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-   -   Lexie update - LS (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/207783-lexie-update-ls.html)

Becca1 07-06-2010 07:19 AM
Lexie update - LS
 
Lexie didn't seem to be improving with just a diet change and antibiotics, so we opted to have a biopsy done - even though it is a somewhat invasive procedure, I'm glad we did. Our vet just planned on taking a few samples of her liver, however when he laid her out, he did find that her gallbladder was quite enlarged and he went in expressed it and he said got out a lot of sludge - she soon felt better just because of that. The biopsy diagnosis is "congenital protosytemic shunt". He decided to change her food from L/D to K/D and she is already showing improvement.

I did write the kennel where we bought her 3 years ago in Missouri (I had previously written them because of her signs of liver disease, but heard nothing); I know this is now a puppy mill - I didn't realize it when we bought her and wish I would have known about this website before we made that purchase, but didn't. My question to anyone out there is should I name this kennel on the Yorkie Forum website to inform people, or just advise the kennel of this problem?? I'm sure there have to be other people out there that bought from this kennel and future ones that will.

Ladymom 07-06-2010 07:26 AM
I would absolutely warn people here on YT. You could save someone from having to go through the expense and heartache you have.

The puppymill isn't going to care if she has a liver shunt. They just crank out puppies for profit and don't care at all about what congenital conditions they may be passing on. :thumbdown

Ellie May 07-06-2010 07:28 AM
You could name it (lots do in the breeder review section), but "breeders" don't like when they find their names online associated with unpleasant posts, so that's really up to you... If it's a puppymill, they probably won't care that she has a liver problem. It's all the same to them as long as they got the $$$.

Was the shunt repaired?
What supplements is she on?

Becca1 07-06-2010 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3188428)
I would absolutely warn people here on YT. You could save someone from having to go through the expense and heartache you have.

The puppymill isn't going to care if she has a liver shunt. They just crank out puppies for profit and don't care at all about what congenital conditions they may be passing on. :thumbdown
That's what I'm afraid of that they don't care and I don't want other Yorkies or their owners to have to go through this.

Becca1 07-06-2010 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3188430)
You could name it (lots do in the breeder review section), but "breeders" don't like when they find their names online associated with unpleasant posts, so that's really up to you... If it's a puppymill, they probably won't care that she has a liver problem. It's all the same to them as long as they got the $$$.

Was the shunt repaired?
What supplements is she on?
No it wasn't repaired - it is an intrahepatic shunt, so are just trying to control this with diet and medication - at least for the time being. I guess from what the vet said and what I've read, they are extremely hard to repair since it is an internal shunt.

I will think on naming the kennel on YT and check out the breeder section. I just didn't want to get in trouble in case it's something that shouldn't be done. Boy, I've learned so much since I bought her - first that APRI and USDA are kind of synonymas (sp) with puppy mills!!

I don't have her on any supplements - any suggestions?

Ellie May 07-06-2010 09:27 AM
A symptomatic dog absolutely should be on supplements.

Were SAMe, milk thistle, and lactulose mentioned?

If they found it by biopsy, it sounds like MVD (small shunting throughout the liver).

Becca1 07-06-2010 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3188607)
A symptomatic dog absolutely should be on supplements.

Were SAMe, milk thistle, and lactulose mentioned?

If they found it by biopsy, it sounds like MVD (small shunting throughout the liver).
From what I've read too, I thought MVD was possible, but I really thought that MVD would be mentioned in the biopsy if that was a possibility - maybe not. The only supplement our vet suggested was lactulose; however, since her stools are somewhat soft and well formed now, we decided to wait on that - she poops twice a day, quite regularly, and I will keep an eye on her, but I know the lactulose is an option. I have read about using the SAME and milk thistle, but hadn't thoroughly checked it out on line yet - what I did find from entirelypets.com was something for a 30# dog and wondered about that - Lexie is 8#.

Becca1 07-06-2010 10:09 AM
I was reading an article on liver shunts and see that they recommended Nutramax (or Marin) and googled that and found some sold through 1800PetMeds - it has good reviews - it is a supplement with milk thistle and vitamin E and for her size, it says 1/4 tab a day with food - I may check that out.

