test results...advice please!
 

My baby had a small seizure the other day and so the breeder suggested I get her tested for liver shunts...the bile acid test came back elevated but under a 100. Does anyone have any suggestions at all as to what could be wrong and is it a hopeless case when they develop liver problems like this :confused: I have read that diet and medicine can help:confused: :confused: Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! We have only had her for a month :(

I have no advice, but there are many on here that can help. I hope your little girl gets feelling better soon.

Seizures are so scary... I hated seeing Jewel having them. I don't know much about livershunts but there are plenty here on YT that does.

Hope you get some sound advise from YT and your doctor.

Best Wishes

join yahoo group
 

I don't know much about the numbers you have recieved from your test. I can suggest that you would join the yahoo group for liver and MVD. You will find a lot of good advice and a wealth of information. You can find out information on diets and other things you can do to keep the stress of the liver. If you need any further help to find this group you can pm me. All my best. I hope your little one is ok.

I feel that if it were me...If you have the money to take her in & pay hundreds to get the seizures stopped everytime thats good. But brain damage, blindness etc can occur. I know even if it costs $10,000 to care for one of our furbabies & they live 2 more years it wouldnt feel like a waste of money...but it can put a financial burden on your family thats not needed. And though you are glad you had her for 2 more years, credit card debt, no savings, etc can be hard. Also it depends on how your spouse supports the decision. No one likes to decide if any animal should live or die. Dogs normally only act sick when they are very close to death, thats why so many people say 3 days ago I had a happy healthy dog so I thought & now its dead...They dont mind the pain because they love you so much, so they continue to play, take their treat & hide it because they cant eat it & you just dont know til its to late:( I would see what the breeder was willing to do as far as another pup or refund and what you & yourspouse thinks is best for you financial etc. If you do decide to PTS. Just give her the best day ever. Play, lots of treats, a long nap in your lap-these things are doggie heaven & then let her go w/those memories. Dont wait til she is in a full blown seizure & you are panicing & rushing her to the vetfor the 2nd, 5th, 10th time & they tell you they cant stop them, you say its time but think yesterday she was fine but I worked 12hrs, had to grocery shop, do the bills, then went to bed, I wasnt ready for her to go. Its just so heart breaking:( Very hard. You know a person can look at you & say the pain is to great please pull the plug, but animals cant. We just have to see what we can do financially & give them the best possiblr treatment & attention until we decide. I dont know how others feel, but in rescue I have lost just a few pups & one to seizures, on his second seizure his veins collapsed & they couldnt get them stopped. I rescued his whole litter (basset/spaniel mix)from the pound for $10, adopted out his siblings on a alter contract & $30 for shots/worming, after his first $600 vet bill & then the next time although I would have paid again it just wasnt working, and look at how many other pound puppies could have been saved w/that money. He was worth it, but it made more sence to save other healthy pups (that otherwise get the gas chamber here:mad: ) I decided from then on that if any pups had a seizure they would be PTS:( Unless it stopped after some nutra-cal because that would just be low sugar & could be easily managed. I know your situation is different but I'm sure most people here that have been in the situation dont regret the money they spent to keep their pet alive another day, month, year, but may think it would have been more wise & ultimately less devastating to have let go & put that money toward a healthy pup that is waiting on a new home too. I really am so sorry for what you are going thru. I decided I was only getting a adult for myself to try to avoid this kind of situation, I see so many here. God give you the strength & wisdom to do whats best for yours.

Take her for an ultrasound to check if she has an external shunt which is operable and your puppy will be fine after that . If theshunt is internalit can be managed with proper diet and medication . pls don't pts

Any number of things can cause a slightly elevated bile acid level. What course of action did your vet recommend? Just curious, did your vet do a complete blood profile or just the bile acid? If the bile acid was only slightly elevated, I would watch him closely and repeat the blood work in a few weeks. If your pup has a liver shunt serious enough to cause seizures she will probably have some other odd behaviors and characteristics such as:

being extra small

not eating well

walking in circles

butting her head against a wall

acting confused

pain

The odd behaviors usually occur about 2 hours after eating. The primary function of the liver is to remove the by-products produced by digesting protein -- ammonia. When the liver doesn't function properly the body is actually poisened by the ammonia overload the seizures, odd behavior and pain are a result of the ammonia poisioning.

