i am aware of that so if someone is concerned about pain give the tramadol. I would take some inflammation over the side effects of this drug

I will post the info from fda site- everyone giving this drug should read this and the vet is suppose to give out a client sheet for it as well which many do not

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm093573.htm

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/.../ucm050105.htm

Sometimes an anti-inflammatory is needed! All of this is carefully weighed by vets. They don't just give meds willy nilly in most cases. They know all of the pharmacology very well. Again....carefully asking questions is very important for people taking their pups to a vet. There is no blanket statement such as what you are saying....inflammation can be part of what is causing the pain and you would not be helping that...only putting a bandaid on the problem.

and? I believe it pretty much sums up what I said. While you are googling....perhaps you can post a link to the FDA opinions on steroids.

then why is this drug handed out like treats with no instruction or information to client like was in this case here - i doubt the vet discussed side effects, etc to owner just like the vet did not with me and this is a vet that teaches around the country as well that got my dog sick - he swore to me it was safe and it was NOT and my dog was very sick from this - i know you have a good vet but sadly not everyone does :( also when something goes wrong they are stumped. I disagree many times they listen to the pharmaceutical reps without doing their own research and many do not even hand out the client sheet which is what is suppose to happen.

I am aware of steroids have used prednisone with horrible results and prednisolone now for 2 years no real issues so honestly in my experience steroids had much less issues than nsaids for me

so then why do vets not give it out to clients then? or are they not aware of this information?

yeah to make sure my dog with perfect blood work 3 days prior to nsaid has now damaged her kidneys and liver with this drug is what they were saying at the company as they are aware it does that obviously

Handed out like treats? I find it extremely hard to believe you said that. I also seriously doubt that many vets would not discuss side effects.

You have one experience and that becomes your standard advice for everyone.??

Yes, I have a good vet....and I believe that most are good some better than others. There is bad in any profession. You just cannot say that they are all as bad as you infer. Well, you can, but I think it is sad that you feel that way.

Your dog had another issue...you finally found out...I really do not think it was from that one dose of Metacam that you continue to insist it was even though you did finally get a diagnosis. Anything is possible, but often things are just very unlikely.

Let us just agree to disagree.

My advice is to consult with a licensed veterinarian about what meds your dog is prescribed and ask about side effects...also read the information on the web. Don't go by what one person says about a medication. Every single medication has side effects!

uh yeah it did one dose and vomitting occurred and she was sick for a month sorry i was there and had to take my dog to the specialty hospital after a month of vomitting and diarrhea and then blood in stool. Now granted it was because he mixed steroids with an nsaid BUT IT WAS ONE DOSE OF METACAM ONLY by the VET on and EMPTY STOMACH BY THE VET. So yes ONE DOSE did that much damage and my dog vomitted her kibble every time she ate it so i had to soak her kibble for a month to be able to eat

NSAIDS can perforate a human bowel a couple human pharmacists told me and it is never to be given on empty stomach so why did the vet do this if he is so knowledgeable about NSAIDS more so than a pharmacist and NSAIDS can lead to ulcers in the intestines per pharmacists. I did my homework on all this after my dog was so sick and spoke to several human pharmacists that go to school that only study medications

Are you serious? You believe a vet could get through vet school and not know basic pharmacology? Your disrespect for the profession astounds me.

Does she have damaged kidneys and liver??? They were responding to your email or call I am assuming and just advised you in the best way they could without SEEING your dog. A vet needed to SEE your dog.

OK...I am out for the morning.

I have voiced my opinion on medications...and that is enough ... the OP can draw her own conclusions about what to do for her pupster!

yep i do believe that and i believe they trust pharmaceutical reps just like the medical profession does

wrong again -- the clostridium happened due to the antibiotic use after the use of antibiotics for staph and that was a year later so sorry you are incorrect - the metacam incident happened 2/2009 the clostridium happened 1/2010 hardly the same incident but due to damaged intestinal tract anything is possilbe since now she cannot be pilled since metacam with white potato anymore yet for 2 years she was able to get her pills with white potato which is an inflammatory food but after metacam she threw it up every time