TLC 07-06-2010 10:20 AM
L/D (wet) or ROYAL CANIN Veterinary Diet® canine HEPATIC LS™ 14 (dry) is really best for Liver issue dogs.

K/D has pork in it, which is a no-no for liver issue dogs.

Lactulose is good, bc it binds to the toxins in her body. It's not only a laxative, so if your Vet is recommending it, I would give it :(

Ellie May 07-06-2010 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC (Post 3188675)
L/D (wet) or ROYAL CANIN Veterinary Diet® canine HEPATIC LS™ 14 (dry) is really best for Liver issue dogs.

K/D has pork in it, which is a no-no for liver issue dogs.

Lactulose is good, bc it binds to the toxins in her body. It's not only a laxative, so if your Vet is recommending it, I would give it :(
I concur, but I wonder why she does better on the K/D.:confused:
Was the L/D kibble or canned?

Nutramax makes Marin (milk thistle), Denosyl (SAMe), and Denamarin (both combined). Your vet should give you an idea of which one(s) to use. Not supplementing may not be a good idea. It can't hurt and it may help. You may also consider Hepatosupport, vitamin E, omega 3, Denestra, etc.

Becca1 07-06-2010 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC (Post 3188675)
L/D (wet) or ROYAL CANIN Veterinary Diet® canine HEPATIC LS™ 14 (dry) is really best for Liver issue dogs.

K/D has pork in it, which is a no-no for liver issue dogs.

Lactulose is good, bc it binds to the toxins in her body. It's not only a laxative, so if your Vet is recommending it, I would give it :(
We had previously had her on L/D, but our vet suggested the K/D and I have read on-line vets suggesting K/D for certain LS dogs, so....will give it a try for her. I will go ahead and pick up the Lactulose for her - do you have any thoughts on the Nutramax?

TLC 07-06-2010 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becca1 (Post 3188692)
We had previously had her on L/D, but our vet suggested the K/D and I have read on-line vets suggesting K/D for certain LS dogs, so....will give it a try for her. I will go ahead and pick up the Lactulose for her - do you have any thoughts on the Nutramax?
Was she on the L/D wet or dry?

Unfortunately, lots of Vets recommend K/D bc it is low in protein, but they don't realize it has the pork in it. So please watch her carefully, as that little bit of pork can trigger HE symptoms :(

If your Vet is recommending the Lactulose, than I think you should give it. You can ask your Vet to write you a Rx and get it filled at Walmart or Costco, as it is much cheaper and you get a bigger bottle.

Yes, I like the Nutramax company.

Becca1 07-06-2010 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3188677)
I concur, but I wonder why she does better on the K/D.:confused:
Was the L/D kibble or canned?

Nutramax makes Marin (milk thistle), Denosyl (SAMe), and Denamarin (both combined). Your vet should give you an idea of which one(s) to use. Not supplementing may not be a good idea. It can't hurt and it may help. You may also consider Hepatosupport, vitamin E, omega 3, Denestra, etc.
She had been on L/D kibble and canned (however, undoubtedly, once she got a taste of the canned, she quit eating the kibble), but, he (our vet) also personally owns a dog with liver issues and has done his own research and found that they perform better on K/D - something about the K/D having the kind of low protein that they can process even better than the L/D.

I have always been a firm believe in feeding kibble (it's easier when we have to board, plus better for their teeth and doesn't cause as much tarter;) but he said a dog with liver issues needs to eat and often, so if that's what she eats the best, then I'll continue to give canned.

Thanks for the info on the Marin - I will check with him, but I think I'll go that route. I did see that Hepatosupport mentioned also.

Becca1 07-06-2010 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLC (Post 3188695)
Was she on the L/D wet or dry?

Unfortunately, lots of Vets recommend K/D bc it is low in protein, but they don't realize it has the pork in it. So please watch her carefully, as that little bit of pork can trigger HE symptoms :(

If your Vet is recommending the Lactulose, than I think you should give it. You can ask your Vet to write you a Rx and get it filled at Walmart or Costco, as it is much cheaper and you get a bigger bottle.

Yes, I like the Nutramax company.
I will definitely monitor her closely on the K/D - she was eating the L/D (canned) fine, so with eating she didn't have a problem (at least once we switched her from Eukanuba when we found out she had liver issues.) Thanks for the tip on getting a Rx for the Lactulose :)


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