Good luck. Trust your vet. If you don't have one you trust completely, then change vets.

I responded to your PM. There is a lot they can do and it may not even be liver shunt but just a one time deal. I will pray for you and Callie.

Any good news???
 

I just wanted to say that my advice early would be more for if your vet said that his life would be very painful, short & expensive. I dont really know what the numbers mean when it comes to shunts. I hope you find someone that can help you soon. I really wish you & your little one the best. Please keep us updated.

update
 

Callie is normally a very active, playful puppy :animal36 and aside from that one small seizure and a resp. infection she has not displayed any other signs of illness or signs of LS. She eats ALOT, is gaining weight and never acts disoreinted etc. The vet did do other blood work as well which all came back pretty normal with the exception of one liver enzyme (alkaline phosphotate?) that was slightly higher but the vet said that it can also come from their growing bones as well. We are taking her to an internal specialist next week and will see what he says. I am thinking her condition is probably not severe(has a great quality of life right now) and that we can manage with diet and medicine. She is our baby and we will do everything within our means to help her :) Does anyone know if you have to get prescriptions from the Dr. for special food etc. or can you order from somewhere? Thanks so much for everyone's advice and help :aimeeyork

We had a bile acid test last Oct. From there we has an ultra sound. The specialist couldn't see anything. He told me not to change her food, & to keep doing what I have been. Piper goes back in for another bile acid test in April. She shows no signs of liver shunt except, right after she eats, she gets a burst of energy. She was quite elevated to. 200 fasting & 300 after. The specialist told me not to worry right now. I'll find out more in April.

Cant eating ALOT be a sign of a problem? I know the pup I talked about earlier with the seizures ate a lot too. Maybe a neurological thing. Brain damage causes them to not know when they are full. Not saying thats whats wrong w/your pup. It just reminded me of that.

I don't think you can get prescription food without a prescription online, but I do know that if you're looking to put her on a lower protein diet just until you see the specialist so she's less likely to have an episode (if it is her liver), Solid Gold Holistique Blendz is sold at PETCO. It won't harm her to be on a slightly lower protein food, but check with your vet to make sure.

A good group to join for LS is on Yahoo http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/L...d_MVD_Support/

clarification
 

I suppose I should clarify what I meant by eating ALOT...she is eating more than her recommended 1/2 cup a day but its not extreme. I would say she eats about 3/4 of dry food a day.

I do not know about liver shunts but I do know about dealing with doggie seizures....this is managable!! There is a wonderful website with great information and real help from actual people. I will look up that site if you'd like the info-just pm me and I'll go find it in my emails.
The medicine we give Lexxi is very inexpensive and we have resorted to liquid because she is so hard to give pills too, and liquid is more expensive and I think i still only spend maybe $30 on that bottle, maybe once a month.
Seizures are scary - it makes me so sad to watch, but I'm telling you, they can be under control. And my baby clusters, which means she usually cannot stop but luckily they have not happend THAT much.

If she does have a liver problem, you might notice that she's most affected after eating...That's usually when they may have a seizure or rub their head or other behaviors like that may take place.

