6mo MORKIE possible LS??????
 

Hi YT...I will keep this short...I got a call from an old co worker of mine and here is the short..

Christmas Eve her pup was rushed to ER, b/c it wasn't eating, vomitting, walking walls, whinning...the ALT was 252. Overnight stay w/ fluids, discharged home with l/d food and Adensyl 1xday 100 mg.

They had a check up w/ their vet (Banifeild):eek: y-day. (I was able to send her some info that i read here:D about BAT testing for LS. so perhaps vet would recommend it
ALT was in the 800:eek::eek:, the vet suggested that an ultra sounds was in order and if surgery was needed it would be over $3K. They asked about BAT testing as an option and vet said with ALT that high it was the liver:eek:
She told me that her pup has not displayed any symptoms, eats her meals, runnning, playing and being active. The only that changed is the pup started pooing and peeing in her cage...MIND YOU 6mo OLD.
She got the pup at just over 8wks old, from parents at her kids school who had an accidential liter, they have been to their home and they are not breeders. When she told them what was going on they felt terrible, but said they weren't aware of any illness while they had pup...(OK, it was only 8wk:cool:) I can see that:rolleyes:
I told her about this site an hope she joins, I read alot about Dr. Davis (i hope thats right) you all recommend for LS wasn't there like 2 schools...i swear spends HOURS on this site but now when i want pass the info on to help someone make good decisions i can't find it:mad:
I wanna say DWERTEN is a source for LS pups, i searched for her post (prob not doing search right) but i see she hasn't been on in few, hope she okay :)
Does this sound like LS to you all?
Thanks bunches

She really needs to have BAT testing done first and NOT at Banfield.

She needs to go somewhere where they will send the tests out and get exact pre and post numbers and where they know what they are doing and how to administer the test.

In the meantime the pup should be on a low protein diet, if the pup has had no symptoms yet, something under 22% protein should be fine.

An ultrasound is really a waste of money... it MAY show a shunt, likely it will not and it will tell nothing if it is MVD or something else.

Edit to Add: if this pup has had no symptoms since xmas eve... I really think she can slow down and take this one step at a time... find a good vet and get BAT testing done... once she has concrete numbers to work with she can go from there.

It seems odd to me that the vet did not do BAT testing to make this diagnosis.
I'm no expert but when they ruled out LS in my dog Teddy a few months ago, the protocol was to do a BAT right after general chemistry. This was the same protocol for Daisy. Seems to me that the $80 blood test would be worthwhile.

I'd take the dog to an internist - and go from there. I'd drop the Banfield vet myself and opt to go to a specialist.

I question an 800 ALT reading after it was 252 when the dog had symptoms back at xmas. So I'd repeat chemistry (again, not at Banfield where they probably did it in house which is totally unreliable due to errors in testing).

She should get to a specialist to rule this out.

I question an 800 ALT reading after it was 252 when the dog had symptoms back at xmas. So I'd repeat chemistry (again, not at Banfield where they probably did it in house which is totally unreliable due to errors in testing).

I was thinking Banifeild may not even do BAT, and the reason they suggested ultra sound.:cool: I did suggest NOT going back to Banified. AND YES, this was done in house, I questioned that too, b/c from what i read on here, blood work needs to go out to a real lab....

In the meantime the pup should be on a low protein diet, if the pup has had no symptoms yet, something under 22% protein should be fine.
Is Sci. Diet l/d a low protein???

if this pup has had no symptoms since xmas eve...
Other than the ALT going from 252 to over 800 y-day???

Science diet L/D is typically prescribed for dogs with LS and MVD. My dog Daisy unfortunately has to eat L/D.

The ALT seems messed up to me. I'm not sure though. Daisy has MVD and she was in the 300s before going on L/D and now she is around the 170s. I'm not sure how high it goes in a L/S dog.

Debbie (Dwerten) will prob know this and she is usually popping on so maybe she can answer.

