So no blood test either? I would think an ANA would be done first, even before a biopsy. Is animal medicine that much different then human medicine? Well anyway, my prayers are with Brandi, always.

You have to do what you feel is best, Dawn!! You know how to contact me if you ever need to talk.

Sorry I forgot about that part, they cant be done until the infection and antibiotics are out of her system. Hopefully at our two week check up. They did say that the results can be indecisive.

Wow sad thread. Pup needs a specialist.

Update: All day yesterday she didn't seem to have much of an apatite but I managed to hand feed her some of the moistened kibble. This morning she ate an entire bowel on her own, that progress. She has her first dose of the antibiotics with no change in the infection. Some but not all of the swelling in her throat and glands has gone down. The last time it took two full days (48 hrs) before I saw any change so I expect to see a change by tomorrow late afternoon.

Doc has also suggested Fish Oil supplements, in studies done it has shown to have some affects to improve blood flow and blood vessel function. So, I am open to trying it if it will help her.

Fish Oil Supplements May Ease Lupus

I hope you see some improvement and that Brandi is feeling better soon.

Just picked up some of the Fish Oil capsules 360mlg and they are Huge ("1) I think we are going to have to wait on those until she is feeling much better. Not sure is she will swallow them whole or as willingly as she does the other meds. so this should be an interested attempt.

They are oil filled gel caps, has anyone ever given them or anything similar to your pups? If so how . . ?

Break the capsules open and squeeze the oil onto Brandi's food. That is what I do with my boys' fish oil.

Hoping for some good news...

I just stick a pin into the fish oil pill and squeeze the oil either into food or a spoon to lick.

I've just had a chance to read this thread in full. It makes me very sad to see how both Brandi and Dawn must be suffering.

Just to clarify, a specialist is totally different than a general vet. They see these difficult presentations all the time and know how to deal with them. Seeing a specialist for this problem is no different than a human seeing an oncologist for cancer rather than their family practictioner. The OP could take Brandi to a specialist while on the present antibiotics and steroids and the specialist, most probably, from Dawn's oral history and her vet's records, along with his/her findings, could formulate a better organized plan for this pup than to just "guess and see" which medications and dosages might work. If the present medications are correct and the dosages are what Brandi needs, then Dawn can rest assured that she is doing the right thing. If not, then take the specialists, expert opinion and try that. This certainly seems like a win-win scenario for everyone to me. I don't understand why this would cause anyone added stress. If it were me, this would be the way to alleviate stress.

In light of the fact that AID is a lifetime disease, my thoughts would be that the sooner one figures out the best way to deal with it and it's flare ups, the better off one would be. I know you love your baby - my prayers are with you and Brandi....

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Well said....

Just want to add that a Specialist has had an additional 4 years of college compared to a GP, in his/her specialty alone.

Also read the links.... this disease is extremely rare in dogs, knowing this I would push for a definitive diagnosis. Although the ANA may be indecisive, with this disease, depending on how well the steroids are working, it could show positive or negative... It does take time for ANAs to show in the blood, it also takes time for the steroids to fix the problem. Trying to say this may be a test that will need to be done at intervals throughout her treatment in order to monitor her progress.

I'd consider getting Dr Sisson's input on her condition, as he's a world renown specialist in the field. He's very reasonable, and does phone consultations (with your vet).

Yes, and that is what we are trying to do . . it just so happens that during that process of trying to find out the proper dose of the steroids it became apparent that going from 15 to 10 mlg was not enough. Which caused the flair up. She in now on a larger dose of 25mlg including the antibiotics until the flair up is over and than we go back down the to 15 mlg. Once we get her on a regulated dose of steroids we move on to the next best treatment which would include additional medications so that the steroids would not have to be taken on a daily basis. We just haven 't gotten to that point yet.

Update: She is eating, taking meds with no issues. the swelling is not as bad to day as it was on day one.

I also just got of the phone with Dr. Breen's office (thank you for the link Carolyn) to see if they had any other insight that would help me better understand our options. They confirmed that yes the steroids can cause issue in getting a correct diagnosis if not read by a Dermatophytosis. Plus any ANA blood work would only help in keeping track of the disease as it progresses and would eventually affect her internal organs. We had the blood work done on the third visit to the vets office and it showed only a slight elevation in her kidneys. They also said exactly what my vet said that there are other drugs that can be added to the steroid so that they would not have to be taken as often because of the damage that can be done from prolonged use. They said that they normally subscribe a med called Imuran. Not sure if that was the one that my vet mentioned but more than likely it is.

Speaking with them reassures me that we are on the right track !! We go back in two weeks for a check up.

Azathioprine (Imuran)
 

Azathioprine (Imuran) Wow what a nasty little drug this one is . . . scares me to think about the possibility of her having to be on it. :(

01 Azathioprine (Imuran) - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company!

Keeping Brandi in my thoughts and prayers Dawn. Praying she will get better soon!!

((HUGS)) to you as well, keep strong for her.

I'm so glad to hear Brandi is doing better. I know how happy that must make you. I hate the ups and downs of having a sick baby.

