:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
Take heart....I know the gut wrenching emotions you are trying to deal with now....everything said above, I totally agree with....slow, deep breaths and try to compose your thoughts and emotions, and then clear your mind for your meeting tomorrow.....you and your baby are on our minds and in our hearts.....

I am so sorry to read this. I lost a baby to kidney disease a little over three years ago. There were some really good days in there during the last few months and the last two weeks of her life she really perked up and enjoyed good quality of life for the most of the days.

Enjoy those days and know that you are the one who knows what is best for your baby. I tried to stay true to what I believed during the last few months of her life. A friend told me that I would know when my baby was ready to go. After months of her and I fighting for her life, I truly felt the moment when she was finished fighting and ready to be released from the struggle.

It was a devastating experience, but I am comforted by the fact that I stayed true to what was right for her and the love that she and I shared. My vet had suggested we put her two sleep a full two months before her death, which would not have been the right time.

After my baby died, I discovered a vet who does at home hospice care. When my mom's dog was dying, we engaged this vet service and it was a God send. The vet assessed my mom's dog's quality of life, pain level, and provided appropriate palliative care. This was after my mother's vet had proposed that she put her dog to sleep---and my mom and her dog had six months of wonderful time together with the support of the hospice vet.

It sounds like you have a wonderful vet, but I did want to share the experience that we had with the hospice vet. After my baby's vet basically told me that there was no more that he could do, I do think that I would have benefited from the support of the hospice vet---someone who could have assessed the situation at home and could have provided palliative care. For some dogs there is a window of time in between when there is nothing that can be done medically and when they are ready to leave this world.

My heart breaks for you and your baby. Be comforted by the wonderful love you are giving him and the happy life he continues to enjoy with you and in your loving care. Many prayers for you both.

What is the antibiotic treatment for? Would an oral antibiotic be just as effective and cost less? Vet care is expensive and I am all for cutting costs where I can, as long as it doesn't compromise the treatment. $244 does seem a bit high for a shot and blood draw. At my vet clinic, we'd stop in, the techs would handle the blood draw and the vet would likely give the shot at the same time. We wouldn't be charged an office call for that.

At the end of the day it would be my dog - my decision - especially if I had my own income. But if finances are a consideration there is nothing wrong with trying to trim costs where you can, especially for long term treatment. Maybe there is a compromise that could be worked out between you, your vet and your husband.

Diana

Thursday's vet visit
 

Bentley and I went to the vet today and good news! Since he is eating (on and off), has maintained his weight, is well-hydrated, and is acting like his spunky self, the vet said we didn't need a blood test. We have gone to the oral antibiotics. I talked to the vet about Sunday's mouth foaming, and he said it could be from the nausea and excess salivation, especially since he rebounded so well on Monday. We will definitely do a chem 17 blood test next visit on May 29th, unless his condition changes.

Yeah!!! Happy dance.

Teeth
 

The antibiotics are for his teeth. We discovered the kidney problem when they did a pre-anesthetic blood test to have his teeth cleaned. Thanks for your support.:animal-pa

Vet visit.
 

Wow, what happy news!! :)
He must be doing well for the vet to refrain from doing the blood tests and leaving the next visit until the end of May. Yeh! Did he not think it worth giving you anti nausea meds should Bentley go off his food again? If he really has kidney disease it seems to be in the very early stages and that is great news.
Hoping little Bentley continues on this good path and that you are feeling less stressed now. Please keep us posted on how he is. Thank you for the updates, we so appreciate knowing how he is doing.

Could you please post the hill's food recipe? My Taz does not like k/d at all.. Thanks

dog
 

That zd is not tasty food. My vet said to add a little egg white and steamed carrots. My Spud will turn his nose up his nose to it. If I hand feed him in little meatball form he will eat. It is a struggle though. Don't forget to get the zd biscuits. SPUD EATS ONE AFTER HIS WALK. I hope Bentley is better. I m a retired teacher. Bless you for the job you do with children.

As for the K/D, I have never had a pup like that stuff. I also tried that stew that they recently came out with and no way would they eat it.

Instead of K/D I use Purina N/F .. it is the equivalent of Hill's K/D . My Olivia is on it and she likes it. She is a picky little one.

Happy to hear Bentley is improving! :)

Hill's home made k/d recipe
 

Instant Rice, white, cooked 1 1/3cups
ground beef 80%/20%, lean, cooked 1/4 lb precooked wt.
egg, grade A, small, boiled 1/2, chopped
bread, white 2 slices
oil, vegetable 1/2 tsp
calcium carbonate 1/4 tsp
dash of salt, if desired

I boil Minute Rice in Swanson chicken broth and leave out the salt. I also toast the bread and crumble it into a blender. Also, retain any fat from the ground beef and add it to the mixture. I also pulverize the calcium and add it to the mixture the day of feeding. When I reheat, I always add a little more chicken broth. I know this adds sodium, but I figure it is better to get him to eat something than to have him starve to death.