Also, the ultrasound should be done by a SPECIALIST not Banfield. The owner is just going to end up paying double for everything. I've been there and it's annoying. Meaning I've been in that position (not that I've been to Banfield).

Is Sci. Diet l/d a low protein???

yes, sorry I missed that the pup was already on that.


if this pup has had no symptoms since xmas eve...
Other than the ALT going from 252 to over 800 y-day???
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if she isnt seeing physical symptoms (lethargy, pressing head into wall, spinning in circles) I meant.
Thats not to say that she shouldnt get on finding out what is wrong... I just think doing something like an ultrasound is a waste of time and money.

ArmaniMan

THANKS for you replies. I'll be talking to her tomorrow and hopefully she'll become another YT member and the info and experiences will help her with this situation.

107barney

Thanks, I'm hoping D will jump on, she posted a yahoo forum I've seen in her post many times for member dealing with LS..
Like i said can't find it when you want it:rolleyes:...go figure:cool:

in yahoo search for this group: Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support

Update...on blood work
 

Ok, she just emailed me a copy of the blood panels from Jan and March (the other day)....(her work will not allow her to get on YT):rolleyes:

I'm not sure what's good/bad/indifferent...Are there certain numbers i could post on here that soemone would be able to offer help or advise with????...
She said there are no "symptoms" other than loose poo, ocassionally, She is on L/D and the meds...
Thanks for any input you can offer..:)

uh o
 

I really value the YT opinions. CAstor Pollux has been going to Banfield since he was a baby. We have the wellness plan and all that. He goes 2wice a month just for a head to tail check up.
I really value your opinions so... whats up with banfield? are they bad?
I know you'll tell me like it is.

I dont think they are "bad" but if your dog has a problem like LS or MVD you need to go elsewhere... the reason being they do in house lab work and you can only get a BAT number as high as "over 30" which tells you nothing really... you need to have a specific number to work with so you know exactly HOW high. Also those vets are not qualified to do procedures needed to diagnose a shunt, they need to be done by a specialist.

If you like your vet and your pups has no problems, there is no reason not to stick with Banfield... as long as you are putting your foot down on vaccines and not letting them give a whole panel of them at once.

Banfield is horrible. Please tell her to find a new private Vet.

First and foremost, a BAT needs to be done, and NOT at Banfield, as they DO NOT send it out to a Lab, they do it in-house and the results do not go any higher than 30, so it is a WASTE of time and money.

The episode she had sounds like it could be liver related or even a hypo attack.

The best advice you can give is to get this pup to a NEW VET for a BAT ;)

New vet .....yeah
 

I called my vet who will be able to perform the BAT test for her pup... :D
She is hoping to get in this weekend for the "initail" appt, which she will bring the past 2 blood panels for them to review and then schedule from there;)
No more Banfield visits....hopefully, fingers crossed, and PAW'S:animal-pa, that the BAT results prove the Banfield panels to be WRONG!!!;)

You can do a search on YT...there are tons of threads on Liver Shunt and here are some websites. I would not use Banfield for anything...


Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support : Liver Shunt & MVD/HMD Support
Yahoo! Groups: Search Results
Liver Shunt
Liver Shunt Research
Updates and Notices
Liver Shunt Stories
The Original Terri Shumsky Liver Shunt Fund
Liver Shunt
Information on Liver Shunt & Other Diseases
WHAT ARE PORTOSYSTEMIC SHUNTS?
Dealing With Liver Shunts in Puppies
Maltese discussion forum home > Scarey news - now what do we do?
Spoiled Maltese - the largest maltese dog forum and website

great! I am so glad to hear this... I wish your friend and her pup all the luck, please let us know if she has any more questions!

thanks dustmops, ;)I've searched on YT, I didn't get those results...
I am not doing something right:mad:!!!
Just like i TRIED to post a copy of the blood panels she sent me...:cool:

Thanks again YT

sounds like liver shunt - get the bats then right to scintigraphy skip the ultrasound waste of money they cannot usually see it on there and i would fly to university of tennessee spend a week there and have the surgery done by dr tobias. The symptoms like this creep up within first year so the dog can act normal then whamo it hits them like with this one - i would bet money this is liver shunt. Unless the dog was on drugs or got into something toxic the alt would not be that high unless those things happened

join the liver shunt groups on yahoogroups.com they are wonderful there are two of them

Thanks Dwerten, you're one the many post i read and got info from and sent to her:D
I was out of town till today and talked to her earlier...She went in on Saturday for an initial exam, and they scheduled the BAT yesterday:p She will know the results next week, she is on pins and needles, i feel so bad that she is dealing with this.
I'm trying to help pass info onto her, she's a busy mom, like many and just doesn't have the time for research and reading....one thing was she said what she wanted (BAT) and got it:thumbup:
We'll see what they say when they get the results...paws crossed:animal-pa

just checking in on this little one any news?

They don't have results...It was done Monday, how long does it normally take to get them back?

What is the difference between ultra sounds and scintigraphy? I told her about the recommendation of skipping ultra sound and going for scintigraphy when they get BAT results back (if needed, hopefully Banifield was off on the blood work:p)...

I have always gotten my BATS back in about a day.

usually back the next day that is odd? maybe she should call

ultrasound is very hard to see the shunt in a toy breed so a waste of $400 really but the scintigraphy is where they shoot radio active dye capsule through butt and take a ton of pics seeing if the capsule passes the liver if it passes it there is a shunt re routing the capsule and this is way more accurate and the same cost as ultrasound

here is info on scintigraphy but this is only if numbers way over 100 in my opinion in a dog having symptoms so need to see bats first

Portal Scintigraphy in Veterinary Medicine

Thanks D---copied and sent her the link to print out and take with her...Waiting on her to send me a reply on the BAT test if she heard anythign this mornning....

Update
 

Here goes....she got the results (had them since last week):mad:..(upset that she didn't tell me until last night)
She said the Dr told her they were "HIGH":eek: and NOT GOOD. I asked if she recalled numbers, but she didn't, she said she would try and get a copy from the Dr office....I asked if they said what the next step would be and of course they want to do ultrasound. I urged her to request scintigraphy and steer away from ultrasound....

She is not sure if they can afford the next test at this point.:( i sent her info on the Care card and other options i found on line back when we first spoke. She's hasn't applied for anything YET.
After a few more things were discussed I also mentioned "surrendering" her pup so that she could have the opportunity for survivial...:rolleyes: Should of kept my mouth shut, but i wanted her to know that as a last resort, and that she had an option....
She thanked me for all that I've done in sending her info and turning on to my Dr office for the BAT and said she didn't know what she was going to do, and that for now her pup didn't show any symptoms and that she was acting okay:(:confused:
When we hung up i got the feeling i overstepped my statement there, i said what i did because I just wanted her to know AS A LAST RESORT.
Please keep her pup in your prayers, I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling that action was going to happen quickly. I'm not sure if she will update me but i will ask my dear friend for updates since they work together ;)
I reminded her how her pups ALT shot up in a matter of 3 months and is now over 800. Fingers and PAWS crossed for her lil one...THANKS and if I hear anything I will update on here.

try to get the numbers as high to some vets is mvd so since no symptoms could still be that and low protein diet is all she needs - hopefully she will get the care she deserves - sadly like myself people do not prepare for what if the dog gets sick :( and then the dog suffers as cost of vet care is high. Let me know numbers and we can try to help - you can only lead a horse to water but if they do not drink nothing you can do and it was good you let her know there are options of surrrendering - I did the same thing on here had a ge buddy that had a liver shunt boy told her to surrender him if she was not going to do surgery and she didn't and when i pm her later he was dead it broke my heart and made me very sad as all she had to do was give him to a rescue to get the surgery but she did not have the money and i think was selfish and let him die rather than give him up which i felt was wrong :( I do not think she is on here anymore but it really upset me :(