The point of my post was to point out that by going to a specialist, you might be able to forgo the testing of dosages of the steroids and antibiotics because the specialists have seen these problems before and know what dosages to use...therefore, having fewer flare-ups, causing less trauma and problems for Brandi. I have always found that going to a specialist has given me comfort and confidence in the treatment of my precious babies. Believe it or not, it has always even saved me money because we have been able to find what works much, much faster and more efficiently than with my general vet. It sounds like your little one will need more technical care in the future - i.e. drugs, bloodwork, etc. that might be better dealt with by someone that does this all the time and that is very familiar with how these drugs interact with each other. An internist will work hand in hand with your vet after you all get a health plan ironed out...Good luck to you and Brandi!

Thank you ladies your support and prayers are very much appreciated. :)



Update: She's had her 3rd dose of the antibiotics this morning. The swelling in her glands and throat are down about 80% which means no more drooling. Her lips are not as irritated or swollen. She continues to eat and drink plenty. She has not been lethargic or seem depressed in any way this time, Thankfully.

It is a huge relief that this did not go into a full blow huge infection like when she was first sick with this. It is such a relief that we now know what the proper dose for her is. I'm certain that she will be on the 15mlg, which seems to be the appropriate dose for her. There is no in between unless we go to 12.5 mlg but doubtful that that will be the case. My vet warned me and I was totally prepared that during the process there could be another flair up, it was bound to happen. It only took a few short days for the infection to get really bad, so there is no hesitation when it comes to getting her into the vet when I see any sign of the infection again.

I just want my baby girl to get better, I know she will never be the same ever again and that truly Breaks my Heart knowing that this is something she will have to deal with for the rest of her life. I just hope and pray that with the proper medications we can and will control this disease from taking over her entire mind, body and soul. There is so much more research that I need to do in order to fully understand the effect of and the steps we need to take to control this disease and what to expect in the future.

I agree 100% with your insight. Thanks for sharing!!! I will continue to pray for Brandi to find relief...get this disease under control...with the absolute minimal amount of flare-ups. Remember Dawn, you are her voice...speak up for her...do what's right and best for her. Hope she continues to improve...

Dawn, I've not read this whole thread but I'm sorry to see that Brandi's been so sick. :( I'm happy to see that she's been feeling better and the her meds are working. I know our hearts just break when are babies are not well. I'll pray for your little girl.

I am glad Brandi is feeling better sending prayers and best wishes for her continued improvement.

Thank you to everyone who has shown Brandi and I your love and support during this difficult time. It is very much appreciated.

Update: Brandi is doing very well, the swelling in her throat and glands is down. The red inflamed lip in much better today. I am so thankful that it did not spread to the inside of her mouth this time. Now that the infection is improving she can breath out of her nose again and is able to rest much more comfortably!

Boy is she in need of a good soaking in the tub, she is one stinky little girl ! :)

So happy to hear the updated news!! Will be keeping Brandi in our thoughts for a 100% recovery!! ((hugs))

I'm glad that Brandi is doing better. Sending get well hugs and prayers to her.

My thoughts, prayers and healing vibes for Brandi!!!

So happy to see that Brandi is doing well! Bless her heart! Sounds like a very complicated disease and I'm so sorry Brandi got this. Hugs to you! Prayers for Brandi!

This is obviously very serious, so I hesitate to even throw thoughts out there, but...

It sounds lie a form of stomatitis. Your vet may have diagnosed it as this; however, there are many causes (lupus being just one of them). Other diseases need to be ruled out before this is written off as an incurable autoimmune disease. Most notably, lepto...

Mouth Inflammation and Ulcers (Chronic) in Dogs | petMD

Antibiotics and/or steroids may work for awhile, but with an actual diagnoss treatment can be tailored to try and fix the problem.

I am the last one to go to specialists because I usually find it unnecessary, but there is a time and a place.

Well I, for one, am the first to go to a specialist, but that is because I come from a long line of people docs and I'd be afraid not to! I definitely agree with you on on this one. Unfortunately, trial and error may work for a while but the consequences are often more costly for both Mom and pup in more ways than just dollars!

Doubtful that Lepto is the cause, they are all given a Lepto shot every spring. My vet also checked for any abscessed tooth or other things in her mouth and found none. There are a few similarities and symptoms from the link you gave on (CUPS) but very few. Its still something worth looking into. I'll mention it to my vet, Thank you!

Update: The antibiotics are working, slow but steady. Just doesn't seem fast enough for me thou, I want her Better like Now ! She has been attempting to eat her regular kibble but for now still prefers the watered down kibble. I've started her on the Fish Oil and she took right to it. Something new that she has been doing is that at times she licks her paws and legs excessively to the point of being totally soaked in her own saliva. Which is another sign of the SLE disease. I'm keeping a close eye on her for any progression or change in her symptoms. Hoping we can proceed with the blood work soon so that we can find some answers.

The symptoms listed are not the only ones. Pussy ocular and nasal discharge is another symptom. Stonatitis and gingivitis are not the same. An abscessed tooth does not need to be present.

The lepto vaccine is not very effective. Also, there is a long list of other causes.

Thanks for the update Dawn. I happy to see Brandi's eating and is improving. I'll continue to keep her in my prayers.