So far he is doing okay. He has maintained his weight. Some days he eats and others he doesn't. I want to try the medication for nausea mentioned in previous posts.

That diet is not balanced and I would not use it for any pup, never mind a sick one. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but this is not a "Hill's" diet...it is someone's "version" or a knock off so to speak. There are no supplements.

I highly suggest that you either feed commercial prescription food....try the Purina NF if your vet approves OR do a consult with a vet nutritionist for a recipe.

diet
 

This is what my vet sent me as a home made Hill's k/d diet. He does want us to supplement with an iron vitamin, which we will start after the next visit. There was a disclaimer at the bottom that home made diets may not be as balanced as commercially produced food. My vet is very pro-Hill's. I will ask about other brands that you have suggested.:confused:

I am not a nutritionist, but I can tell you right now this is not a balanced diet and it should have a disclaimer for sure!.. and I never heard of simply adding an iron vitamin.

He may be pro Hill's but this is NOT a Hill's diet and IMO should not be referred to as such. Very misleading.

I may be dead wrong on this diet. Someone just told me it is balanced. I guess I stand corrected. My apologies to all.

Let me add this. My first experience with diet in a renal failure pup was years ago and I could not get the pup to eat anything. He also had pancreatitis, so it made it doubly hard to find a dog food that would work for him. One would set off the kidneys and the others would set off the pancreatitis.

My vet suggested I do a consult with a vet at Texas A&M ... he has since retired but he was wonderful! He made up a diet for my pup and my vet put him on Mirtazapine and he ate like a little piggy. This diet, and every other one that I have had formulated for other pups, had multi vitamins in it.... the newer ones use Balance It. I still think this diet above may be not quite as balanced as it should be, but I don't usually say I know something if I don't know for sure. That is the only reason I have changed my stance here. A couple of people messaged me, so I felt I should explain.

Would I feed this to any of my pups? NO. I would never use a diet that was found on the internet unless I absolutely knew the source. I personally don't do anything posted on the internet without checking it out thoroughly as to the source and validity.

What is missing?
 

Well, it must seem very obvious to you that something is missing. What? With kidney disease, protein must be limited, of course.:confused:

Kidney disease home made diet
 

Attachment 409377

This is what my vet sent me. I will ask about supplements on the 29th when we go for Bentley's 3rd blood test.

Well, for starters that diet is formulated for a 40 lb dog.

Like I said, I am not a nutritionist. I don't feed my pups anything other than dog food or a diet forumlated specifically for them by a vet nutritionist.

Of course
 

I agree with you about the weight. I weigh the food and feed both dogs 5 oz. of food twice a day(2.5 oz apiece, but Porsche, 5lbs., always eats more). Whatever they leave gets mixed with the remainder of the uneaten stored food.

I will say that I felt a little attacked by your posts. I am following my vet's advice.

dog
 

About hills zd diet my Spud has been on that and it is not very tasty. I added boiled egg white and steamed carrots and had to hand feed him. I called my vet and he said OK let's try royal canin. Yes it is expensive but so is vet bills if the dog won't eat. My Spud loves that food. He gets the dry hydrolyzed protein for small dogs. Plus the wet. It's balanced and tasty. Just hope our precious yokes get the best food. My dog is so much better. Try this food with a vet prescription.

I am not attacking you. I am merely commenting about something. I sometimes disagree with my vets ... and I ask a lot of questions. We must remember that all professionals can make errors from time to time. Not saying yours is...just saying that to just blindly follow because someone is licensed is not always the answer. We must always be educated consumers...clients, not patients. My vets and doctors don't feel threatened by my questions at all.....they actually welcome them.

Hoping for the best for you and little Bentley. I lost my Yorkie, Tiffany, to kidney disease. They told me there was nothing they could do and sent me home with fluids. She lived for 4 years after that! This is such precious time we have with them. I have my Yorkie, Jaya, who is 5 years younger than Tiffany and now is 13, 3lbs, stops eating from time to time which always scares me. Since we switched to Royal Canin, we have had fewer hunger strikes. When she wont eat,a bit of honey or NutraCal gets her started again. Treasure every day, I'm sure you do!! Prayers for you and Bentley.

Karen, I'm very sorry you felt attacked. I think the intent all along - and from everyone - was to support you and help little Bentley. Ladyjane is correct, though, in saying that just because a vet is a vet doesn't mean they're always right. I had an excellent vet when my Scooby was diagnosed with kidney disease. She gave him six months or less though, and didn't offer me an alternative. I didn't much like that prognosis and ran screaming down the road! I did some research of my own, then found a vet I could work with and that would work with me to treat his kidney disease instead of waiting for the inevitable. My Scooby lived almost four more years, and was over 16 when we lost him.

