but they already treated with antibiotics so why is a sterile sample needed and a dog needed to be sedated for this? If there was infection causing this wouldn't the antibiotics given for 15 days have killed it?

All i can say is if it was my dog I would do the blood work and bats as i think you will get more answers there before letting them sedate my dog for urine sample

Did you ask them if the urinalysis already done had protein or crystals in it and what was the ph? We need to know that info to further assist so please call the vet to ask these questions. Also how much are they charging you for the cysto and sedation? My concern is sedating without doing blood work as well

Another thing i thought of is the antibiotic given was not good for that infection so this could be what they are trying to determine so if so you need to also do a urine culture so they can give you a list of antibiotics that will kill bacteria infection

But please get answers to those other questions for us to help

Since I haven't figured out how to read minds yet (lol), I have no idea why they would need to redo. My thinking is that since they found bacteria the first time, they want to see if it is still there. If it is, then a different antibio is needed. Also, if they want a culture, it should be sterile.

Not disagreeing with bloodwork, but the vet may feel very strongly that another sample is needed and I can't disagree with that. At leat they are trying.

Ellie is very wiggly and she gets cystos with no issue. Once they couldn't, but we came back when her bladder was full. I'd make very sure that sedation was necessary before doing it.

I think what I will do is tell them that I don't want them to sedate him. I'll have them keep him there in the office so his bladder can fill up. Also being there for a while will help him to calm down. He takes a little time to adjust to new surroundings.

I had them make copies of his urinalysis results like you suggested...
It says glu, bili, ketone, uro, nitrate & WBC were negative.
S.G. was 1.030
crystals was a zero
ph was 8.0
protein was 300ttt (I think they are t's)
What is interesting is where it says "Bacteria" they wrote "can't see"

I am going to keep a binder with all of his medical papers, lab results, etc.

I believe she told me the cypto was around $130 (w/out sedation) & blood work was $100.

WHAT???
A cysto should be close to $10-$15.
It sounds like that is a cysto ($10) and then they plan to send to culture ($90). A cysto itself should never be even close to that. It's like a blooddraw.

maybe because sedating cost is high?? cystos here are that high in cali so it is not far off i do not think

also wbc negative? no infection?

ph seems high though let me check

yeah why i wanted more info especially since talking about sedating

was this done inhouse our sent out to a lab? What does the top of the form say

does it say idexx lab or antech lab?

Urine analysis

more info so the protein looks like should be 4+ and those are pluses not T i believe so and you stated it was 300? It does say above it will be high if blood in urine though

I think she said without sedation.

Absolutely crazy if a cysto alone is that much.
Actually, we have paid $11 before, but now it is free.
No harder than drawing blood.

ok called my vet and he stated fee without sedation is $44 but this is the vet that is a little less than my other. He tried to talk me into the cysto last time with dd i said no and then he called me and said hey that was a really good sample btw. I laughed.

I personally have done all of mine free catch first thing in am as urine is sitting in bladder all night so it gets a real good sample and vet was impressed with samples i get off back of wee wee pad and i suction with sterile syringe and sterile bottle put in fridge until i go to vet when they open. I have never had a problem with doing it this way in any of my 3 and i do it every year for all 3 and if there is questionableness as to if they have a uti by their behavior like dd vulva rubbing like i did 2 for dd just recently and i even took one into internal medicine and it was perfectly fine.

I think the best samples are the first pee of the day not waiting for a second one as mine sleep with us so they hold it for all night so all the sedement is sitting in there all night then they wake up and i have the wee wee pad flipped over put them on it they go immediately - i take syringe suck it up and put in bottle and directly to fridge.

I just want people to know there are options and you go with what you are comfortable with for your dog.

Yeah dd has had a hemotoma from a blood draw in her leg before was not happy either
:(

I asked Jean Dodds about it when they wanted to do cysto on demi and she said NO free catch is fine. She is one i put alot of my trust in as she does alot of lab testing and research

I believe it was in house because there is nothing on top.

how much did you pay for it?

It is always best for any urine, fecal or blood work to be sent to a lab to get most accurate results - usually it will be idexx or antech so you can ask your vet which lab they use

you are probably learning way more than you ever wanted to about urine huh lollllll

There are 2 places that say "WBC" One has "negative" written after it and the other one has something written after it that is illegible. Sort of looks like IWTC????

ok i am copying for someone on here the whole dog journal article on preventing crystals, stones, uti info

It says uti that cause struvite crystals to become uroliths can raise urinary ph to 8.0 and 8.5 (which your dog had 8.0 and normal is 7.0)

If you want me to email it to you as well as I have both articles from April and May i can send you in regards to this just pm me your email address for me to send attachment to you

Also i recommend everyone get THE WHOLE DOG JOURNAL subscription that has a dog along with cornell's news letter and tufts university newsletter as very informative

The last urine sample I got by holding a small plastic container under him right when he was squatting. Do you think I can do the same thing but this time sterilize the container and lid?

wow you are better than me i could never do that but yes that would be fine. Ask vet for sterile container as they have them- just put in fridge until vet opens then take straight in first thing

have them do urinalysis and culture at a lab not inhouse and see what comes up with that as the antibiotic may not have been the right one for the infection

But to say that it is fine when her vet wants to go another way may not be a good idea.

Specifically when sending urine for culture (which her vet may be doing...we don't know) and anytime there is a question about bacteria not clearing up, a cysto is recommended for a good reason.

I understand that they may scare you, but that doesn't make it bad medicine.
The AAHA, Merck, VIN, Idexx Lab, Antech Lab, Ellie's vet, and the original poster's vet all agree on this.

If the OP's vet didn't care, that's one thing; but they are trying to do something very specific here.