Rather than immediately thinking liver shunt, I would also check stool sample for parasites and bacteria culture on the stool sample as well.
Usually there is some diahrrea with these issues but I don't know if there could be a problem with no diahrrea. I have seen and heard of mild seizures from coccidia infection and also seen it with a bad bacteria flourish in the instestine. Both were cured with the correct medication and never looked back.
If you do treat with a wormer for parasites or meds for a bad bacteria, don't bother doing a BA test for a while as meds can throw off the results and Albon for coccidia is especially notorious for giving high BA results that come down once it is out of the system for a while.

stool
 

Callie has had two stool sample tests both coming back fine but I wonder if maybe her antibiotic that she is on for her resp. infection could possibly skew results????? We are seeing internal specialist Thursday and am very interested in what he has to say :confused:

I would bet it would. The reason you have to give medications a certain number of times a day is that the liver works to clear it from the system. That's one of the functions of the liver.
I would mention it for sure to your specialist.
When did you stop the meds? Some dogs and some breeds are sensitive to some antibiotics. it can show itself in various ways. Don't know if it can cause mild seizures but I wouldn't be surprised.

Good thinking!! When my yorkie was a pup, he had a severe case of coccidia as well, and he had seizures (not convulsions, but like staring into space, walking sideways as if drunk, etc.). Months later we found out that he also had a liver shunt, but the coccidia caused a lot of his problems earlier on as well.

medicine
 

well the funny thing is she has been on antibiotics for weeks now...when we first got her she was being treated for coccidia and then two weeks later started on the clavomox for her resp. infection. she has to stay on the clavomox for two weeks (almost finished) but everytime I ask my vet if anything could cause false results on that test she keeps assuring me no:confused: ....BUT I agree with you guys that she needs to be retested at some point. Also I say it was a seizure...she was shivering/shaking and started foaming/drooling alot, lasted about 2min. max and then she acted like she was fine?????? Sound a like a seizure to you guys or something else:icon5: :icon5:

the drooling and so forth can be indicative of a seizure...Seizures happen in many different ways.

Finally a diagnosis
 

ok so just to update everyone...yesterday Callie had an appt. with the internal specialist who was very knowledable and spent a lot of time answering my questions and going over everything in her file. Since her bile acid levels were lower (under 100) he said that he really didnt feel like a shunt was the issue but just to be sure he suggested a protein C blood test which we did. They sent the blood off to Cornell University for testing (does a lot of liver research there) and today he called with the news. Her protein C levels were normal :D He said if she had a shunt they would def. come back low. So that is the good news...but he also said that since we can now rule out PSS that he strongly feels that she has MVD which he said most dogs live without you ever knowing they even have it. The only symptom of it is higher bile acids. He said that her foaming episode (he wasnt convinced it was a seizure after all) has something more to do with a trachael abnormality that showed up on the x-ray..again supposedly common in Yorkies (tracheal collapse) and he said sometimes they grow out of it. Still I was quite surprised to hear this added bit of info. considering we had never even thought anything might be wrong with her throat that is causing some of these issues. For that he said he didnt think it was serious but of course to keep an eye out for more foaming etc. Anyone else have experience with trachea deformities/collapse :confused: As for the MVD he said to keep her diet the same and no medicine needed. I am still wondering though if it would hurt to switch to a lower protein diet? Anyone have experience with MVD (microvascular dsplysia):confused: All in all he said that even though she does have a liver "issue" to consider this to be very good news since she can live a normal, good quality of life with no medicine etc.!!! We are so relieved and want to thank everyone for their thoughts and prayers going through this all:animal36 . Now just to learn everything I can about MVD :rolleyes:

Prayers are going your way, Hope Calli does better.

I responded to your Pm as well but for others who may be interested, Cali has mild MVD and I just watch her protein level even though the vet said she didn't have any restrictions. I just try and keep her at 18-21 % protein. Some treats are very high in protein so I read labels before buying. I am so glad Callie is ok.

I agree...I also sent you a PM. A food that is between 18%(Solid Gold Holistique Blendz) - 21% (Natural Balance Venison & Brown Rice or Duck & Potato) would be good for her. In fact, I feed my maltese who doesn't have liver issues the Natural Balance. Remember, something caused her to drool and have a seizure, and you already know her bile acid levels were elevated. The easiest thing to adjust is her diet and treats. Some examples of treats that wouldn't be too high in protein are Vitakraft yogurt drops or Pupcorn. Good luck, and I'm so happy to hear that Callie is going to be just fine :)