OP did your vet explain to you the side effects of this drug and did your vet give you the client sheet on this drug? I would be very interested to know if your vet did this? Mine did not

also the vet that spay dd and gave it did not and the vet that neutered dex that gave it did not so that is 3 vets that gave me nsaids neither said a word nor gave me any info - why was that ? I guess we can do a poll on here to see whose vet has done that giving out nsaids? I bet it is very small percentage would be my guess

actually she does she has MVD which was another reason this VET should not have given my dog an NSAID of which he was aware and said NO PROBLEM. I am on a group which you are welcome to join on yahoogroups.com that has dog owners that have died from one dose of nsaid though and get to hear that heartache as the vet did not tell them the side effects nor hand out the client sheet

Depending on the office, when a med is given, there is a small paragraph listing things to watch for. I have never received a client sheet on any drug from any vet and my family has not either that I know of.

However, I don't think it's fair to lump most vets into the category of just doing what the reps say. It just isn't the case. I wouldn't go to a doctor and I wouldn't take Ellie to a vet that was constantly pushing the questionable drugs. My doctor and Ellie's vet try to use the safest ones first.

And there is no way to know if the Metacam itself caused the reaction. It was not given by the instructions of the company. The vet really messed up. If it would have been given alone with food, then maybe everything would've been fine. Maybe it was the NSAID and steroids interacting. There are really too many variables to blame Metacam alone.

And now I see that this is the one with MVD. There was a huge reason not to give it and that also could've been a contributing factor to what happened.

it was the metacam and steroid and empty stomach and her having mvd all combo i believe and yes vet sucks we will never go back there again but he has been around 20 years, has all the state of the art equipment as i went to him due to digital xray for her injury, and i asked for tramadol and he swore to me she would be ok on metacam so i trusted the PROFESSIONAL AGAIN and was let down. Also this guy owns the ER in my area and he teaches vets around the country so very disappointed.

Also Ellie Jean Dodds who consults with vets around the country is very much against nsaids and i respect that

well in regards to trusting big pharma i asked jean wth why did he not warn me as she freaked when i came home and immediately emailed her he gave dd metacam - her response was STOP METACAM IMMEDIATELY well it was too late. She said sadly debbie they do not know and tend to trust the pharmaceutical companies so I do believe this to be the case. I think that is why we see on national tv when there is a drug that goes bad to make us aware as doctors trusted pharma companies handed out a drug and uh oh there is a problem we better inform the public but unfortunately we do not see this in veterinary medicine we have to rely on fda.gov notifications if owners even call it in or report it which many do not as sadly they cover stuff up and say like with my dog and some are saying her No way it was the drug - now come on my dog has been on steroids for two years, had blood work 3 days prior with jean dodds, had urine tested, fecal tested and titers all perfect bill of health and then she hurts her leg gets metacam and she is jacked up for a month - It was the METACAM folks. Now yes the way it was administered incorrectly but why did the vet not know this because obviously he is unaware as i do not think he intentionally wanted to hurt my dog

I also respect Dr. Dodds, but I do not agree with everything that I have heard people say she has said.

Like I've said before, if I listened to everything that she believes, then Ellie would get a distemper vaccine every other year. So that right there is enough for me to step back and give other vets time to show me their findings. :) Every dog is different and what works for one does not work for all.

really as my dogs are titered by her so i do not believe she has stated that as she has never told me that and i email her constantly and see her two to three times a year and she does not believe in over vaccinating dogs and why she is behind getting the rabies pushed out so I would have to disagree with that distemper theory that someone has stated to you as i do not believe that came from her :( She believes every 3 years and distemper i believe is a puppy disease so very interesting

I would be interesting in seeing where that states that if you have a link as i do know some false info has been posted and i send it to her and she says that is not from her so you do have to be careful as there was an incorrect vaccine protocol sent around that she did not endorse

She didn't say to vaccinated every two years and nobody online has stated that that is her protocol. I meant that Ellie has a low titer for distemper every two years. If I were to go with her protocol of vaccinating anytime there is a low titer, then Ellie would have to have dist. every 1-2 years if her titers keep doing what they are doing. But I have stopped titers entirely b/c I do not think they work well for us.

correct what works for one does not work for all but the vet should still be informing the client and handing out the client sheet when giving out a controversial medication like nsaids. Also the vet should know dogs with ibd, on steroids, having mvd, and never to give on empty stomach after 20 years in the business correct?

