Heart Murmur/Collapsed Trachea
 

Hi fellow Yorkie Lovers, First time on site and looking for some help please.

I own a 12 year old male Yorkie (BUD), he is a normal fit, healthy dog, with good appetite and loves excercise. However about two years ago he was diagnosed with a grade 3 heart murmur, which we were told wouldn't necessarily cause him any problems. He was fine up until a few months ago when he started to have coughing fits, they have got progressively worse and he now sounds as if he is trying to cough something up (which he doesn't), it is a real hacking sound. However once he does it he is fine again. It usually lasts for about 15 - 20 seconds and can happen any time night or day, when he gets excited or when he is sleeping, he can just wake up, have a coughing fit then go back to sleep again. The vet seems unsure what is wrong, an x-ray showed no damage to trachea but an enlarged heart which is apparently consistent with the heart murmur. She tried him on tablets Vetmedin and Lasix for this which he has been on for 4 weeks and which have not made any difference. She is now saying that the problem is with his trachea and she wants to try codeine and then a steroid. We are a bit concerned as it seems as if she is just grasping at straws and wants to just keep giving him a cocktail of drugs which may or may not help the problem (also these are not cheap!) Trial and error may be the way to go but I am just a bit concerned to keep giving my dog drugs he doesn't need. Has anyone had any similar sort of problems and can help? Thank you so much for reading this, look forward to hearing from you. Laura

I'm no expert, but it does sound as if a second opinion is in order.

Heart Murmur/Collapsed Trachea
 

Thanks, yeah that was our next move, just wondering if anyone else had experience anything similar. Will let you know how we get on.

Poor Bud...I hope you get it figured out! I don't have any expertise for you...just wanted to say best wishes and I think I'd go for that second opinion!

Heart Murmur/Collapsed Trachea
 

Thanks Connie, it's really hard trying to get a good vet recommended but we will keep trying. As for Bud he is neither up nor down, it's us that are freaking out. Will keep you updated.

Laura

Hello and welcome to YT. I dont know any thing about heart murmur,But heres a site on Collapsed Trachea http://www.mylittlemia.com/yorkiecare.html
My Little boy does the same thing and when he does I put my fingers over his nose and rub his throat he will then swallow and once he does hes fine. It only takes a few sec. Good Luck and please keep us updated. I will keep him in My Thoughts and Prayers.

Heart Murmur/Collapsed Trachea
 

Thanks for that I will have a look, it does sound like the symptoms for collapsed trachea but the xray showed nothing wrong - very confusing. Will be going for second opinion I think.

Thanks again, Laura

Welcome, Laura. First, just wanted to say that Xrays will not necessarily show any abnormalities when a Yorkie has Collapsing Trachea unless it is collapsed at the time the film is done. The vet can palpate the sides of the neck and cause the symptoms if it is indeed a tracheal problem. As for the drugs the vet wants to try--of course, it is always wise to have a second opinion. However, codeine is the drug of choice for severe uncontrollable coughing in dogs and humans. The steroid will help with any inflammation in the trachea.
When a grade 3 heart murmur is detected, it can very well be causing pulmonary edema (swelling or fluid in the lungs) but that would show onXray if the films are clear. Lasix would be the drug for that.
I would take the Xrays and go to another vet-maybe even a specialist if possible. Your baby is at the age when we as humans and our Yorkies can start with some age related problems.

Ewok does the same thing and we are on week three of anitbiotics. He says Ewok has a swollen adnoid? His cough has gotten a little better so hope hes right.

Thanks for that information, will keep you updated.

Hope Ewok gets better soon.

Heart Problem
 

Hello,
I was wondering how Bud is doing? I have a Yorkie who is 12 yrs old his name is Gizmo. He has been diagnosed with a heart condition and takes Lasix as well as some other medication for his coughing. He seems to be doing better and when I took him to the Vet today he said that all is well but I cannot exoect the coughing to cease entirely. He gave him some powder to put on his food as he is lacking potassium and now has muscle weakness. Sometimes he will just fall over. To make matters worse, he is blind... and has been for several years. Just doesn't seem fair as he is the cutest and most loving dog. He is like my child, I have had him since he was about 2 months old. I hope that Bud is better now?