As for the diet your vet prescribed, I don't necessarily think it's a terrible diet. It may seem unbalanced for the average dog but dogs with CRF have different nutritional needs. It does seem to have been written a long time ago though, and not necessarily taking into consideration more current research in the treatment of canine kidney disease. Unless your dog has very end stage disease or protein leaking into his urine, it is more important to limit phosphorous than protein. I would also be careful with feeding a toy breed dog a diet that had that much fat in it because of the threat of pancreatitis. You could clean up the diet a lot by substituting a clean, high quality protein such as skinless, boneless chicken thigh for the fatty ground beef, feeding the whole egg white and tossing the yolk (which is high in fat and phosphorous) in the garbage, switching out the instant rice for sticky (glutinous) rice, which is much lower in phosphorous, adding a good quality Omega 3 like salmon oil instead of the vegetable oil, omitting the salt. You can make your own tasty chicken broth by stewing the chicken thighs and reserving the juice. Put it in the fridge and then skim the fat off the top. Then you can control what's in the broth, as most brands usually have both sodium and onion powder. I always added a handful of carrots and string beans to the chicken because it makes for a more tasty broth and adds a few vitamins. Just a few thoughts to run by your vet.

My Scooby wouldn't touch the RX kidney diets either and he liked his diet switched up to something different every day or two. After paying for a few nutritionist diets that he quickly lost interest in and also trying Balance It, I ended up mixing and matching the ingredients from all of those diets, adding my own supplements and making my own diet. Surprise. He actually thrived on my terrible cooking and his kidney disease improved!

Again, I'm sorry you felt attacked, Karen. I think everyone here is on your side and Bentley's side.

Hugs,

Diana

Thank you
 

I totally understand about asking questions. The irony of this whole thing is that I lost my mother to end stage kidney disease 18 years ago. Her last months were spent in misery. I didn't always agree with those doctors and always asked many questions as my mother's advocate. I am once again in the same position with my babies.

Thank you for your suggestions to change the diet a little. I will definitely try your suggestions. I understand your reasons now why a diet for a 40 lb dog can not simply be portioned out and then be suitable for one of our tiny ones. I know my vet is like the general practitioner and doesn't know everything. Before I can ask questions, I must be informed. So, thank you all for the information, help, and support. :p

Karen, I am so sorry about your mom. I have a sister in law that lost her kidneys to diabetes. She lived on dialysis for over three years until my niece turned 18 and was able to donate one of her kidneys to her mother. It was a hard 3 years for my SIL but she is doing well now.

DogAware.com Health: Kidney Disease in Dogs

The link above is a good place to start to educate yourself about canine kidney disease. The information is pretty accurate and up to date. You are right, in that without basic knowledge it is pretty difficult to ask the right questions when you are discussing Bentley's situation with your vet.

There is a lot of bogus info on the internet so you have to be careful to question everything you read, but there is good info out there too. Feel free to send me a PM if you'd like a few more good resources, and I would be happy to send them to you.

Sending good thoughts for little Bentley. I hope he is feeling well.

Diana

3rd blood test
 

We spent part of Sunday an all of Monday watching Bentley throw up, a lot! So, we went today and found out his BUN is up to 109 and Crea is 2.1. He hasn't been drinking. The vet mentioned euthanasia for the first time, though it has been on my mind. He gave Bentley subq fluids. By 5 pm Bentley is greatly improved and ate a great supper. I hope his improved state continues. I will keep all informed.

Keeping Bentley and you in my thoughts and prayers.....

Karen, I also have both you and Bentley in my prayers. I hope he continues to feel and eat well. Bentley's BUN is very high so I am sure the sub q fluids make him feel much better. I don't know how you feel about it, but its very easy to learn to administer fluids yourself at home and it only takes a few minutes. I'm pretty squeamish and couldn't imagine myself doing it, but it was only uncomfortable for me the first time or two. The fluids extended my little guy's life by an extra two years.

Let us know how Bentley is tomorrow.

Diana

dog kidney disease
 

My Spud is 14yrs and is having kidney disease problems. He has lost weight. I had him to my vet and they gave him the sub q fluids. He is eating a bit of chicken and rice with some egg white added. I hate to give the sub q at home. He is so thin and I know it will hurt. How long will it keep him going. I did it with a poodle and she didnt last much longer. I pray for anyone with this horrible disease. I trust my vet to help me with this. Ole Spud just wants to be with me. He is the sweetest and I cry alot thinking of this.