I know many get upset as i am passionate about vet care and poor quality of it and why i mostly deal with specialists for this reason as have been let down way too many times by several vets. We do see it over and over on here as well so i hardly think i am alone in feeling this way and why people come here to get information so if you have a great vet feel blessed but do not assume all vets are great, wonderful, fully educated people. They are human they make mistakes and they do not know everything about everything. Do your homework just like you should do for your own health. It is a team effort in dealing with a sick dog not one almighty one. I have dealt with great specialist and have dealt with vets that are knowledgeable about some things but not all things.

Hi, I didn't read all of the replies in this thread but I wanted to share my experience with RIMADYL. I was given this for Snoot after he was neutered years ago. Snooty was neutered later in life, not as a baby so it was easy to realize something was going on. Snoot developed a very high fever and became extremely aggressive. Snoot doesn't have a mean bone in his body but the RIMADYL made him act like he was out of his mind crazy. I'm not even kidding here. He reminded me of what an animal would act like if they had rabbies. We couldn't touch him or go within a few feet or he charged at us to attack.

This started the day after surgery. At first he just seemed very cranky but he got worse by the evening. My vet's office was closed so I couldn't call and ask about the drug. I got online and went on the pfizer's website and looked up the drug and Snoot was definately having a reaction to it. I stopped giving it right away and he was back to normal by the following evening. Needless to say it's written in his charts, 'NO RIMADYL.'


After this I read a lot online about this drug. So many have had bad reactions and yes even death. :( I know some are fine taking it but I personally will never, ever give any of my babies it since the terrible experience with Snoot.

she does not say to vaccinate with a low titer she says the exact opposite actually she states a low titer does NOT mean the dog does not have the proper immunity as immunity is not a snap shot in time it is the whole movie -- i will post the link with this information so someone has misinformed you of her thoughts on this - if dd had a low titer she would not have me vaccinate her I guarantee you that

here is the titer validity information

MORE ON VACCINE TITER TESTING

W. Jean Dodds, DVM
Hemopet
938 Stanford Street
Santa Monica, CA 90403
310-828-4804; Fax 310-828-8251
Hemopet/Hemolife, HEMOPET a full animal blood bank, Diagnostic Laboratory, Adoption and Consultation
hemopet@hotmail.com

Some veterinarians have challenged the validity of using vaccine titer testing to assess the immunologic status of animals against the common, clinically important infectious diseases.

With all due respect, this represents a misunderstanding of what has been called the “fallacy of titer testing”, because research has shown that once an animal’s titer stabilizes it is likely to remain constant for many years. Properly immunized animals have sterilizing immunity that not only prevents clinical disease but also prevents infection, and only the presence of antibody can prevent infection. As stated by eminent expert Dr. Ronald Schultz in discussing the value of vaccine titer testing, these tests “show that an animal with a positive test has sterilizing immunity and should be protected from infection. If that animal were vaccinated it would not respond with a significant increase in antibody titer, but may develop a hypersensitivity to vaccine components (e.g. fetal bovine serum). Furthermore, the animal doesn't need to be revaccinated and should not be revaccinated since the vaccine could cause an adverse reaction (hypersensitivity disorder). You should avoid vaccinating animals that are already protected. It is often said that the antibody level detected is “only a snapshot in time". That's simply not true; it is more a “motion picture that plays for years".

Furthermore, protection as indicated by a positive titer result is not likely to suddenly drop-off unless an animal develops a medical problem such as cancer or receives high or prolonged doses of immunosuppressive drugs. Viral vaccines prompt an immune response that lasts much longer than that elicited by classic antigen. Lack of distinction between the two kinds of responses may be why practitioners think titers can suddenly disappear.

But, not all vaccines produce sterilizing immunity. Those that do include: distemper virus, adenovirus, and parvovirus in the dog, and panleukopenia virus in the cat. Examples of vaccines that produced non-sterile immunity would be leptospirosis, bordetella, rabies virus, herpesvirus and calicivirus --- the latter two being upper respiratory viruses of cats. While non-sterile immunity may not protect the animal from infection, it should keep the infection from progressing to severe clinical disease.