Heart Murmur/Collapsed Trachea
 

Hi,

Bud is a bit better now, we took him to a new vet who seems more clued up. He is on Vetmedin - 1 tablet twice daily and the new vet has put him on Corvental-D for his coughing, he was on Lasix but was losing control of his bladder, constantly drinking and peeing like a waterfall!!! So the vet suggested we wean him off them, he is now off the Lasix completely but still takes the other two. The vet also told us not to expect the coughing to go completely and other than having a cough he is as fit as a fiddle, still loves his walks and exercise and eating. So hopefully we will still have a good few years left in him. Hope Gizmo is ok, they are resilient wee dogs so I am sure there is still plenty life left in both of them.

Cheers

Laura

Monkey does this coughing thing too. Maddie also did it. Mostly when they would get excited. I only anticipate it getting worse with age. Monkey's fits are not very long or often, but when Maddie would do it (mostly when I would walk through the door coming home), I would pick her up and gently stroke the sides of her throat and speak to her softly to calm her down. She would stop pretty quickly.

Do you put your fingers over the TOP of her nose or close the opening of his nostrils so he'll breath through his mouth? I also rub the throat and that seems to help.

Someone mentioned stroking the throat. Does it matter if you stroke the front or the sides of the throat?

This is EXACTLY what I do with Chanel when she gets to snorting - I close off the little nostrils for a few SECONDS - and sometimes gently tap my fingers ....just to get her to breath thru her mouth and it works great - also DISTRACTION works - sometimes I run outside - she follows and stops the snorting right away because she's breathing thru her mouth

Thanks for the information. I plan to ask Gizmo's VET about Vetmedin and Corvental-D. Your description is quite accurate, he is peeing "Like a waterfall"...Thanks.

Give your vet a chance.

My husband was a physician, and he and I had many conversations about how hard it is sometimes to diagnose medical problems. Often, it is just ruling many things out and moving along with further testing as necessary.

And - of course - it is often more difficult with animals - because they can't talk or describe all of their symptoms.

My own vet has often performed test to find or rule out problems - and then with further testing, she has been able to come to a more definitive diagnosis.

I think one of the worst things people can do - is doctor jump - or vet jump - before it is necessary.

I know people's intentions are good, but none of us are vets nor do we know 1% of 1% about the physical conditions and physiology of animals.

I suggest letting your vet work with your pet for a while - rule certain conditions or causes out - and then do further testing as necessary.

Remember - second opinions cost money - and often you just start back at square one - or move along the same as your other vet would have done. Good vets agree on courses of treament and testing. They may do some testing in a different order, but the end result is usually the same.

I remember my dog's back problem - the vet and I looked at each other and she said, "You know, we may never find out what your dog's problem is." I said, "I know." We both realized that we could have go on with expensive testing - MRIs, spinal taps, surgery, etc. -- but without these tests, we only knew the approximate location where my dog's back hurt...and could only guess at what might be going on.

Anyway - I hope you learn soon what your puppy's problem is.

Good Luck!

Carol Jean

I could not disagree with the previous poster more.
Giving a vet many visits to find the right diagnosis is a terrible idea.
Once you find the RIGHT vet with the RIGHT experience in your dogs problem diagnoses is immediate. In our case it just came to late to make a big difference in Duke's longevity.

Duke is 10 years old and will pass away in the next few days so this is a cautionairy tale.

The first piece of the puzzle was the heart murmer. He always had it but each vet that noticed it pronounced it to be a mild murmer.

It all started with the cough/yak. First only while playing ball. He started to have trouble holding the ball in his mouth. He'd drop it and give a good Yak.

Next came a deeper more persistant yak/clearing of the throat.

Vet's focuses on the yaking and throat which turns out not to be the big issue.

Six months ago a new vet blamed it on his heart which had become enlarged to the point of pressing on the lower part of his airway. At first this seems counterintuative but as his illness progressed proved to be correct.

As of today he probably has a day or two left before heart failure.
The murmer led to an enlarged heart which is now struggeling to circulate fully.

This is a terrible way to watch Duke die. He is only 10 and up until a few days ago was incredibly vibrant. Played ball constantly. He is the smartest dog I have ever known (we have way too many yorkies!) and basically runs the household as he has an impecable internal clock. Everything must occur at the exact scheduled time or he will let it be known the things are off schedule.

Had we paid more attention to the heart than the throat meds might have started sooner and given him more time. Now all we can do is wait for the final bad day to arrive.

Heart Murmer + yaking just might have nothing to do with the collapsing trachea problem. Especially if the yaking started in adulthood.

