception of flying. Being an emotional support dog only provides the owner with the right to move any where, even places that dont allow dogs.

Now are far as other people being terrified/allergic: Those of us with service dogs encounter the same problems. We do what we can do to accommodate others, but when it comes down to it I NEED my service dog, so he will always be by my side. Kaos knows not to ever make a noise or approach someone in public without being told he can greet them.

In general emotional support dogs probably won't have the same amount of training as our service dogs do, but they are also only offered minimal rights.

When these dogs fly I would like to know if they have to be crated? If they do, then I don't see it ever being a problem, because it's like flying a normal dog just free of charge. Now if they don't have to be crated, and it were to act up in flight, I'm not even sure how that would be handled.

THERAPY, ESD, Or SERVICE DOG ?
This is just my opinion. Therapy Dogs make people feel good. Yes, that is a service, but it not keeping someone safe or necessary to provide daily assistance. Service Animals are trained to do a job, and paired with a person to do that special job.
My Zacky (RIP) was a wonderful Therapy Dog we visited local hospitals, VA hosp., Nursing homes, Schools, Senior Day Care and Rehabilitation Units. Zacky was not my Service Dog. I didn't take him where he wasn't wanted or welcome.
On the other hand if he was my Service Dog he would go where ever, I go. IT IS THE LAW and a service dog is trained to function in public.
I don't think ESD should be given Service Dog status unless they are truly trained and certified as a Service Dog. There should be training programs for ESD. People with mental issues, needs are just as valid and real, as a person who is deaf, blind or that needs physical assistance etc.

Google Psychiatric Service Dogs. They will help with training and certification

Even if your Yorkie is not a service dog, flying shouldn't be a problem. I flew with my Joonie twice this month- once domestically from Chicago to Harrisburg, PA and once internationally from Harrisburg to Beijing, China.

United and Korean Air are the only two airlines that allow dogs to fly in-cabin (under the seat in front of you) internationally. I flew United and had no problem at all adding Joonie onto all my flights with me. The extra cost was $125 per flight. It's best to fly economy, because some business and first-class seats aren't set up to be able to slide a carrier in front of you.

Airlines that permit dogs in the cabin
 

I just wanted to add that Alitalia, Continental and US airways allow the carriage of small dogs in the cabin on international and domestic flights.
I think probably lots of European airlines have this policy, but I don't have personal experience with the others it would be best to check.

My service dog sleeps on planes, it is as if he had been tranquilized! (which I would never do). He looks out the window at first and then curls up and sleeps on my lap, I have had so many compliments about his behavior :)
It takes time and effort to train a dog to behave like this and we had a few 'moments' when he was younger but it is so worth it.

I want to throw out there that Southwest allows small dogs/cats to fly in cabin and DO NOT fly animals in cargo. They are also much cheaper than the other airlines, $75 each way, so just $150 is the total cost for Rizzo to fly in cabin with me. And to top it off they no longer require a health certificate from your vet, however they will ask to see your pet on the day of travel to ensure you aren't flying with a sick/in pain animal, or an animal that is likely to cause a problem on the flight. Their reasons for this according to the woman on the phone was because they aren't allowed out of their carriers on the plane so there is no need to have a vet certification they are healthy.

Carriers v on your lap
 

Hi, I took my baby with me on a couple of flights during his training, he was not qualified at that time to be a service dog, the first flight was great and the cabin crew had no problem with Mogwi on my lap as long as he was not bothering the other passengers. The way back was a nightmare, he was only a puppy at that time and the cabin crew decided that he HAD to stay in the carrier under the seat in front of me even though all around (we were in First class) said they did not mind, she would not change her mind and my poor dog cried non stop, he could not understand why he could not be with me. It was awful.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I ALWAYS fly southwest!!! Love them. They were always AWESOME with Kaos. I payed for him every flight until he was licensed. He stayed under the seat, and never made a noise. Once he was licensed it becomes documented with your name that you are flying with a service animal, so they are prepared for check in. No hassle at all. I have even heard of some crews taking your dog between flights to relieve themselves. :)

From FAA's webiste:
Can I be sure that there will be no animals on my flight if an airline does not allow pets in the cabin?
No, you can't be sure. The Department of Transportation (DOT) has rules (14 CFR part 382) (PDF) that require airlines to allow passengers to fly with their service animals in the cabin on all U.S. airlines. Service animals are not pets. They are working animals that assist persons with disabilities. There is no limit to the number of service animals that can be on any flight. Service animals do not need any health certificates to travel and they do not need to be confined in a container or cage.