If sedation is required, I would think about it more. In this case, perhaps leaving the pup there or holding for a couple hours before vet appt. to make sure bladder is full could be tried. I'd hesitate to use any sedation drugs on a Yorkie before bile acids testing.

I understand and vets always recommend it no matter what as mine did too but it really is not necessary and especially if a dog is being sedated.

If the owner is not comfortable with it then they can make the choice for their dog. I personally am not comfortable with it and it is my opinion and i never let them do this with my dogs. I am just stating what i would do if this were my dog only. It is up to the owner to make that decision as well.

If they did not send out for culture first time they can send the free catch as well to get cultured as i did the same thing myself and both came back no uti and it was contaminated i am sure as i got it from back of wee wee pad and it was fine. If there is an infection there will be bacteria in a free catch as if causing problem with dog there is alot of bacteria sterile or not.

Ask the vet if there has ever been any complications to this as i did and they do state we cannot guarantee there will be no complication. So to me doing it free catch is fine enough for me and never had a problem with it.

Not trying to be difficult C but I disagree with this procedure has to be done this way and i do not do something just because i am told. I do it after i read up on it and feel comfortable only. If i am not comfortable with everything i read I will not do it no matter what especially when i know it does not make that much of a difference and it can be done safer with no complications

here is a question-

why do they not stick a needle in human bladders for urinalysis and culture?

We pee in a cup to get tested for bladder infections - why should it be any differently for a dog especially since this owner is skilled in getting pee directly into a cup which i am not that skilled btw lolllll?

With humans, there is a clean catch and a sterile catch. I really don't want to get graphic here...but bc humans can be more aware, can clean areas, and can position things - a sterile catch can be obtained without a needle -- know what I mean :rolleyes:?

We are all entitled to our opinion and that is fine.
What I am concerned about is the wording chosen because you said that yes, free catch is fine with a sterile container. If that is what you are comfortable with for your dogs, that's okay; but it's not okay to tell an owner that it is fine when their vet is saying otherwise.

Exactly. And if a cysto cannot be done for whatever reason, getting a sample midstream is a good way to go...

lol and this dog is a boy and she caught it directly in the cup which dang that is good not sure how but i am impressed so not sure how contaminated her catch was and dogs clean themselves loll not sure how good but they do. Some raw feeders believe licking wounds is healing and allow their spay dogs to lick the wound and it healed fast like my friend did with her maltese so there are different beliefs holistic vs modern medicine out there when it comes to cleanliness in dogs.

I just feel people have the right to do what is comfortable to them and she is obviously not comfortable and this is a tiny dog with a tiny bladder.

The heart of the issue is the protein count on food is extremely high thus triggering this issue and the bigger issue is does this dog have liver disease as we know most vets are not real up on mvd/liver shunt. So i think the next place to check is blood work as maybe ann can look at what she posted about urine as sounds like no infection present as neg wbc ? Protein is extremely high though but no crystals in urine. Ann what are your thoughts on the urinalysis she posted?

Op please tell your vet the percentage of protein you are feeding in case he did not ask as that will give the vet more info he needs

I will always post my opinion only I am not a vet and going to put that in my siggy too lollll so everyone knows it. I will always post what i would do with my own dogs and leave the owner options if there are any. Sometimes there are not options for the owner but in this case i believe there is and the owner needs to do what she feels she is comfortable with and should not be pressured into doing something just because she is told to do so when there are other options available

Good point here...there is a ginormous difference btwn "clean" and "sterile" in the medical/vet field - and there are very valid reasons for getting a true sterile catch.

To the OP, if my vet thought a Cysto was imperative, clinically, - I would do it. Remember...keep it in perspective - this is a Cysto, we're not talking surgery here. Certain procedures are needed at certain times.

Yup.

Most vets will recommend a cysto but is it necessary?

What will they get differently in the sterile sample?

Will there be bacteria in the bladder that does not come out on a free catch?

I want to learn what exactly will a cysto tell you differently than a free catch as I have yet to know what it will tell differently than a free catch other than less bacteria since it gets contaminated from the bladder until it comes out so please educate me on this as i sincerely want to know this and maybe it will change my opinion but i have not read anything that has changed my opinion on this yet other than the vet said to do it so please tell me exactly what you will get on a sterile cysto?

Ann

please answer below as i really want to know what will the cysto sterile sample tell me differently?

what specifically will it tell me that a free catch will not?

This is still a clean catch :).

I agree, she absolutely has the right to advocate for her kiddo and steer the best course. That said, my point is if the vet thinks a STERILE cysto is needed to make the Dx - then getting a clean catch is a waste of time and won't provide anything definitive, bc the sample will already be considered contaminated.

{also...I should clarify that on my human comment...I really meant "closer to sterile"...not really "sterile" per se}

Urine is sterile (a healthy urine, that is). However, once the urine leaves the body and contacts any skin, piece of hair, object (cup), anything, it is then no longer sterile.

A free catch will test out the urine, plus whatever the urine picks up while leaving the body and entering the specimen cup.

A cysto will test the urine in it's state inside the body, with no introduction of any foreign agents.

Does that make sense?

ok but maybe you and C can tell me what the cysto will find differently other than less bacteria as there is more bacteria when it goes from bladder out per our vet so in a sterile they will find less bacteria rather than more?

I really want to know the answer what are they looking for by doing a sterile as I discussed it with internal medicine specialist as well and she said the only reason in her opinion was bc the free catch is contaminated as it comes from bladder out and they may determine the dog has a uti when in fact they do not but usually they can tell by the amount of bacteria in the urine anyway so if it is a little then most likely not a bladder infection. She never pressured me into it either when she checked dd urine for uti.