Xray the heart. And do it every couple months and find a vet who has seen this problem before so they don't under medicate.

http://www.edhamilton.com/public/Duke.JPG

Gizmo
 

Gizmo was put to sleep on Feb 5th of this year as he was struggling to breath and choking. He suffered with this for many months and we had no choice. My Vet did check his heart a couple of years back and continued to do that. It was not the heart, it was a collapsed trachea.

It is quite upsetting for me to have someone suggest that I may not have been taking proper care of Gizmo who I loved very much. Unless you are a VET I would suggest that you keep your opinions to yourself.

My post was made with the best of intentions and directed at the previous poster who suggested giving one vet several attempts at a diagnosis.

This turned out badly for us.
Once we found a vet with the right experience in Duke's condition diagnosis was immediate and with the right meds he probably lived a bit longer and a bit more comfortable.

My post was made during a long bad night for Duke. Watching him suffer just trying to breath. Yaking cough. Knowing he's only a few days away from passing.

You are reading my own personal regret as a criticism of you which it was most certainly not. If I had sought more medical opinions sooner I can't help but think that Duke might have lived longer.

But as to your kind suggestion that I keep my opinions to myself .... uh.... this is a public forum. But thanks for your kind support and understanding as we suffer Duke's last days. Clearly your loss did not make you sensitive to the loss suffered by others.

And again to any who read this thread in the future.
Collapsing trachea is a terrible illness but it turns out that there is another cause of those same symptoms. We spent way too much time focused on the trachea when it was Duke's heart condition causing the problem.
It was only when the heart murmer grew loud enough that our new vet suggested an xray. That xray revealed the murmer to be more than a murmer. It was now advanced heart disease and a very enlarged heart.
This was causing the yaking and trachea collapsing. This is what is now killing Duke.

When I did web research on the yaking and the trachea I found absolutely no reference to any possibility of it being heart related. This cost us valuable time and it turns out not to be uncommon.

Thus I am posting of Duke's illness in various web forums so that someday some other yorkie owner who is sitting at his/her computer trying to find out what is wrong with their very special pet (which as all yorkie owners know - yorkies are VERY special little beings) - might end up learning about this other cause of the yaking and insist on their vet checking out the heart.
I certainly wish I would have found a reference like this in the thousands of web pages I searched. If I had - I might not be watching my dog die right now. He'd be playing ball instead.

But as is all too common on web forums - posts can easily be read out of context. Someone can be in tears while posting deeply from the heart and that same post can be read by a forum member as cold and insulting. Great writers spend a lifetime perfecting the art of communicating emotion through words. I most certainly am not even a decent writer so clearly my posts are probably failing to convey the intent with which they were written. I simply hope that someday my post show's up in a suffering yorkie owners google search and that it might make a difference in that special little dogs diagnosis.

my sasha went in to heart failure very quickly, she had started having fits aged about 2 but as these were not bad was not put on any meds.
she would only do a little cough now and again after playing no other signs of a problem.
i was told her fits were something to do with her brain and would prob not get worse.
aged 12 and a half she just started having breathing probs and didnt want to lay down also her fitting got very bad to the point of having 3 or 4 a day.
took her to the vets and they gave her a xray and found she had a very enlarged heart and lungs full of fluid.
she was given heart meds and pills to reduce the fluid.
a week later she had a heart attack, she stoped breathing and i gave her mouth to mouth and bought her back.
she stayed at the vets and her meds were changed and i was told if these didnt work no more could be done.
a week later she had another heart attack, i had already decided that if she stopped breathing i would not give her mouth to mouth as nothing could be done for her and she would keep on suffering, hearing your dog scream in pain is heart braking.
she stopped breathing but after some time started again, i took her to the vets where they said she was suffering and nothing could be done so i had to let her go which broke my heart.
im sure she had always had a heart problem and thats what had caused her fits and maybe like its already been said on here if a vet had picked this up when she was two she wouldnt of gone thought what she did.
having said that tye (sashas son) who is now nearly 14 has heart failure and is doing well on the meds, hes had heart failure for a while now and is on a heart med, fluid pills and a steroid.
they cough cause of the heart pushing on the windpipe and cause of fluid in the lungs, it is best not to stop the coughting completely as it helps move the fluid off the lungs.
i hope everyone on here with dogs with heart problems or breathing problems the best of luck and i hope your dogs have as many happy years months or days as they can.

I'd definetly be getting a second opinion. Drugs like pain killers only mask the problems. I'd rather know what the problem is, and then work on that.