What kind of general procedures do most airlines have in place?
If an airline allows you to travel with your pet in the cabin, you must follow all FAA regulations. Usually, most airlines have additional policies and procedures for you to follow to make sure that the flight is comfortable for all passengers on the airplane. These additional procedures may include
A limited list of the types of pets that you can bring into the cabin
A limit on the number of pets in the cabin
A limit on the number of pets that may accompany you on the airplane
A requirement that your pet be harmless, inoffensive and odorless
A requirement that your pet remain in the container for the entire flight
A requirement that you be able to produce a recently issued health certificate for your pet


Because service dogs aren't considered pets they aren't required to stay in the container for the entire flight, so if you have the documentation stating that he is a service animal then they can't force you to keep him locked up. Service dogs are trained to provide a service for their human handler, and most if not all cannot do that from inside their container.

Because your dog was just a puppy at the time, and I assume was not yet a service dog, the air crew were correct in making you keep him in his container. Pets are much more unpredictable, especially when in a stressful situation like flying. Personally, I know Rizzo is much more comfortable in his carrier than he is exposed to all sorts of strangers and he would likely freak out.

Just saying, don't get mad at the aircrew for enforcing the rules that are in place for the safety of the passengers and even for your pet. Imagine a flight where you have a 5lb dog freaking out, running under the seats and you're trying to catch him and get him under control. It would be chaos and that is something that no passenger would want to deal with on a flight.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Good post. :)

I had to LOL at the end though. When I flew with Kaos as a pup, I used to take him out during flight. He was only 2lbs and it was a six hour flight, and I couldn't help myself. I used to ask the people next to me to wake me up if he jumped out of my lap, they always used to giggle. :p I know I wasn't allowed, and every time I was asked to put him away I did, because after all there rules are in place for a reason. Luckily Kaos never moved out of my lap on any of the trips, just slept through them all. :)

I think the rules for pet dogs being in a crate and under a seat are in place because of allergies people have. My main problem with the rule is that it seems arbitrary and up the the cabin steward. The part of the above comment that says dogs should not be running about the plan is in fact not a good reason to put them in a crate and under the seat, they can easily be attached to your seat belt using a harness and carabiner, much nicer for the dog and it's human!

Yeah, but it would only take one dog biting incident to put a ban on all pets flying in cabin. Again, the rules are on place to keep owners and pets safe. Dogs get really anxious flying, lots of unfamiliar people and noises so that are much mote likely to percieve a stranger just reaching forward to pull a magazine out of the pouch in front of them ad a threat and snap at them. Service animals are trained to be calm in these types of situations, pets are not, thus it is for safety reasons that PETS are toremain in their carriers safely under the away in front of you.

Oh, and its not because of allergies because I know I'm usually wearing more dander on my clothes from my cat then most small dogs wear on their bodies.

I have read that many people have allergies and I have been told that is the reason airlines require pets to be under the seat. It just seems that the rule/law is not evenly applied. If the cabin crew are dog lovers they will ask the next passenger to you if it bothers them and if they say no then you can have your pet on your lap. It should be one way or the other if serious issues are at stake.
I have an assistance dog so this issue does not apply to me. But I still feel sorry for those who have to put their dogs under the seat, it is better than in the hold though!!

I totally disagree. I don't believe it is arbitrary at all, and having your dog in a carrier under your seat is not inhumane. :confused: I've met a lot of very unsocialized misbaved yorkies (owners fault) and the last thing anyone needs is for any dog to bite someone or get loose on the plane. It is especially stressful for some dogs in flight. I for one like there flight policy for dogs. Just me though.

The difference here is - the person flying with a service dog would not be able to travel (on the plane) with out the specific service that the dog provides for its handler. There are laws that allow for this needed assistance. Pets, although, treasured and loved, do not provide a necessary service for the traveler and therefore do not have the ADA laws to cover their presence.

Airlines, businesses etc, cannot deny the service dog because they provide a required service, but pets do not enjoy that acceptance - at least not in this country.

I would want to correct the behavior of any pet that decides to bite, usually a fear response. I just think that putting a dog who normally has the run of the house under the seat in a very small box (it has to be small or it won't fit especially now with the addition of video equipment under the seats too) would seem to the dog like a punishment. Also, by arbitrary, I mean that the application of this rule (the enforcement if you like) is up to the flight attendant in your cabin of service, I have seen some enforce it and some not, so it is arbitrary.

If you don't have an ailment or actually need a service dog isn't this morally wrong?

This is taking advantage of the system...I don't think it's ethical. What about people that actually need assistance from dogs, like blind people or people who do have severe anxiety or other problems? If every dog owner started doing this it would be harder for disabled people. Think about a cabin full of pets. Where do we draw the line?

I am not sure what you are referring to? Of course people should not lie about the status their dog has, I just wish that the US airlines were as understanding at the European ones.