Therefore, interpreting titers correctly depends upon the disease in question. Some titers must reach a certain level to indicate immunity, but with other agents like those that produce sterile immunity, the presence of any measurable antibody shows protection. The positive titer test result is fairly straightforward, but a negative titer test result is more difficult to interpret, because a negative titer is not the same thing as a zero titer and it doesn't necessarily mean that animal is unprotected. A negative result usually means the titer has failed to reach the threshold of providing sterile immunity. This is an important distinction, because for the clinically important distemper and parvovirus diseases of dogs, and panleukopenia of cats, a negative or zero antibody titer indicates that the animal is not protected against canine parvovirus and may not be protected against canine distemper virus or feline panleukopenia virus.

Finally, what does more than a decade of experience with vaccine titer testing reveal ? Published studies in refereed journals show that 90-98% of dogs and cats that have been properly vaccinated develop good measurable antibody titers to the infectious agent measured. So, in contrast to the concerns of some practitioners, using vaccine titer testing as a means to assess vaccine-induced protection will likely result in the animal avoiding needless and unwise booster vaccinations.

SIDE BAR
Reasons for Vaccine Titer Testing: *
1. To determine that animal is protected (suggested by a positive test result).
2. To identify a susceptible animal (suggested by a negative test result).
3. To determine whether an individual animal has responded to a vaccine.
4. To determine whether an individual vaccine is effectively immunizing animals.

* from: Schultz RD, Ford RB, Olsen J, Scott F. Titer testing and vaccination: a new look at traditional practices. Vet Med, 97: 1-13, 2002 (insert).

References

Dodds WJ. Vaccination protocols for dogs predisposed to vaccine reactions. J Am An Hosp Assoc 38: 1-4, 2001.
Lappin MR, Andrews J, Simpson D, et al. Use of serologic tests to predict resistance to feline herpesvirus 1, feline calicivirus, and feline parvovirus infection in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 220: 38-42, 2002.
Mouzin DE, Lorenzen M J, Haworth, et al. Duration of serologic response to five viral antigens in dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 55-60, 2004.
Mouzin DE, Lorenzen M J, Haworth, et al. Duration of serologic response to three viral antigens in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 61-66, 2004.
Paul MA (chair) et al. Report of the AAHA Canine Vaccine Task Force: 2003 canine vaccine guidelines, recommendations, and supporting literature. AAHA, April 2003, 28 pp.
Tizard I, Ni Y. Use of serologic testing to assess immune status of companion animals. J Am Vet Med Assoc 213: 54-60, 1998.
Twark L, Dodds WJ. Clinical application of serum parvovirus and distemper virus antibody titers for determining revaccination strategies in healthy dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 217:1021-1024, 2000.

Then the question becomes, why spend the money on a titer if I'm not going to :confused:vaccinate anyway? Everywhere online that has her protocol posted seems to indicate that titering should be done, and if it is low, then a booster should be given. In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone on YT that uses her protocol has understood it the same way.

i titer for my own peace of mine nothing else as i want to know then i can make the decision and actually many do not titer once initial shots are done - it is available for people to know if the vaccine took and peace of mind at least that is why i do it. When demi had a low titer from cornell university she had not had one year booster so i chose to vaccinate as she is healthy

Luckily dee dee and dex have been titered for years and been fine probably because they were over vaccinated as puppies and why dd problems all started at 6 mos of age :( If she was low i would not vaccinate her anyway but want to know - especially since a plumber came into my home who had a parvo pup that week and none of my dogs got sick and highly doubt the guy bleached his shoes :( and he came in my home twice and ironically all vets and specialists NOT ONE told me to take mine in and get a parvo shot for my dogs now why was that ? They all said oh they had them as a puppy so they are fine and they are all 6 this year so if that was the case why are these vets vaccinating dogs for parvo every 1-3 years if they know this -hmmmm makes me wonder now too

I have used it for years (arthritis) on Sasha, 3 pound Yorkie. She is now 16 and doing well! I use Metacam now which seems to be the drug of choice.